Curse

arcanemacabre · Dec 08, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Guild Wars Prophecies - Leveling your character to 20 is not the main goal, but rather learning every step of the way so that you may be a better player, and overcome any obstacle. This was done through a progression of both story, ascension, small amounts of PvP (arenas), and enemies that increased in level and difficulty. The level progression of your character became pretty unimportant to gameplay when you reached the desert at about lvl 17-19, and was a non-issue once ascended.

Guild Wars Factions - This provided a much, much shorter window for learning and leveling. The importance of level was shown the exit as many were thrown to the "wolves" of level 20 content straight out of "school." Players who took their characters from prophecies weren't even aware there was pre-level-20 content until that area was opened up just to satisfy completion and eventually titles. Factions basically said "You are not your f***ing level," and even provided max gear for anyone straight from Lion's Arch so as to say "You are not your f***ing gear, either!"

Guild Wars Nightfall - Attempted to satisfy a middle ground, while allowing for options (ferry runs) to break the mold. Like Factions, most of the content was level 20, instead of the gradual increase in Prophecies. This and Factions solidified a sense that anything pre-level-20 was training only; the meat of the game, and where the game really starts is 20+.

This new change really emphasizes that line of thinking. It's a little akward, with the buffs and all, but it does carry the line of thinking that level is just a number.

roshanabey2 · Dec 08, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I don't have much of problem with them acessing these areas but i do have a problem with the buff, I think it is stupid basically meaning inexpericed players are good as expericed players

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 08, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

I'm not sure about it tbh. One scenario I can think of is potentially damaging to the game i.e. Get to level 10 easily at LA. Max armor at Boreal, hench it to the Ursan quest, wave a honey stick about get Ursan and then use that all the way thru the entire 3 games. IMHO theres something wrong about that picture.

arcady · Dec 08, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaythen Tyradel

Veteran players can get their newer characters to GW:EN and get access to newer skills/armor earlier. Newer players who want a challenge or hear about newer stuff from GW:EN can see if it is something they will like or not.

13 toons, 10 of them level 20. 3 are being 'held back' to game with my brothers, who don't play all that often and didn't have any level 20s.

Now all 13 have the basic 3 heroes from GW:EN, and a few skills bought in the Eye outpost. And one of my brother's has a toon there as well now.

I also play WoW - and I often feel that some of the servers there have a serious problem in that all of the zones under max-level have emptied out. If I try to get a friend to try out WoW, they face a ghost town on any of the servers that I have characters on...

One reasons for that is the much larger level span - 70 instead of 20 - creates a natural community divide. But there is also the problem that the higher level areas are completely divided away from the rest of the game.

GW:EN threatened to do that to GW as well. This "fix" is kind of spotty, but hopefully viable. Personally I think they would have been better off making Utopia rather than an expansion.

arcanemacabre · Dec 08, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

I'm not sure about it tbh. One scenario I can think of is potentially damaging to the game i.e. Get to level 10 easily at LA. Max armor at Boreal, hench it to the Ursan quest, wave a honey stick about get Ursan and then use that all the way thru the entire 3 games. IMHO theres something wrong about that picture.

It could sound equally bad by saying: "Grind it out to level 20, then [insert the rest of your post after level 10]." The problem with it is not the entrance to GW:EN at level 10, it's UB and all the other crappy PvE skills.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 08, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Thats true, but at least by level 20 one would hope someone had some idea as how to play their profession, would have had to fight in balanced way through most of the missions. Naive it may be but this way it becomes No skill>no time at all..

Just a thought, they put a level limit(17) on some Pve skills(kurzick ones I think), so maybe adding the same level limit to others(maybe they have already and my chars are too old to have noticed).

arcanemacabre · Dec 08, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

If they know to go get UB, and how to get it or any other game breaking PvE skills, they will likely know -enough- about the game already. If they don't, and are just being run, they could easily be power-leveled, too.

Symeon · Dec 08, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

The short answer to this whole issue is: ArenaNet needs more money.

CHunterX · Dec 08, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

It makes the game even easier. Not max level? Doesn't matter anymore! You get your stats boosted to max level until you actually reach it! You don't need to actually learn to play the game, we'll hand everything to you!
Hell, they even gave players a free max weapon. Next event will be giving out 1 full set of max armor from EotN, and the following event, everyone will get a choice of 5 free runes per character.

Toutatis · Dec 08, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I'm still a little unsure of lowering the level requirement for EN. Even with the buff given to level 10-19 characters, I don't know how this will ultimately affect the game or the players. Maybe it'll be good in the long run, or maybe it'll be a bad thing.

I guess it's a "wait and see" thing to see how things turn out.

Kityn · Dec 08, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Matters not to me really.
For those that have bought GW:EN and one of the Chapters for the first time. They have the chance to enjoy GW:EN without having to grind several hours or much more to reach level 20 just to play a game they have purchased.
Sure the game was for existing level 20 characters at first. But how would you feel if you could not play a game you have just purchased because of a level cap? Content is a differant matter and is something that should be acheived.
As for these new players of lower levels. Is it not better for these players to learn from the oldsters instead of trying to learn everything on thier own with no one to teach them at all? I am not talking about holding their hands. I am talking about being a teacher to a student. Of course there will be those that don't want to teach and those that don't want to learn. Personally I have no problems sharing my builds and tactics with others. And I have no problems learning from others.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 08, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

The short answer to this whole issue is: ArenaNet needs more money.

After the weekend (ok, two weekends) is over, it's not going to be earning them much. But in a nutshell, that combined with the "free GW:EN for x hours" deal is probably to show people who don't have GW:EN what they're missing... so yeah.

(Whether they like what they see is another story, but three or so months after release it's not really going to lose them sales.)

And this thread in a nutshell: Deja vu all over again - ArenaNet makes an immaterial change and people threaten to ragequit over it. Happens all the time to Blizzard, too.

gremlin · Dec 08, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I have always seen Gwen as a test stage for GW2 so anything in there is likely to be in tat game in some form or another.

It has been mooted for a while that some method of allowing multi level parties to function might be the way forward in PUG.

Its also been suggested that the city of heroes sidekick system should be used.
The Buffing of lvl 10s would seem to be just such an experiment.

I would rather they get such things right in gwen than need to mess about unnecessarily in GW2

rohara · Dec 08, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

care factor = 0

honestly, of all things to be peeved about...

freekedoutfish · Dec 08, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

Now all 13 have the basic 3 heroes from GW:EN, and a few skills bought in the Eye outpost. And one of my brother's has a toon there as well now.

.

Are those heroes still level 20 when you aquire them from GWEN with a lvl10?

If so, they could go back to the game they started in with a huge advantage of having a lvl 20 monks and a lvl20 elemental at just lvl10.

Does that seem fair?

There are some issues with allowing lvl10s into GWEN in the sense they are getting access to tools and equipment which will give them a huge edge at a lower level in earlier compains.

Again making the already easy normal mode, even easier. I'm just going to wait until people start saying "normal mode is even easier now that I have a lvl20 monk and ele hero to wipe most areas".

dont feel no pain · Dec 08, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Hmmmmm they should factionate guild wars, cant get anywhere without doing the stuff lol and you have to have completed the game to move onto another one

XD - yes flame me.

dont feel no pain · Dec 08, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

lets see

lvl 10 = 39,600
lvl 20 = 140,600

thats 101,000 needed

Getting There Quest - 2,500

First Quest Chain - 30,000 xp total
Worthy Deed Done Cheap - 15,000
Anything You Can Do - 15,000

2nd Quest Chain - 50,000 xp total
The Justiciar's End - 15,000
Turning the Page - 5,000
The Asura Trap - 7,500
Insidious Remnants - 10,000
Moths to a Flame - 12,500

Final Quest Chain - 15,000 xp total
Frogstomp - 5,000
Give Peace a Chance - 10,000

thier pretty close together too XD

time to get my lvl 5 rit to lvl 10 and go gwen

Saraphim · Dec 08, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

lets see

lvl 10 = 39,600
lvl 20 = 140,600

thats 101,000 needed

Getting There Quest - 2,500

First Quest Chain - 30,000 xp total
Worthy Deed Done Cheap - 15,000
Anything You Can Do - 15,000

2nd Quest Chain - 50,000 xp total
The Justiciar's End - 15,000
Turning the Page - 5,000
The Asura Trap - 7,500
Insidious Remnants - 10,000
Moths to a Flame - 12,500

Final Quest Chain - 15,000 xp total
Frogstomp - 5,000
Give Peace a Chance - 10,000

thier pretty close together too XD

time to get my lvl 5 rit to lvl 10 and go gwen

You don't even need to do that many. I took my lvl 13 (secondary) ele there yesterday. She was lvl 20 within a couple of hours. All it took was two quests and a few fights with Kilroy. I don't care what other people think of that, I know what I'm doing. I've been playing my main ele for almost two years got all E/Me skills from all campaigns unlocked on her, all elites for all profs from Cantha and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who's done that this weekend.

Weirdly enough, although I don't normally pug I've offered to help a few lower lvls out in GW:EN this weekend, at least they're getting there under their own steam and not paying for runs and wearing starter armour.

Jongo River · Dec 08, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

There are some issues with allowing lvl10s into GWEN in the sense they are getting access to tools and equipment which will give them a huge edge at a lower level in earlier compains.

This isn't really any different to the way Factions allowed max armour for Prophecies characters, earlier than they would otherwise have obtained it, or Nightfall making both the previous campaigns easier with heroes.

And that's all on top of being able to hand-down weapons from previous toons or even use /bonus items - so really, how many long time players have been playing those newbie areas as originally intended, anyway?

fenix · Dec 08, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Not enough bought EOTN, so now they're opening it up for level 10's in the hope that they'll make more money. Wishful thinking, because the game still sucks.

Doesn't worry me, I never pug, and the level 10's won't get teams.