Curse

Fitz Rinley · Dec 13, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Well, for those interested:

One of my several complaints of unfairness has always been the gap in opportunity between PvP and PvE for skills acquisition. A halfway decent PvP player can open a build a day, or better. They have fewer skills to open, because of not having any need or use for PvE only skills. They get preferential treatment with Balthazar Faction so they do not have to take the time to open skills in PvE, or ever set foot in it.

However, if a PvE player has one character of each class, in order to open all class specific skills on those characters they must acquire thru: gold, faction, or quest: 1,807 skill openings. This does not count opening any support skills from secondary classes. At generally a k per skill, one could easily estimate a need for 2,000,000 gold just for skills, plus faction and reputation work. That does not count gold needed for armor, etc.

I still feel, that if a character opens a skill in PvP then it should be open for that account (heroes) and for that character (PvP or PvE). As it is, I can purchase all my skills open for PvP, but still need to have spent about 2 million in gold to get the skills I need, and that still wont open Elite skills which I have to go and find.

MMSDome · Dec 13, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

when you think about it yes it does seem like alot of money but must people get the skills along the way, not all at once. You acquire money and buy skills as you play and if you want extra, work harder for it.

Pyro maniac · Dec 13, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

tomes go for 300-500g

and luckily, there alot of crap skills you don't have to buy

Esprit · Dec 13, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

PvP players earn faction through playing.
You use faction to buy skills.
PvP players need 3,000 faction to buy an elite.

PvE players earn money through playing.
You use money to buy skills.
PvE players need to kill a boss to get an elite skill.

PvP and PvE players earn faction and money over time to get the skills they need. I don't see where faction comes in for PvE players or repuation.

I don't see the disparity.

Seraphic Divinity · Dec 13, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

PvP players earn faction through playing.
You use faction to buy skills.
PvP players need 3,000 faction to buy an elite.

PvE players earn money through playing.
You use money to buy skills.
PvE players need to kill a boss to get an elite skill.

PvP and PvE players earn faction and money over time to get the skills they need. I don't see where faction comes in for PvE players or repuation.

I don't see the disparity.

he's just mad because he's trying to pvp with his char. and whenever his team says he needs skill X he says "brb to go to kaineng center to get that skill" and they're all like "lol you're using a pve char. nub"

Selket · Dec 13, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

pretty sure no one cares if you use a pve character

Bryant Again · Dec 13, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

pretty sure no one cares if you use a pve character

Depends on the armor you're wearing. If you got something expensive, they might go for you to "school deh PvEr." Of course, this only applies to idiots.

Kook~NBK~ · Dec 13, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I still feel, that if a character opens a skill in PvP then it should be open for that account (heroes) and for that character (PvP or PvE). As it is, I can purchase all my skills open for PvP, but still need to have spent about 2 million in gold to get the skills I need, and that still wont open Elite skills which I have to go and find.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you unlock a skill on your account, via PvE or PvP, doesn't that skill becomes available for use by heroes? Nevermind, gonna go find out for myself. Stay tuned!

Inger · Dec 14, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you unlock a skill on your account, via PvE or PvP, doesn't that skill becomes available for use by heroes? Nevermind, gonna go find out for myself. Stay tuned!

yes when you unlock a skill via pvp, it becomes unlocked for the account. Thus all heroes on any character can use the unlocked skill and any skill trainer in the campaign that the skill came from will now have that skill for sale.

Phoenix Tears · Dec 14, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

anet should jhave had given to the quests of FA/NF/EotN also Skill Rewards, like in Proph .. thats one of the first changes since FA, that sucks most and made out of GW Grind Wars, btw Farm Wars

Who has more gold has more Skills theoretically oO well made Anet <.<

combatchuck · Dec 14, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Depends on the armor you're wearing. If you got something expensive, they might go for you to "school deh PvEr." Of course, this only applies to idiots.

I get that a lot in my monk wearing Obsidian. They shut up when they see that I have some idea of what I'm doing.

Tyla · Dec 14, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Depends on the armor you're wearing. If you got something expensive, they might go for you to "school deh PvEr." Of course, this only applies to idiots.

lol yeah, my ranger got bullied for that then straight after zaishen(i was in HA) i interrupted like a PD mesmer gone mad!!

You can't see me · Dec 14, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

I disagree. You can earn skills in PvE as easily as PvP. Doing PvP, you accumulate Balthazar Faction. That gives you skills.

In PvE, you accumulate drops, which sell for money, which buys you skills.

I really don't see the problem with that system.

Edit- Not to mention Tomes, a cheaper and very easy alternative.

Savio · Dec 14, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

anet should jhave had given to the quests of FA/NF/EotN also Skill Rewards, like in Proph .. thats one of the first changes since FA, that sucks most and made out of GW Grind Wars, btw Farm Wars

Well, skill quests are a mixed bag; you could get a useful skill like Executioner's Strike, or you could end up with Power Attack. It doesn't matter that you want to get Rush, you won't ever get it from a skill quest. That was their main flaw: it forced everyone to get the same skills.

With Factions onward, you got increased skill points and gold, which was supposed to let you make your own choices with skills. However, as the gold rewards were low and everyone blows the gold on useless things, people ended up with lots of skill points and no gold. Nightfall attempted to rectify this with hero skill points, but those were few and far between, and you couldn't buy all skills or cap sigs with them.

A solution would have been to make buying skills only cost skill points, with extra skill points available for 1k each (or alternatively make cap sigs cost 1k on top of the skill point.)

Back to the OP:
PvE characters are supposed to take time and money to develop, that's the whole concept of PvE. Besides, if you want to make a PvP-ready character, you only need a handful of skills, as there aren't exactly a lot of skills you'd use in PvP.

ensoriki · Dec 14, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I got hit with a 113 damage power attack from a hammer warrior.
Stop bitchin on the skill cus it made me sad.

Quote:

solution would have been to make buying skills only cost skill points, with extra skill points available for 1k each (or alternatively make cap sigs cost 1k on top of the skill point.)

Sorry Savio.
But your idea has now been /signed

5 skill points a skill!

Snow Bunny · Dec 14, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Well, for those interested:

One of my several complaints of unfairness has always been the gap in opportunity between PvP and PvE for skills acquisition. A halfway decent PvP player can open a build a day, or better. They have fewer skills to open, because of not having any need or use for PvE only skills. They get preferential treatment with Balthazar Faction so they do not have to take the time to open skills in PvE, or ever set foot in it.

However, if a PvE player has one character of each class, in order to open all class specific skills on those characters they must acquire thru: gold, faction, or quest: 1,807 skill openings. This does not count opening any support skills from secondary classes. At generally a k per skill, one could easily estimate a need for 2,000,000 gold just for skills, plus faction and reputation work. That does not count gold needed for armor, etc.

I still feel, that if a character opens a skill in PvP then it should be open for that account (heroes) and for that character (PvP or PvE). As it is, I can purchase all my skills open for PvP, but still need to have spent about 2 million in gold to get the skills I need, and that still wont open Elite skills which I have to go and find.

Pvpers have to roll some many more builds than PvErs, if only because 99% of anything works in PvE, but PvP changes per engagement

Kook~NBK~ · Dec 14, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

... if only because 99% of anything works in PvE,

Ahh, if only that were true! There wouldn't be all the "PUGs suck!" threads around here!

HawkofStorms · Dec 14, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Pvpers have to roll some many more builds than PvErs, if only because 99% of anything works in PvE, but PvP changes per engagement

Right... that is why a Zergway IWAY warrior can get rank 3 with only 8 skills unlocked right?

I agree pretty much anything works in PvE. The only reason a PvEer would "need" more skills is in order to accurately equip heroes.

Lets face it, PvP players only needs a certain set number of skills in order to play whatever cookie cutter build they want to play. The only time a PvP really has to change his/her bar is when he a) switches areas (because obviously a FA build is different from an RA build is different from a HA build) or b) a major nerf/buff completely changes the metagame (which happens... what? once every 6 months or whenever a new campaign comes out).
Otherwise, the same 8-10 skills can be used over and over again to play HA because everybody runs the same dang thing in PUGs.

Snow Bunny · Dec 14, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Sometimes you're running an axe warrior, sometimes a hammer warrior, sometimes a sword warrior, sometimes a snare ele, sometimes a spike ele, I mean, I could go on, but the fact remains, you are rerolling constantly for balanced builds and the like.

unienaule · Dec 14, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Well, I see two things wrong with the OP.
1) You don't NEED all of those skills.
2) You make the assumption that PvP characters and PvE are the same thing and should be balanced accordingly. Well, PvP characters can't play campaigns, do elite missions, etc, so they have limited use compared to PvE characters.