Curse

TaCktiX · Dec 28, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Number one failing to GW:EN's dungeons: the loot sucks. Even on the preview weekend, I was getting worse drops in dungeons than I did outside of them. I have the most pathetically atrocious luck I know of, and imagining it getting worse is rather hard to fathom. And yet it does. My only spot of luck is the number of Onyx Gemstones I pulled out of Hidden Treasures and end chests (10 so far). And those are only worth something if you want a Destroyer weapon or like selling.

I will stand by the earlier person who posted that end chests should drop rare materials, req9 or perfect mod golds, and greens.

And during-dungeon drops are even worse, even in HM. I know that Hidden Treasures really stink on level 1 so that people don't non-quest farm, but the scads of non-max whites is rather disturbing. If ANet's so worried about destabilizing the game economy in other chapters by letting their high-value skins drop in dungeons, why not add a dungeon-exclusive drop that benefits towards other GW:EN stuff (like armor, consumables, weapons), and nothing else?

/Rant

Juhanah · Dec 28, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I find that the Sorrow furnace is still more fun than any EotN dungeons. In the furnace you have multiple quests with very different objectives and stories that bring you to different locations inside the place.

There's no puzzle beside moving the gears from door to door but at least you feel like your doing something other than just killing your way to the boss in a straight line. And the last battle is a lot more Epic than any other EotN dungeon boss battle.

I wish yhat in GW2 the dungeons will look a lot more like the Sorrow Furnace than EotN ones. With lots of puzzle added. Even if they are really hard puzzles, it will only take a day before they are on the wiki for the people who can't manage to solve them. Better story about reason to go in said dungeon is also needed imo.. The "go kill this bad guy" gets kinda boring after the second time. Chain of quests that lead you to doing the dungeon would add a lot of fun too.

Been a while i haven't played WoW but one of my favorite thing was all the quest around Ahn'Qiraj. It required a huge server-wide quest to open it and by doing the normal side quest in the surrounding maps you had the feeling something bad was happening in this dungeon. The more of these little side quests you were doing, the more you wanted to go in this dungeon. And when you first entered Silithus, where the dungeon is located, your mind was set "next stop, Ahn'Qiraj!". I never got to do the dungeon because Nightfall came out but it's the kind of thing that can help make a dungeon look Epic before you even enter it.

mazey vorstagg · Dec 28, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I agree with the above poster about SF. The use of quests so each run to the dungeon isn't just a "beat the Iron Forgemen and get chest" affair. Also, there are good greens and unlocked chests that make a run loot worthy.

Sorrow's Furnace is a really good example of a Free Roam dungeon, unlike Oola's Lab mission which is a linear dungeon. Both are good fun, although approached differently.

the only thing that SF could do with is more "events" like wow. For instance, when you meet Galigord Stonestrike he could say:
"Stone Summit! To arms! to arms! We shall drive these interlopers from our stronghold!"
And when you kill him he could say:
"fools! you may have beaten me, but our great lord will crush you flat!"
It would just make it feel like you're actually there, interacting with these Stone Summit.
Also, I wish there was a chest at the end of SF.

Keep posting people

zwei2stein · Dec 28, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Basically more interaction from mobs, other than shout text bubles.

Zeek Aran · Dec 28, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Wow, thanks for explaining an in detail answer to my question I never asked, "why do GW dungeons suck?"

Bryant Again · Dec 28, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

The thing that really turned me off from the "dungeons", if they can be called such, is the copy-pasting of templated areas. I don't care what excuse you have for that, it just utterly sucks. It really ruins the immersion and authenticity. Sigh.

That aside, very cool post. And the Zelda comparison actually fit, well done!

I also agree with King Seymon's post about lewt and rewards. Regardless of what people think, awesome rewards *really* make it fun.

deya · Dec 28, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I like EoTN way more than rest of GW PvE - inlcuding dungeons.

jackie · Dec 28, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Aye, add few unique boss drops (minipets, anything) and you have a playerbase that's eager to go explore those caverns again.

You can't see me · Dec 28, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

What's the use of more PvE high end loot? Then Arenanet will make it available for 5k balthazar faction and it will go the same place as the Runic Blade and the Stygian Reaver.

But on a brighter note, I agree. The GW:EN dungeons were poorly done if they were supposed to be different from the rest of the game. Urgoz had far more appeal than these dungeons because at least it was a tad unorthadox IMO. Now it's just your basic Tank & Gank. Maybe we'll see improvement, who knows?

Orange Milk · Dec 28, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

It's PvE of course it's "Kill everything" thats what ya do in PvE.

Yes Puzzles are nice, in a single player non-repeatable game, but once you've done the dungeon, now you know the puzzle, whoo hoo how fun is it the next time, or how fun is it if you doing it with guildies who have already done it and solve the puzzle for you? How many "spoiler" threads would there be?

And yes, too many Greens in the world, I remeber almost pissin my pants when I bought a Green bow back in Ascolon City cause it was a perfect max req 9. Now with inscriptions and the over abundance of HM farming those are easy to make. Plus yeah, most of them are not even rare skins any more. Green Flat bows have the same Skin as a Long bow ya can't tell them apart, bah.

Zinger314 · Dec 28, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Puzzles in ORPGs (for political genre correctness) aren't a good idea. While some element besides killing in dungeons can alleviate the tension (in WoW, certain quests require attention to other details within the dungeon), puzzles such as the two puzzles in Dasha Vestibule (lore quiz and multiplication puzzle, the latter of which had no indication how to solve) break the mood and tension.

It's psychology, more or less.

I agree with the previous comment that Sorrow's Furnace is a dungeon done right.

Zeek Aran · Dec 28, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The thing that really turned me off from the "dungeons", if they can be called such, is the copy-pasting of templated areas. I don't care what excuse you have for that, it just utterly sucks. It really ruins the immersion and authenticity. Sigh.

That aside, very cool post. And the Zelda comparison actually fit, well done!

I also agree with King Seymon's post about lewt and rewards. Regardless of what people think, awesome rewards *really* make it fun.

Recycled pixels are the basis of GWEN. I saved up 3 stacks of every common mat before GWEN came out, because I'm an armor whoar, and I haven't wanted a single set. >-<

I haven't seen a single green I've wanted. All the stats are all bloody generic as every other green in this game.

The multiplication puzzle in Dasha was easy enough for a third grader. Not Goren, though. Zelda like puzzles would be nice.

Buster · Dec 28, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I got alot of diamonds and onyx gems as rewards from the dungeons so I can't complain about the rewards. I know at times it is disappointing when you do a more difficult dungeon and you wind up with something not so good as a reward but that is just part of the game.

I agree with some of you that mentioned Sorrows Furnace. One of the best places in Prochecies to go to. It is a shame they didn't do more areas like SF. Lots of boss types and good greens droped there at one time, heck it was just totally fun just exploring it and doing the quests there. I hope in GW2 they make more areas like this. I'm sure it would be a big hit with everyone.

Alias_X · Dec 28, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I totally agree with you. However, wouldn't all of the puzzles be figured out and posted on the Wiki, eliminating their true intentions? Maybe the first time through everyone would have to figure stuff out, then people would start to only party with those who know what they are doing, specialist builds to accomplish certain tasks would be figured out and people would need to run those, and then, there really wouldn't be a puzzle.

Zeek Aran · Dec 28, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alias_X

I totally agree with you. However, wouldn't all of the puzzles be figured out and posted on the Wiki, eliminating their true intentions? Maybe the first time through everyone would have to figure stuff out, then people would start to only party with those who know what they are doing, specialist builds to accomplish certain tasks would be figured out and people would need to run those, and then, there really wouldn't be a puzzle.

That's how all games are. gamefaq.com will get you through any console game. Besides this point, they could randomize certain puzzles to appear or not appear, or how they are worked.

zamial · Dec 29, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

The dungeons were a let down to some extent. The re-playability was defiantly lacking, They were really cool the 1st time through and after that....

(This is were I put on the asbestos suit)

The Deldrimor title track and the light of Deldrimor should have worked differently, I think the title track should have stayed at level 1 until all the dungeons were beaten in NM. Then it should have gone up to level 2. The only way to increase the title level should be to complete all the dungeons at your current level. 1-5 NM/ 6-10 HM. With a Boss in each levels "end area".
The light of deldrimor should have "opened" a hidden area a whole lot larger than the hidden areas we have now, on every level(floor) of the dungeon. This should have worked like a chain. You need to be in level 2 "hidden area" to get to level 3 "hidden area". The areas should only open to the lowest party members current Deldrimor title. IE. If you are level 5 and Joe is level 3 you will only be able to access Joe's level in the dungeon, if he is in your party.
This would have given greater re-playability to every dungeon.

They also were missing random patrols, and maybe even a random boss.

The reusing of area maps and the readily avalibility of a map that shows the way was unnecessary. Maps should have been a random monster drop not lying on the floor.

I was hoping for a massive dungeons instead of mini area, like 5+ sorrower's Furnaces stacked on top of each other.

Sticky · Dec 29, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Got to add aswell, UW and FoW are dungeons to a degree, and we still play them after 2 and half years. Ive never had particuarly high gold drops, yeti have gone in a few times recently just for the fun and ectos of it. Like SF they arnt just a 'kill in a straight line' affair with some dire reward at the end.

Im afraid to say aswell, i do at least 2 dungeons a week with my guild, just for the fun of hunting with guildies. Its the only time i step into dungeons. I cant be doing with solo'ing dungeons they are boring as snot solo (and with most pugs tbh). Theres just no inclination to do it. I havent had a green or better than req 12 item in the last 12-15 dungeons that ive done (i admit thats bad luck, REALY bad luck). Why do i want to do it again? Especially the more out of reach dungeons that take extra time to get to? Unless doing them for the fun of hunting with guildies, they just dont intrest me.

Pandora's box · Dec 29, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

The only reason to replay dungeons is: reward. Without proper reward the replayabilltiy of whatever dungeon is as much as zero. I would not care about repetitive levels or challenging puzzles or random area's as long as at the end a huge treasure box with loot is waiting

Give me 3 levels dungeons which play like Badhok Caverns, with a treasure box that will always open at the end, and I would be completely happy to replay them every day!

Arduin · Dec 29, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

When Anet anounced the 18 dungeons in GW:EN, I expected them to be like Sorrow's Furnace. Funny quests, witty dialogues and special loot. I'm a bit disappointed about GW:EN's dungeon's, there is no incentive to venture to them again after you've completed them all in Hm.

Nevin · Dec 29, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I made a thread in the suggestion portion of this forum before about this. My idea was to bring in the professions for an added diversity. I'll give some short examples.

Theres a gate that requires to suffer 200 points of fire damage and 10 seconds of burning to be opened, so your team makes sure to bring a nuker Elementalist (Or some dude with fire weps, but you get the point.)

Theres traps that everyone is none to wiser to but Assassins, for them a small swirly icon appears, and the activation of a special skill can disarm them.

After a few bouts of running in circles and throwing everything at the boss to try and defeat it, the Mesmer steps in. Using a special "reveal" skill, small swirly markers appear on columns in the environment. Which the party now identifies as destructible and capable of damaging the boss. Upon the boss being knocked down to the ground, a weak spot in his armor is revealed, attacking from this angle is capable of dealing armor ignoring damage.

A switch lays high up and above a gigantic pit, seemingly no one can reach it.
Luckily the Ranger's longbow can. (This of course could easily be done by another profession with a longbow, /broken idea)

Now yes I realize these are broken, and force specific profession play and what not. Basically what I mean to say is that these would never work out in GW1, GW1 was made on quicksand. The more it struggled to advance and introduce new game mechanics, the quicker it sank.

Hopefully with GW2, a much wider selection of mechanics will be readily available. So maybe you can't just bring some doofy wammo with a fire weapon to replicate the ele. Or just someone with an assassin secondary to detect traps. And you know what? When people fire bows and have no marksmanship, they shouldn't hit their target. Why isn't there a 75% chance to miss? So as you can see, GW 1 simply would struggle too much, it's player basis is used to how it is and unwilling to make drastic changes.