Curse

Saraphim · Dec 29, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

Because it was clear that it could be, not that it would be. Anet never made a commitment on this, either way (still hasn't, really).

True, but no effort was made by Anet or Gaile to clarify that at the time, and there was a huge amount of people (on both sides) who were assuming that the "limited time" promotion wasn't going to be offered again - hence all the petitions and requests for it to be so. Let's face it, it benefited Anet / NCSoft to get as many people to spend as much as possible in the online store, and having a "limited time" promotion is bound to encourage people to do that.

It's all about marketing, I don't buy this "It's a thank you to people who buy from the online store", it's a way to try and get them to spend the money in the first place. If it was a "thank you" it would've been added retroactively to anyone who had used the online store in the past, without trumpeting it as a promotion, and setting a time limit on it.

Aaaaaand once again, before I get the usual Jackass / Asshat comments I'll say I'm not bothered about it being re-released / promoted whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

Ashantara · Dec 29, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

C'mon guys, let's face it:

The BMP promotion thingie didn't went as well as ArenaNet had hoped for (due to payment issues in many countries), and now they are looking for a way to re-release the whole thing for financial reasons.

It's fine with me! I own a credit card, I bought Eye of the North online and I already have the BMP. Still, I do understand some people's anger, because the promotional offer did sound exclusive -- denying it now is pointless.

CHannum · Dec 30, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashantara

the promotional offer did sound exclusive -- denying it now is pointless.

I'm going to beat this dead horse once more...

I came into GW shortly after the promotion ended. I found out about the BMP because the promotional web page for it is still there under the products part of the official website. Since, one, the promotional page was still up and prominently and, two, nowhere was any sort of limited time only exclusive availability of the BMP itself part of it, I came onto the forums initially looking for information about if the promotion had been extended or if anyone knew of an alternative means of getting it. Only in the forums did I learn that anyone had been <insert word of choice here> enough to think it was a one time only deal and I was genuinely saddened at the complete lack of maturity on the parts of the most vocal posters, which were at best gloating, and often cruel and ridiculing anyone who had the audacity to think they should ever be able to obtain the BMP again.

So, while I understand the frustration on the part of anyone who spent money "involuntarily" in order to obtain the BMP at its initial release, I do not understand why that frustation is aimed at any one but the mistaken purchaser. At no point did I ever look at their promotion and think they were talking about a one time release because it does not so much as imply such a thing. It did not sound exclusive and claiming it ever did is what's pointless, particularly now, because, whether it should have come now or six months ago, the exact position of Anet regarding the non-exclusivisity of the BMP is not just painfully clear, it's undeniably clear.

Besides, as I've posted elsewhere, you can look at their current holiday promotion and work out exactly what Anet likely considers its cash value ($15). At the worst, someone overpaid $15 for the BMP by assuming things that were never claimed. If $15 is really worth all this crying and whining, someone needs to get out more

Vl Vl D · Dec 30, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop of Fear

then why u didnt buy the slots when the bmp was running?

credit card. debit card. parents' credit card. gift card. prepaid web cards... cmon no excuses

Well put mate, but it would seem to get what you want we should act like children so here goes.

I think its sucks that bmp will available again while divine aura is not.
You see guild wars was a 25th birthday gift to me in may of 2005 from my wife who also brought the game to be my personal monk and before this I didnt play online games little alone games like most other children.

Because of this I feel anet didnt do a good enough job advertising on TV, my local newspaper or a door to door sales rep, who I probably wouldve told to nick off.

So come on anet make some cash out of us children and sell me what I want.

Loviatar · Dec 30, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

I'm going to beat this dead horse once more...

then so will i with the real exact details you can verify

Quote:

nowhere was any sort of limited time only exclusive availability of the BMP itself part of it, I came onto the forums initially looking for information about if the promotion had been extended or if anyone knew of an alternative means of getting it. Only in the forums did I learn that anyone had been <insert word of choice here> enough to think it was a one time only deal

Quote:

The Details

The Bonus Mission Pack will release in November. This promotion is non-transferable and is limited to one per account. The Bonus Pack will only be available to the exact account that fulfills this promotion in the in-game store or the exact account on which a qualifying Guild Wars product is activated that has been purchased in the PlayNC store.

Bonus Pack/ exact account /fulfills this promotion (no wiggle room there at all and their legal staff etc checked it carefully

not promotion but BONUS PACK

look carefully and note 2 things.

1 there was not one single official word from ANET/NCSOFT that there was or would ever be any alternative to the promotion offered. AND WE STILL DONT KNOW NOW SO HOW COULD WE KNOW WAY BACK THEN?

2. the quoted official details stated that the mission pack will go only to the exact accounts that qualified and the FAQ states to avoid any key confusion the BMP will be added to the qualifying account automatically

so, specified exact conditions along with no other possible stated/hinted way to get it except the promotion is why all of us word of choices think no repeat

Quote:

and I was genuinely saddened at the complete lack of maturity on the parts of the most vocal posters, which were at best gloating, and often cruel and ridiculing anyone who had the audacity to think they should ever be able to obtain the BMP again.

you were not here but for your information the most vocal gimmie it now posters were telling me and the others who were spending money to qualify how stupid we were for wasting our money because it would be crap and they were smart enough to avoid wasting money.

so you might see that a bit of gloating is being returned for the promotiom months of taunts from the i want those weapons group of converts which started 5 minutes after the screenshots went up

Shakti · Dec 30, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

I'm going to beat this dead horse once more...
... Only in the forums did I learn that anyone had been <insert word of choice here> enough to think it was a one time only deal and I was genuinely saddened at the complete lack of maturity on the parts of the most vocal posters, which were at best gloating, and often cruel and ridiculing anyone who had the audacity to think they should ever be able to obtain the BMP again.

Now, I'm kinda over the whole bmp debate tbh. It's gotten ugly and is rather pointless at this point imho. However, I must back up Lovitar ^^ when he says how mean BOTH sides were back at the beginning. Aside from the rude/ridiculing posts, I actually got IN GAME PMS from more than one person (or could've been same asshat on 2 accts who knows lol) insulting me, calling me everything in the book, F-ing RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO this etc, because I did the promo specifically to get bmp. We were insulted for trusting Anets quality, called stupid fangirls etc. Now, yes, that person or persons (u know who you are) was likely a frustrated 12 year old, but still. After recieving that kind of abuse then watching things switch so fast you'd get whiplash as soon as the screenies of the skins were posted....? Can't blame us for a bit of neener neenering.

Jongo River · Dec 30, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

there was not one single official word from ANET/NCSOFT that there was or would ever be any alternative to the promotion offered. AND WE STILL DONT KNOW NOW SO HOW COULD WE KNOW WAY BACK THEN?

Like there were not 2 sides to that? I and others always expected the BMP was not intended to be exclusive. I can't count the number of times I've refuted the CE comparison with mention of the GotYE weapon pack, that the offer struck me as more similar to.

Threads on this matter haven't been happy little havens of simple misunderstanding - it hasn't been a long-running case of "I think it's exclusive", "Oh, yes, so do I". There have been pretty fierce arguments and ANet didn't bother to correct *either* side. I'll certainly agree that it would have been helpful if ANet clarified this issue sooner, but I think your problem, Loviatar, is that you were so busy spamming your own arguments, you never realised there was another point of view.

Saraphim · Dec 30, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

I agree on the Divine Aura and other CE collectables** tbh.
Also, worth mentioning here's the blurb from the Guild Wars: Collector's Edition

Quote:

* Guild Wars - Collectors Edition includes:
* Guild Wars - The Game
* Guild Wars Music Sound Track
* Guild Wars Full Color Art Book
* Headset
* EXCLUSIVE * in Game Item "Divine Aura"

Now, I got this info from play.com, but I'd lay odds that the same text is in whatever marketing there was for it then, and possibly even the box itself. Maybe someone could confirm that. For what it's worth my opinion is that no the DA and signature dances shouldn't be offered again, and no I don't have the DA. I wouldn't mind some glowy hands for my main ele who's never had any CE love.. but it aint gonna happen unless I'm lucky enough to find a boxed copy gathering dust somewhere.

You can be assured that the legal department at Arena.net / NCSoft went through that BMP promo with a fine tooth comb to make sure they could offer it again if they wanted to. So it's all a bit moot really...

*my emphasis.
** mini pets can be sold ingame, but they shouldn't be sold in the store.

CHannum · Dec 30, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

then so will i with the real exact details you can verify

I've been pointing out those details meant it wasn't an exclusive release, only limiting getting it free to the account that made the qualifying purchase, before GG finally put the nail in people's wild delusions. It was clear to me. It never even crossed my mind that small print, badly worded or not, could EVER mean it was a limited release if that was the only place in the promotion it was mentioned and it was mentioned ONLY in the context of which account got BMP access.

Like I said earlier, we're not ignorant islanders, we've read or heard ad copy hundreds of thousands of times by the time we're in our teens. For most adults, it's well over a million ads they've processed (for many, millions). Anyone who thinks that even an incompetent company would bury the details about the excluvisity of something like the BMP in the small print about you not being able to get the BMP on another account than the one that made the ingame store purchase IS <insert word of your choice here>.

You're not just beating a dead horse, you're giving it mouth to mouth and hoping no one will notice all that's left is bones. That text never meant what *you* incorrectly *wished* it did, it never will. This whole thing is a great example of memes. There is no reason to have assumed a one time only release. Sure, without any other confirmed future release, I can believe some reading competent individuals still went ahead and made a purchase they didn't entirely want in order to make sure they got the BMP. That's an entirely different story from the very vocal percentage on this forum that not only came to a completely incorrect belief about the BMP, believed that their wrong belief was actually confirmed and reinforced their wrongness through mutual support in the forums.

Edge Martinez · Dec 30, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Dang. Such heated talks. Maybe one day I'll actually give the BMP a try. Ah well, AB/RA awaits.

Also, as someone with the BMP, I hope ANet makes it available to those who don't have it. Doesn't affect me in the least, even if they gave it away for free now.

Slickriptide · Jan 04, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Anet doesn't have an official forum so I don't read GW forums except infrequently. My perspective on this went uncolored by any news about it except what was posted on the Guild Wars website.

My initial reaction was "This is an attempt to drum up business at the online store." I wondered about the exclusivity of the BMP, but the idea of it being exclusive or not never entered into my decision. My decision to buy was made because the BMP was being pitched as a free bonus for spending $29 at the store and GW:EN, that I was going to buy anyway, was conveniently priced at $30. This could hardly have been considered a coincidence.

My decison was, thus, "Spend $30 at Gamestop and get a CD and manual that I'll probably lose within a week because I'll never look at or use them again, or buy online and finally learn what happened to Gwen?" That was pretty much a no-brainer.

Now, did I think it was exclusive? I'd have to say that I wondered, but I'd also say that it didn't really matter, and it also didn't really seem all that probable if I thought hard about it. Exclusives are usually given out to promote a particular release. The BMP was being given out to promote the online store. It was simply good marketing that the purchase of GW:EN at the online store happened to completely fulfill the requirements of the promotion. That fact didn't make the promotion a GW:EN promotion.

In short, I made my decision because it was free, not because it was "exclusive". Reading the promotion copy today, I can certainly see where Gaille's coming from. It says "free mission pack", not "exclusive limited time bonus". A free mission pack is exactly what I got and what I expected. I have no problem with someone else being able to purchase it in the store. I still got it free.

The one thing I WILL say is that it ought to have been offered standalone from the outset if that was the plan. If someone didn't want GW:EN or they found out about the promotion after they had purchased it, then the only known way to acquire the BMP at that point would be to spend $29 in the store on things that the player would probably not have purchased otherwise. In essence, that player would have been buying the BMP and getting the extra slots or tee-shirt or whatever as a "free bonus". I'd hardly blame that player for feeling like Anet had taken advantage of him by forcing his hand with a limited time promotion and no announcements that it would ever be made available again.

That seems to be what people are really complaining about. Not a statement by Anet that the BMP was a limited-time item. Rather, the lack of a stated alternative caused a lot of people to make undesired purchases based on the possibility that it would be the only opportunity to ever acquire the BMP. They were covering their bases. Most of the complainers just don't think of it in those terms, is all. In their heads they turn "It might have been my only chance and I didn't dare miss that chance" to "It was supposed be the only chance, that's what justified my purchase".

To the extent that Anet left the matter ambiguous to promote sales (let's not kid ourselves, some marketing guy at Anet made that decision. They're not stupid.) they're culpable for the misunderstanding. Hopefully they'll learn from the ill will generated by that decision and make future promotions with a greater degree of clarity about the current and future availability of the promotional item.

CE Devilman · Jan 04, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

no ty to BMP...I got plenty

Saraphim · Jan 04, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

It's all a conspiracy:

Bonus Mission Pack - Abbrv = BMP
Mini Polar Bear - Abbrv= MPB

maraxusofk · Jan 04, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

It's all about marketing, I don't buy this "It's a thank you to people who buy from the online store", it's a way to try and get them to spend the money in the first place. If it was a "thank you" it would've been added retroactively to anyone who had used the online store in the past, without trumpeting it as a promotion, and setting a time limit on it.

QFT

coudlnt have said it better myself m8

Dryndalyn · Jan 05, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrelsalight

I'm a little puzzled as to why, if it was so glaringly obvious that the BMP would be available after the promotional period, that was never stated point blank during the initial uproar...?

To me, it was glaringly obvious that it would most likely get sold later. This is probably because I am older and have experienced this type of marketing to be the norm in the business world. Marketers are extremely careful about wording and of course do what they can to promote their products. It would be foolish not to. But what is wrong with their goal?

You want to support Anet don’t you? You want to continue having an excellent product that is not pay-to-play right? Then what is wrong with supporting them in anyway that you can? For the most part this means purchasing things from them.

Were you really ripped off?

You paid some money and received both your purchase plus the BMP. Now you are upset because other people will later pay some money and only get the BMP.

You have two products for the price of one. Even if you would not have purchased those extra character slots if you knew the BMP would be available later, you still have character slots that are useful and can be used as storage if you don’t want to play them. This is still better, or at the very least equal to what the people who buy the BMP later get, which is nothing except for the BMP. Plus, you received everything earlier than most, so you still have the better deal in the long run.

So what is the gripe? What exactly do you lose if others buy the BMP?

I think you lose this:

“Ha, ha! Look at me everyone who doesn’t have the pack – look what I got and you can’t have it! Nanner nanner nanner!”

On the flip side, what do those thousands of fans who buy the BMP later with no fringe benefits get from this arrangement?

They gain a chance to understand the history of key NPC figures which will most undoubtedly be the foundations for GW2. They gain excellent stories and more good work from Anet, increasing the appreciation (and population) of this game and the work that the people behind the scenes do. In addition, they put forth more money to help support the Guild Wars industry so that we can continue to enjoy this wonderful non-pay-to-play game that we all love.

I see it as a win-win situation for both the fans and for Anet.

quickmonty · Jan 05, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

meh .....

It's okay as it is ... a free promotional item, but I don't think it's worth much as a "for sale" item.

Let everyone have it. I'm sure there will be complaints about being "ripped off" if they do offer it for a price.

strcpy · Jan 05, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickriptide

Rather, the lack of a stated alternative caused a lot of people to make undesired purchases based on the possibility that it would be the only opportunity to ever acquire the BMP.

It wasn't the lack of a stated alternative that caused me to believe it, it was that their wording was identical to all the other times that they did an exclusive coupled with responses to threads trying to figure out how to get it (such as the one I linked too) - why tell them "sorry, given what you said the character slots are the only way you have to get it" when it *should* have been answered not to worry about it. Posting in threads like that is tacit approval of the message it is "exclusive" even though they never actually used the word. At the least it is dishonest by allowing others to do your deceiving for you and egging it on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dryndalyn

To me, it was glaringly obvious that it would most likely get sold later. This is probably because I am older and have experienced this type of marketing to be the norm in the business world. Marketers are extremely careful about wording and of course do what they can to promote their products. It would be foolish not to. But what is wrong with their goal?

In large part because Anet has spent the last two years doing exactly the opposite. Yea, I mostly expect from a company I know nothing about and there are also many companies that I know that's what I'm getting. Anet has always been that has built a relationship that we can mostly trust (and the times they haven't delivered have been technical reasons - for instance I'll buy that the auction house was not something they could really add into the engine). Maybe it is that I'm too old and still remember when you could trust someone, especially once they have earned it.

Reality is I would have mostly likely done exactly the same thing as what I did - as much as I like the box I like "cheap" better and would assume that the BMP would cost more than what I would have saved by buying in a local store. So it's not wanting to protect my items (after all many people *did* get the BMP so it's not like they are actually rare or anything), it is that this is a 100% reversal of Anet's past practices. They were a company you *didn't* have to assume that they were playing with words to get you to believe something that they didn't really intend.

If they want to move to a more "traditional" company in that sense that is fine too - I'll just make a note that they moved from the "trusted" column to the "not-trusted" and go from there (in either case that has little effect on if I purchase their game or not, that is mostly predicated on liking it). If they stick by their "I never said exactly exclusive" and re-release it then it will take a long time to get back to trusted (and no matter how much Anet wishes to change it too something else it's too late, pandora's box was opened) - for those that simply never trust a company then I can easily see why this doesn't bother you, it's just par for the course. As of right now it can still be all chalked up to a "mistake" and Gaile misunderstood someone (for one thing that is totally within the realm of possibility).

But we can already see the after effects of it with the whining over the Polar Bear and hats - the same arguments are used there as for re-releasing the BMP along with pointing out you think about one, but why not this one?

Vilaptca · Jan 05, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

It's all a conspiracy:

Bonus Mission Pack - Abbrv = BMP
Mini Polar Bear - Abbrv= MPB

omg it all makes sense now...

WinterSnowblind · Jan 05, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

It wasn't the lack of a stated alternative that caused me to believe it, it was that their wording was identical to all the other times that they did an exclusive coupled with responses to threads trying to figure out how to get it (such as the one I linked too) - why tell them "sorry, given what you said the character slots are the only way you have to get it" when it *should* have been answered not to worry about it. Posting in threads like that is tacit approval of the message it is "exclusive" even though they never actually used the word. At the least it is dishonest by allowing others to do your deceiving for you and egging it on.

In large part because Anet has spent the last two years doing exactly the opposite. Yea, I mostly expect from a company I know nothing about and there are also many companies that I know that's what I'm getting. Anet has always been that has built a relationship that we can mostly trust (and the times they haven't delivered have been technical reasons - for instance I'll buy that the auction house was not something they could really add into the engine). Maybe it is that I'm too old and still remember when you could trust someone, especially once they have earned it.

Reality is I would have mostly likely done exactly the same thing as what I did - as much as I like the box I like "cheap" better and would assume that the BMP would cost more than what I would have saved by buying in a local store. So it's not wanting to protect my items (after all many people *did* get the BMP so it's not like they are actually rare or anything), it is that this is a 100% reversal of Anet's past practices. They were a company you *didn't* have to assume that they were playing with words to get you to believe something that they didn't really intend.

If they want to move to a more "traditional" company in that sense that is fine too - I'll just make a note that they moved from the "trusted" column to the "not-trusted" and go from there (in either case that has little effect on if I purchase their game or not, that is mostly predicated on liking it). If they stick by their "I never said exactly exclusive" and re-release it then it will take a long time to get back to trusted (and no matter how much Anet wishes to change it too something else it's too late, pandora's box was opened) - for those that simply never trust a company then I can easily see why this doesn't bother you, it's just par for the course. As of right now it can still be all chalked up to a "mistake" and Gaile misunderstood someone (for one thing that is totally within the realm of possibility).

But we can already see the after effects of it with the whining over the Polar Bear and hats - the same arguments are used there as for re-releasing the BMP along with pointing out you think about one, but why not this one?

You're bringing up the same points over and over again. What more is there to say? You're comparing random collectors items, that have absolutely no affect on gameplay, other than being something to collect, to four full-fledged missions.

You do know GW2 isn't being released for another year yet, and they are going to want the original to keep going for some time yet.

I think it's still fair to assume if they do more collectors editions or unique bonus rewards they will still be as unique as they have been in the past. But when it's a huge amount of new PLAYABLE content, the chances seem slim that it won't be released again. And frankly, I'm not really seeing any negative affects from this. Yes, there is a large amount of people whining, but these are the same people that whine about everything.

Angel Puriel · Jan 05, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

ANet should have just made the BMP as a download-only mini-expansion from the get go. Mixing in all of this timed exclusivtivity, complexity to obtain BMP, and conditions only pisses people off and loses them money in the long run. I know why they did what they did, but it really wasn't necessary nor was it the right decision IMO.