Curse

Roshi_ikkyu · Jan 05, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

By players you mean "bot controllers" I guess? Are you implying that these bot-controllers do get inside their bot-controlled GW once in a while, may be to put the anti-bot features off the track?

Yes, it's often evident in other mmos. More so whith ones that employ GMs, the macros/bots are watched over by real people. Who can by pass imput features and even respond to questions.

Other bot threads at guru have had people explain that they tried to whisper bots threatening to report them. A few times there whispers were answered with delayed half nonsense/ non-english comments. Uncharacteristic for bots, more likely an overseer.

Still only way to stop the concept of bots is: Close down GW.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Still only way to stop the concept of bots is: Close down GW.

Yeah it's the as-old-as-man problem of security: the only trully perfect security is achieved when you're completely cut from the rest of the world

.

Yanman.be · Jan 05, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 05, 2008, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Here's an idea: take off all the farming nerfs. Yes, botters will become richer. But you know what? So will legitimate human farmers.

As matters stand now, a bot can make a large sum of cash farming because they do it for hours and hours, constantly. A human can not play that long, and so cannot, and makes a much smaller sum of cash.

If we were able to make large sums of money farming, sure the botters would get much richer, but at least we, the players, would have cash to buy stuff we want, such as elite armours.

MaDDoG1221 · Jan 05, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

And im sure GW would lose thoussands of players.. I for one dont like PvP much. I like PvE better

Angel Puriel · Jan 05, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Bots really isn't even a major problem in GW. At least not compared to most other MMOs. The only negative effective they cause is inflation. Then again, GW's "economy" and structure leads to inflation eventually, with or without bots/RMT/gold farmers. An instanced game like GW means that bots/RMT cause almost 0 grief to players. It'll be interesting to see what will happen in GW2, as it'll contain a persistant world, mixing in instanced dungeons and whatnot. GW2 is where people should be worried about bots and RMT, not this current GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

Yet another ridculous and condescending comment by a holier than thou PvPer. Seriously, do you weirdos have some sort of grudge against PvE-only players or something?

OMG! Get rid of PvE and all your problems will disappear! Great idea, given the fact that PvE is the main reason why most GW players even buy this game. You're a friggin' genius! Gimme a break...

HuntMaster Avatar · Jan 05, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

worst idea ever. you must of had a very bad experiance in pve.

just lower the price of everything and increase drop rate of items and gold. no point in buying something thats very easy to get.

Phoenix Tears · Jan 05, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

when anet really would want to stop botting. then they need to develop a sub program into the starting exe (patcher)...which automatically blocks all tries of login into the game over 3rd programs...because that#s it..what botters do ...

their bot programs are 3rd programs with that they log in into the game...similar to textmod (but that is naturally no bot program...)
But such a 3rd programm blocker would naturally mean also...to abandon textmod and the ability of the players to be via textmod creative

flyinhigh · Jan 05, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

1: I am as smart as you, maybe smarter.
2: randomization only goes so far, your randomization will maybe screw up the first few bots to encounter it, then it will be re designed to account for it.
(example c + space=bot went around crack in land)
3: you can program into the bot randomization within certain set limits, like activating skills in sequence.
4: i can make a bot tell if there is a gold or if its a crap white here it is pixelgetcolor 18502 230:480 270:480
5: i can make a bot read its called image compare sequence
6: if you can do it i can make a bot do it.

Pandora's box · Jan 05, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Botting is a sign that the game droprates are too low, with the result that players who don't want to do all kinds of repetitive actions find ways to get the stuff they want in a differend way. The obvious solotution is: re-balance the current economy system and increase droprates drasticly.
Sure, there always will be people who are never satisfied, so bots won't vanish from the game. But when everyone is able to get good stuff within a reasonalble amount of time, no one would care anymore.

6am3 Fana71c · Jan 05, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

What? I woke up and this thread is still alive? Well, you asked for it! I hearby pronounce kitty season open!

Phoenix Tears · Jan 05, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Botting is a sign that the game droprates are too low, with the result that players who don't want to do all kinds of repetitive actions find ways to get the stuff they want in a differend way. The obvious solotution is: re-balance the current economy system and increase droprates drasticly.
Sure, there always will be people who are never satisfied, so bots won't vanish from the game. But when everyone is able to get good stuff within a reasonalble amount of time, no one would care anymore.

no.thats the absolute false way...
drop rates are ok.....the only drop rate that could be raised if that for example of colors like black and white ...

or drop rates of rare materials and that they drop also in higher amounts..then only 1-7 ...look only at common materials..they drop in like amouts over easily over 30 pieces in the later and high end areas...but there are also rare materials..that I#ver never seen..that ever dropped more than only 1 piece >.> things like monster eyes/fangs for example..or any gemstones...they drop absolutely not...othe then through chests ... what sucks imo
...

but what must be really changed is..that they MUST not exist any super rare things..like minipets...which are so rare.. that people make ridiculous insane prices for them like 100 platin and hundreds over thousands of ectos ...
THAt MUSr be stopped and the drop rate of these must be increased.. so that these insane prices will drop finally....they need to become alot more common... no minipet SHOULD cost more then 100 Platin !! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING should...

then about rebalancing the economy.. the game needs more merchant npcs.. which sell things..like upgrades..insignias and so on.. and then all those npc#s should sell their stuff for FIXED prices... an economy that is lead through supply and demand will EVER lead sooner or later into a broken inflated economy destroyed by farm botters and gold sellers

Why for example could Runes not be sold all at fixed prices...
all minor ones cost ever 100g ..all greater ones will cost ever 500g and all superior ones will cost ever 1 Platin ..so simple ... there is absolutely no need to sell them over supply and demand with ever changing prices ....

same with colors.. let all colors simple cost 500g ..done

same again with upgrades.. let them all cost 500g to 1 platin.. games with market npcs selling all stuff at fixed prices are much more immune vs inflation...because gold sellers and botters won't effect the economy then

zwei2stein · Jan 05, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Botting is a sign that the game droprates are too low, with the result that players who don't want to do all kinds of repetitive actions find ways to get the stuff they want in a differend way. The obvious solotution is: re-balance the current economy system and increase droprates drasticly.
Sure, there always will be people who are never satisfied, so bots won't vanish from the game. But when everyone is able to get good stuff within a reasonalble amount of time, no one would care anymore.

Obvious flaw: Ecomony is screwed, i have mule FULL of perfect r9 golds (most of them pretty rare), noone wants.

Increasing droprate only puts more such stuff in ecomony, but economy is overblown with them so much that you cant make decent money selling stuff to other players.

Bigger droprate makes it even more RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

You're right Yan, and similarly the solution to GWG's problem is to remove you

(people: don't fall into the traps that he's laying on GWG, he's a very good ranger!

)

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

when anet really would want to stop botting. then they need to develop a sub program into the starting exe (patcher)...which automatically blocks all tries of login into the game over 3rd programs...because that#s it..what botters do ...

similar to textmod (but that is naturally no bot program...)

I don't know if you realise the technical difficulty of that. It would even be very easy to bypass this, as there are always technical ways to do that (I mean, if it the cost/benefit was good for them, bot developpers would hack into the graphic and network drivers).

Unless Anet starts an enrollment program (which is not something they'd do for GW1 anyway) to determine exactly what is a legitimate "mod" (people generally call "mod" the 3rd party programs that modify the appearance of the game, but in essence they look the same to the GW client program), this can't happen. So it would mean no mods like the beautiful pre-searing one? And the one for the GMC title? It'd kill the nice and collaborative creativity of one part of the community.

Not to mention the most important point: what if it decided that this small, rare and useful program that you usually use (e.g., ILoveP2P) looks like a 3rd party prog and kills it? Would you "trust" Anet to chose what to do like Blizzard is doing with the Warden in WoW? I trust them for a lot of things, but I wouldn't for that, not one minute. Even if the price to pay is botting and its annoying economical consequences.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinhigh

6: if you can do it i can make a bot do it.

I can play chess. Can your bot beat me to it?

Or the much more aggressive version of the above: I've got a PGP key, can you decrypt this email?

I really hope that they implement a complex form of statistical analysis in GW2, so that they can screw the bot developpers and RMT companies. While you're here, would you care to tell us why you're botting?

zwei2stein · Jan 05, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I can play chess. Can your bot beat me to it?

Or the much more aggressive version of the above: I've got a PGP key, can you decrypt this email?

I really hope that they implement a complex form of statistical analysis in GW2, so that they can screw the bot developpers and RMT companies. While you're here, would you care to tell us why you're botting?

I think you are taking cheap shots there. Bot does not have to be better than reall person. Bot does not have to make outputs based on data that it has no access to.

I can play chess. Can you beat me at them? If not, you cant play chess. (see what i didnt there?). I am pretty sure that if turing test was based on chess, "bot" would pass it (and human would not).

About encrypthion keys, that was just stupid. If you can decrypt mail with your key, guess what, "bot" can decrypt mail with your key.

MirkoTeran · Jan 05, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

when anet really would want to stop botting. then they need to develop a sub program into the starting exe (patcher)...which automatically blocks all tries of login into the game over 3rd programs...because that#s it..what botters do ...

No offense, but next time don't even go there, as you clearly have little to no idea how bots work.

Fril Estelin · Jan 05, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

zwei2stein, I was merely pointing to the computational complexity of these tasks (and I was not going to ask this guy to install his bot on my comp to decrypt my email, it's called a cypher challenge!). There's a good reason why it took a Deep Blue (30-node with 4800 dedicated chips) to beat a Master (that I'm not, of course!). Similarly, and you very probably know it, there's an RSA challenge with a $10,000 prize (which I'm infinitely far from being able to win!).

It's simply a matter of making the cost higher than the benefit for them, not proving that I'm better at chess or RSA than the bot programmer.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 05, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The solution to all of GW's problem is to remove PvE.

And watch as Guild Wars falls into obscurity and no copies of Guild Wars 2 sell. Ever.