Curse

blue.rellik · Jan 09, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I think this is a great idea but personally feel that it's being saved for GW2

Sha Noran · Jan 09, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

the recycling of certain dungeon areas broke my heart.

Yeah, after stating in every interview how impressive a job the art team was doing at keeping every dungeon original, there's not any dungeon that doesn't have at least one copy pasted room. I mean, come on, we're not stupid...

Shyft the Pyro · Jan 09, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Yeah, after stating in every interview how impressive a job the art team was doing at keeping every dungeon original, there's not any dungeon that doesn't have at least one copy pasted room. I mean, come on, we're not stupid...

Didn't you get the memo? Reskins are all the rage these days! Players are too dumb to stop buying campaigns where reskins replace original content!

Remember the "dungeon preview" video? Wonderful imagery, beautiful effects... wait, is that the Nolani Academy stairwell design? and is that a Fungal Wallow's shudder that unknown four-legged creature just had?

Recycling is an old problem in GW, and the fact that the players aren't up in arms over it - yet - speaks volumes about the creativity of the design team. But with GWEN being "it" until GW2, people start replaying the content more often, notice more patterns, and ask more questions. What's been used as a sure-fire shortcut to roll out GW content faster may end up biting ANet in the @$$ by reducing player interest - which would mean less people are playing GW, less people are thinking about GW2, and less people are ready to pick up ANet's new product the moment it rolls out.

But, hey, let's just wait and see. I mean, I may have called out those things in the "dungeon preview" video the moment I saw them, but I'm in no way representative of the player base, right?

Lagg · Jan 09, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

"Realms of the Gods instead of dungeons would have doubled the game's lifespan"

Source?

(In other words, that is just a wild guess - and no, it probably is not going to add several years to GW's lifespan.)

Source?

My full friends list and guild roster with most people being offline, the main reason being bored of FoW and UW, which we've been playing for 2 years straight. The very fact that we've held out so long testifies of the brilliance of these areas. We'd just like, you know, some more.

If FoW and UW kept us busy for two and a half years, then three new UW/FoWs (let's start with one at a time) with the promise of offering even more prestigious armor than Obsidian surely will keep us busy for one.

As for the other things to do:

Most are simply not interested in doing everything again on HM or maxing titles just to get some meaningless words under their name and a Hall of Monuments that is as awkward to show off to others as the family pictures of your beach holidays in El Cheapo.

No real reasons to go to DoA (too inaccessible, both in terms of difficulty and geography) or The Deep (fun but utterly pointless).

Disappointed with GWEN dungeons on the whole.

Fed up with ultra-elitist PvP (okay, AB is fun, but you can only do so much of it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

They now have most of their crew working on GW2. Moving people off that would delay it...

Absolutely true.

However, they need to make sure that people actually want GW2. And what better way to make us want GW2 than to make us fall in love with GW1 again?

Every single expansion, from Factions through GWEN has moved us a bit further away from the core design of Prophecies. It seems that ArenaNet has wanted to reinvent the game with every new campaign.

We don't want a new game, we want more of the same. Otherwise we'd just play a different game.

Look at Blizzard. They have the most unoriginal games around, and they glue millions of people to their screens day after day.

And why? Because they've simply held true to the one basic rule of design:

Keep It Simple, Stupid

Don't try to reinvent the wheel and never ever change a winning team.

Vaal 84 · Jan 09, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

/signed 31 months into the game and my favourite area is still the Fow. I love it there, whether i'm farming or questing i just love that place. I'd like to see more realms of the gods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Recycling is an old problem in GW, and the fact that the players aren't up in arms over it - yet - speaks volumes about the creativity of the design team

Did you not see the huge amount of posts complaining about the recycling of gw:en armours and how crap some of the gw:en weapon skins are. i'm pretty sure some people are well aware of the issue. I love the game, but this particular issue really pissed me off...

Abnaxus · Jan 09, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

So, basically the OP is asking for:

- "new ectos" and "new shards"
- a new area in which everyone and his dog would farm for endless hours, in order to get 120 "new ectos" and 120 "new shards", to craft the:
- "new fow armor" that everyone can see so he can feel again uber leet.

Very innovative concept in game design, indeed.

Epic failure.

The basic concept of FoW armor is an epic failure.
It's not related in any way to FoW, except for the fact that the cafter is located there, and accessible after a couple of quests which require 1 hour do be done.

Example: I farmed gargoyles outside Nolani for my title during wintersday, and although I'm not a hardcore farmer, I got 4 stacks of spiked eggnogs.
A real harcore farmer could have got at least 8 stacks, let's say 15 ectos per stack (actually more, nearly 20 ...) 120+ ectos just farming gargoyles.

At this point, the gargoyle farmer could have taken one of his ascended chars which was never in FoW before, joined a FoW group, spent 1 hour in some quests, and crafted the uber leet armor.

So the uber leetest armor can be a reward for farming level 8 gargoyles outside Nolani ... LOL epic failure.

GWEN armors finally introduced a new concept: you can farm as many gargoyles you want, have thousands of ectos in your storage, but if your character doesn't meet the requirement, you don't even see the crafter.

This is the way every elite armor, especially FoW, should be designed.

There should be some kind of "fow rank" or "uw rank" that you must reach with the very character you want to buy the armor (and not with another one) to proof that you're a real master in those dungeons, you should be required to complete every quest both in normal and hard mode for instance, and maybe more than one time.
Instead people go to UW, take 1 quest and farm spiders, then go to FoW, do 2-3 quests, and craft the armor.

Only after you reach the highest rank in those dungeons, you could be able to see the crafter, at this point the cost could be 15k + a small amount of rare materials.

You should be rewarded for your skill in UW and FoW, not for gargoyle farming.

Abnaxus · Jan 09, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

If FoW and UW kept us busy for two and a half years, then three new UW/FoWs (let's start with one at a time) with the promise of offering even more prestigious armor than Obsidian surely will keep us busy for one.

As for the other things to do:

Most are simply not interested in doing everything again on HM or maxing titles just to get some meaningless words under their name and a Hall of Monuments that is as awkward to show off to others as the family pictures of your beach holidays in El Cheapo.

LOL so some pixels obtained farming gargoyles are more prestigeous than some "meaningless words" that prove you are skilled in cartography, hard mode missions, vanquish and so on?
You win!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Every single expansion, from Factions through GWEN has moved us a bit further away from the core design of Prophecies. It seems that ArenaNet has wanted to reinvent the game with every new campaign.

We don't want a new game, we want more of the same. Otherwise we'd just play a different game.

Look at Blizzard. They have the most unoriginal games around, and they glue millions of people to their screens day after day.

And why? Because they've simply held true to the one basic rule of design:

Keep It Simple, Stupid

I understand now, you want to play a stupid unoriginal game, hopefully GW2 will be designed around this concept so you will enjoy.

Avarre · Jan 09, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

This is a bandaid fix. It doesn't make the game more fun, it just gives more of the same - and people will get tired pretty soon after they blast through the new areas (and they will, with PvE skills), farm what is to be farmed, and leave it alone.

Developers have better things to do, like design a new game and not make the same mistakes they made in GW1.

Sirius-NZ · Jan 09, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Source?

My full friends list and guild roster with most people being offline, the main reason being bored of FoW and UW, which we've been playing for 2 years straight. The very fact that we've held out so long testifies of the brilliance of these areas. We'd just like, you know, some more.

Uhhh... fair enough, but most people I've heard of haven't spent most of GW farming FoW/UW. There have been other things to do, and even if there weren't, I couldn't really imagine spending two years re-running the same couple areas...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Every single expansion, from Factions through GWEN has moved us a bit further away from the core design of Prophecies. It seems that ArenaNet has wanted to reinvent the game with every new campaign.

We don't want a new game, we want more of the same. Otherwise we'd just play a different game.

Not all of us. Personally, I do like them to change it up a bit, especially considering Guild Wars wasn't perfect. It seems to me, both from what they've said and from the new directions I've noticed, that ArenaNet is learning from their experiences and using them to make the game better, which is in my mind a good thing.

Of course there are going to be those people who disagreed with them and thought the original Guild Wars was perfect - or, at the very least, the changes they made were not improvements - and those people would get left behind. Problem is, you can't cater to two groups with different opinions at the same time ...

arcanemacabre · Jan 09, 2008, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Uhhh... fair enough, but most people I've heard of haven't spent most of GW farming FoW/UW. There have been other things to do, and even if there weren't, I couldn't really imagine spending two years re-running the same couple areas...

Yeah, pretty much. I've gone to UW for a total of 5 times, and FoW 3 times, and I am pretty bored of them after that. The only reason people repeat them over and over is farming.

Adding new realms would be awesome at first - new quests, new mobs, new areas to explore, new items - just all awesome. But, just like anything new, it will lose its glamor in time. The only people left playing them: farmers. Add in new "prestige" armor, and that would be doubly true.

I think the best example of this is when DoA was first released. There were many, many districts filled with all sorts of players trying to conquer it and enjoy the new content. After about a week, it was down to 1-3 districts. After a while, the number rose again as the builds and guides were finalized and everyone went farming. It's now a farming outpost, just like ToA.

Longasc · Jan 09, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

I understand now, you want to play a stupid unoriginal game, hopefully GW2 will be designed around this concept so you will enjoy.

Your interpretation of the KISS principle and the hostility towards Lagg is quite undeserved.

You missed his point and do him injustice!

He points out something that is unfortunately true:

GW is moving more and more away from the original principles of Prophecies.

GW1 ----Factions-----Nightfall-----GWEN-----> GW2 = Standard MMORPG

This is a fatal trend. People were playing GW1 because it was GW and the design philosophy behind. Now they try to cater to everyone, more people, and RE-INVENT the wheel, i.e. the standard grinder MMO.

This smells of total failure and pissing off the existing playerbase.

See some of the latest additions to gameplay: URSAN BLESSING (Norn grind rank based) + CONSUMABLES (attainable after some minor grind). These skills are a total contradiction to the original design of GW in my opinion.

Additions to the game are always welcome, but not turning the game into another game.

Koning · Jan 09, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

New areas like UW/FoW is like a dream come true for me. I've always liked (and still do) those areas, even more than other 'elite' areas (only Deep comes close).

boxterduke · Jan 09, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Every large update, I jump to guildwars.com to see the update notes hoping to see something like - added the realm of Lyssa, Melandru and Dwayna

I'm still hopping they do that one day and also hopefully the are comparable to the old elite area designs such as UW and FoW and not like DoA or that stupid Duncan dungeon.

tmr819 · Jan 09, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

Hmm

I've actually never been to the FoW and only done UW once, the reason being that you can't take henchies and I'm a completely solo player. If they did make it so you could play alone however, I'd be there all the time.

This is where I am exactly. If they allowed h/h (i.e., solo teams) access to these places, I'd like that. Think Sorrow's Furnace.

If they're going to be like the present FoW and UW. Meh. Not interested/don't care.

Sirius-NZ · Jan 09, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

Every large update, I jump to guildwars.com to see the update notes hoping to see something like - added the realm of Lyssa, Melandru and Dwayna

I'm still hopping they do that one day and also hopefully the are comparable to the old elite area designs such as UW and FoW and not like DoA or that stupid Duncan dungeon.

Don't hold your breath... at this point it is relatively unlikely they'll make anything on that scale for GW1. It could happen, of course, but it's unlikely. Additionally, they'll probably announce it if it's going to happen.

sterbenx2 · Jan 09, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I personally hoped that new god realms would be added with each new chapter. Instead they added Tombs to Proph with Factions release.. wtf? While the Tombs was new and fun at the time it soon turned into a specific build area only, but the point is, it was still popular. Still is to a certain extent, which makes it the oddball of all the new elite areas.

Deep, Urgoz, and, Anguish are very largly abandoned. I think its due to the fact that they have no common, easily accessable outpost and only one chapter access. FoW and UW maintain bacause they can be entered in all chapters and have a common, easy to get outpost.

What the elite areas needed to maintain popularity is a ToA type access point for ALL of them. So, new god realms would be the best addition since Sorrows Furnace (which is also very much abandoned) so,

/signed for the god realms

/unsigned for new materials. we have plenty already.

Common, easy to access outposts for ALL chapters for ALL elite areas. ftw

IslandHermet · Jan 09, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

So why didn't the remaining Realms of the Gods happen?

Well its pretty simple why the other realms are left out. The chicks of GW have everything undercontrol unlike grenth and balth who are lazy and do not eliminate the problems like True Gods would they want us to do it for them.

Longasc · Jan 09, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

What the elite areas needed to maintain popularity is a ToA type access point for ALL of them. So, new god realms would be the best addition since Sorrows Furnace (which is also very much abandoned

Indeed. But they probably think: We have only 2 god realms after all, so why bother.

The central access point to the god realms idea already popped up right after the release of Factions. Also the idea of a centralized trade hub city.

Lagg · Jan 09, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

So, basically the OP is asking for:

- "new ectos" and "new shards"
- a new area in which everyone and his dog would farm for endless hours, in order to get 120 "new ectos" and 120 "new shards", to craft the:
- "new fow armor" that everyone can see so he can feel again uber leet.

Sums it up perfectly.

Quote:

Very innovative concept in game design, indeed.

I understand now, you want to play a stupid unoriginal game, hopefully GW2 will be designed around this concept so you will enjoy.

Stupid, no. Unoriginal compared to the original, yes.

Guild Wars was original to begin with. No "innovation" needed to be added. But as Longasc pointed out, it seems that even the most staple concept of Guild Wars, the 8 skills skillbar, has been defiled in the meantime (*cough* Ursan Blessing *cough*).

I'm refraining from making any analogies here, but it's true, I never wanted something new, I just wanted more of what I already loved. I don't understand what's so odd about that.

If you want something different, you play another game, no?

And all this aside, I'm not saying anything should be taken away from Guild Wars as it exists today. It was good for ArenaNet to experiment with "innovative" content, even if not all of it was received well. But they should have at least also catered to their crowd.

It's obvious from this thread alone how many people were anticipating more Realms. And that's all I'm wondering about: why didn't they happen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

Well its pretty simple why the other realms are left out. The chicks of GW have everything undercontrol unlike grenth and balth who are lazy and do not eliminate the problems like True Gods would they want us to do it for them.

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

MarlinBackna · Jan 09, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

/signed
FoW and UW were truly excellent dungeons, and I guess I was expecting the same in GWEN and was disappointed. I would have a hard time visualizing the problem that would be occurring in the other 3 Realms but I think nevertheless that it would be an awesome addition. Maybe not all three at once, but one at a time would be SF-sized updates that are small enough for Anet to do and large enough to keep us interested.
But I want it to be like FoW/UW. No super-leet-gosu boss at the end (like every other dungeon in GW), new materials, new armor associated with the god's realm (ex. Tree-like armor for Melandru, Holy Light-like armor for Dwyana, smexy armor for Lyssa) would all be pluses.