Curse

ElinoraNeSangre · Jan 13, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

It's a bug. A bug is something that does not do what the designer/dev intended. Thus it is also subjective. Sorry to say, but if ANet says this isn't how it's supposed to work, then it's a bug (I work in software and I see this *every day*). There is no changing the fact that ANet determines bug or no bug.

I also realize that makes it hard on everyone as they don't have access to design specs and dev docs and test plans and the whole 9 yards to know every thing that's allowable, but there comes a point where we have to have a little bit of common sense and think for ourselves.

Providing absolute proof of the hacking would mean potentially dragging out the how of the hack here - that is a MASSIVE security risk and opens ANet up for a lot of people to try stuff like it. It is outright not possible to provide that kind of proof without compromising every user - it's bad enough that some speculation is being tossed around here on possibilities (but at least there's no actual steps). Knowledge is power and that kind of knowledge could have very bad effects farther down the line. There comes a point where proof for a few people risks damaging the good of the whole, and that's just not a scenario that ANet will want to let play out (and with good reason).

FeroxC does make a good point though - the hacker would be the first guy in the log. But no one is going to release that information to us; that's just poor form.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

i cant see ANET lying, i think if they "tought" it was a hack then they would have stated that. the only argument being that the GH trick has been fixed so therefore it cannot be tested. bare in mind that anet only tried to solve this after the GH trick was fixed. if they claikm it was a hack im leaning towards anet, lets face it, their whole tech support knows a lot more than any of us.
BUT and this is important... the GH excuse was extremely believable, especially to those who have no experience with this GH trick as they didnt know the ins and outs of it

I knew of the GH trick, I actually used it, and I admitted to Anet that I used it, I was in tuned with that, but they did not ban me for that. Unless you don't mean the Ambassador Bug. I wiped the char that I used with the bug, a Dervish, lvl 20, legendary survivor, primeval armor, D/ only, I wiped her. The Guild Hall trick was what everyone that I farmed with used to ferry people, including me, over there.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

then that makes me think...if you got to the bugged area by resigning...why wasnt it more well known? im sure maybe people have gone to mallyx and resigned because someone didnt load or brought the wrong skill bar, this happens a lot and im sure if you could get to mallyx bugged area by resigning it would have been extremely well known amongst all doa players
on this fact im tending to lean towards the possibility of a hack..
and if it is a hack then imo most of the ferriers possibly used this hack themselves, based on the fact that these guys claim to access the area by exploiting the GH trick. Or one of the hackers gave the area to a char who resided in the bugged area for all time as a gate way.people who claim to be ferriers who could access all other areas of the game AND return back to bugged area imo are hackers...but i may be wrong
hard to explain but if you think about it you will see where i come from

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

then that makes me think...if you got to the bugged area by resigning...why wasnt it more well known? im sure maybe people have gone to mallyx and resigned because someone didnt load or brought the wrong skill bar, this happens a lot and im sure if you could get to mallyx bugged area by resigning it would have been extremely well known amongst all doa players
on this fact im tending to lean towards the possibility of a hack..
and if it is a hack then imo most of the ferriers possibly used this hack themselves, based on the fact that these guys claim to access the area by exploiting the GH trick. Or one of the hackers gave the area to a char who resided in the bugged area for all time as a gate way.people who claim to be ferriers who could access all other areas of the game AND return back to bugged area imo are hackers...but i may be wrong
hard to explain but if you think about it you will see where i come from

I would guess because most people didn't go /resign then map to the Guild Hall. I think it was just a bug for a short time. /resign, then go to Guild Hall, alone, and then leave iirc.

FeroxC · Jan 13, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

115 is a tiny amount of people considering the games player base so the "every1 was doing it" excuse doesn't work. Looks like some of you guys were just hanging out with the wrong crowd but peer pressure isn't an excuse .

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I would guess because most people didn't go /resign then map to the Guild Hall. I think it was just a bug for a short time. /resign, then go to Guild Hall, alone, and then leave iirc.

no to my knowledge you cant access it by map travel, the only means of permanent access is to have a permanent resident in the bugged area, which they cant have permanent access as they need to renew the quest, which means they must leave. once left they would "according to gh trick" go to mallyx, resign then they have the access once again. i find this hard to believe.
and according the people explaining the process of how to get there, it didnt involve any trips to mallyx and resigning to activate the gh trick
imo its becoming more clearer that more than one hacker is involved
whoever ferried people is most likely a hacker

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

no to my knowledge you cant access it by map travel, the only means of permanent access is to have a permanent resident in the bugged area, which they cant have permanent access as they need to renew the quest, which means they must leave. once left they would "according to gh trick" go to mallyx, resign then they have the access once again. i find this hard to believe.
and according the people explaining the process of how to get there, it didnt involve any trips to mallyx and resigning to activate the gh trick
imo its becoming more clearer that more than one hacker is involved

Tbh, if you got one person there, you could get tons of people there. The one person would ferry someone else, and then he would get the quest, and then the person who was ferried would ferry. Never ending cycle.

SirJackassIII · Jan 13, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I never saw anyone in general say nah, cause I might get banned. They went full throttle into it.

Oh, so...besides abusing the exploit yourselves, you also got more and more people involved...in secrecy of course...

This thread gets better and better...

I'd also like to ask if you'd all jump of a bridge if your friends did it? One with water under it, so you might not hit the rocks but just the water...which could still kill you but you might make it out alive...and in case you survived, you'd jump again.

Because that's exactly what you did with your accounts. And a few days ago, they hit the rocks.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

mickey read my last thread and explain how that is possible given what i stated AND if im wrong about my conclusion then please point out where

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

mickey read my last thread and explain how that is possible given what i stated AND if im wrong about my conclusion then please point out where

I have absolutely NO experience with getting into the outpost besides be ferried. And no Jackass, I didn't recruit people to come with us. I was talking about the people that recruited me.....they asked people that they knew to come, no one said no thank you.

I farmed 7 times in 2 hours one night. I left the outpost, I never went back.

All it takes is one tainted cookie.

Commander Ryker · Jan 13, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

If you guys cannot offer anything new to this discussion, then please do not post. It will be deleted.

Sawamura · Jan 13, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

The reason this all started was by one person only .. He invited his friends to do it, they invited theirs, yada yada yada .. The so called so reason to ban them for hacking the GW Client is pure BS imho .. The only one who should be permabanned is that guy who hacked the client and spread the entire thing. He couldn't kill Mallyx on his own, so he had to take a few friends, they were a few friends short when some were AFK/Offline, so they grabbed some other guys. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Besides, you can't say they didn't act as a community ;-) They shared & played together

Sure they did violate something by using the exploit, but is that really worth a perma ban ? I suggest Anet starts doing something about the botties & moneyspammers

Free the 116 !! PermaBan the other guy !!

Just my 2 cents ..

lacasner · Jan 13, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Haha, or actually better yet make them unbanned but allow them to only sit in that barren special mallyx outpost with no way to escape, and all they can do is keep killing mallyx without getting one drop of loot.

Karma would be a bitch :P

w00t! · Jan 13, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Since most people posting here seem unable or unwilling to differentiate, here's a couple of definitions from wiki:

...an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers.

What is or is not considered an exploit varies between games and developers.

A Hack is usually a technique used to subvert, misuse or subtly change a program, gadget or mechanism in such a way as to change, or add to, its functionality.

A software bug (or just "bug") is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended (e.g., producing an incorrect result).

It seems that Anet is willing to overlook people who have profited from bugs, as long as they have not unreasonably exploited them (i.e. Duncan).

Hacks are another matter altogether, which seemingly results in insti-bans (i.e. Mallyx).

If you want to better understand why Anet will not create absolute rules in their EULA, I would suggest you study Tort Law, or at least the "Reasonable Person" theory. It also may give some of those who were banned a glimmer of hope, as stated by Gaile (some people who only did Mallyx a couple times may be reinstated, if it can be proven that they reasonably expected that it was a normal part of gamplay that they weren't previously aware of - I'd call it: The Duncan Defense).

manitoba1073 · Jan 13, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

If you guys cannot offer anything new to this discussion, then please do not post. It will be deleted.

Would this be considered adding something new to the discussion?

Anet was made aware of this type of bug more than 6 months ago. And returned with the reply that it was impossible to do and that no further investigation would be done on the matter.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

until someone can rubbish my theory, which i doubt they can, then we should all start thinking towards potential multiple hackers..
here it is a again:
then that makes me think...if you got to the bugged area by resigning...why wasnt it more well known? im sure maybe people have gone to mallyx and resigned because someone didnt load or brought the wrong skill bar, this happens a lot and im sure if you could get to mallyx bugged area by resigning it would have been extremely well known amongst all doa players
on this fact im tending to lean towards the possibility of a hack..
and if it is a hack then imo most of the ferriers possibly used this hack themselves, based on the fact that these guys claim to access the area by exploiting the GH trick. Or one of the hackers gave the area to a char who resided in the bugged area for all time as a gate way.people who claim to be ferriers who could access all other areas of the game AND return back to bugged area imo are hackers...but i may be wrong
imo to be a ferry you must reside there all the time or lose access to the affected area...these ferriers had to renew quest therefore leaving the bugged area. how did they regain access?
i will repeatedly delete this post and add it to the last page until someone can rubbish this theory.

Clait · Jan 13, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Would this be considered adding something new to the discussion?

Anet was made aware of this type of bug more than 6 months ago. And returned with the reply that it was impossible to do and that no further investigation would be done on the matter.

Anet only took it seriously when somebody posted the details on guru. In the same token, we are posting on here.. so they will take us seriously. Gaile asked us to report bugs using the official support ticket system. People that did, got that kind of "you've been brushed off" response. So what can they expect? If we are not listened to through the official system.. then maybe they will listen on the community site.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

no one can pass comments or criticism to my last post and if i am right and havent missed anything..then we are definately dealing with a big number of hackers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Anet only took it seriously when somebody posted the details on guru. In the same token, we are posting on here.. so they will take us seriously. Gaile asked us to report bugs using the official support ticket system. People that did, got that kind of "you've been brushed off" response. So what can they expect? If we are not listened to through the official system.. then maybe they will listen on the community site.

my request went through fine. i was told that my ban was not to be removed but i told them to look at other areas which will prove my innocence. i will keep you posted on all details of my account status so that you all know what to expect

Cuthroat Dibbler · Jan 13, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

-snipped- to protect Guild Names

It is quite surprising to see a number of high profile Guild Names associated with this, and as Gaile has said herself, she is very disappointed seeing some names on the list and the breadth of their "abuse".

However, I think its unfair to tag the entire Guild as shady, when after research (my own, Ive been asking around a lot), those that did commit the sin, usually kept it very quiet and to themselves. The Guilds involved, in the main, appear to be very humble about ANY implication caused by any of their members that transgressed.

One or two maybe should have picked up clues sooner (due to their experience of the game as a whole) but ultimately it was an individual choice to take part in the exploit.

jdsama · Jan 13, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

imo to be a ferry you must reside there all the time or lose access to the affected area...these ferriers had to renew quest therefore leaving the bugged area. how did they regain access?
i will repeatedly delete this post and add it to the last page until someone can rubbish this theory.

The ferrier needn't stay the same person 1 ferrier can take 7 people to the outpost then ask one of those 7 to act as a ferrier for them when they go to get the quest. Anyone who gets to the outpost can become a ferrier thusly only one person needs to reach the outpost without a ferry(hacker?) for all 117 to make it in. That is my understanding of how it works at least.