Curse

SurrealFi · Jan 12, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

HuntMaster Avatar · Jan 12, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

never heard of this until just now. people who use 3pp/mods to cheat should be perma banned. newbs should get a temp ban and an email telling them why.

IMHO anet should close down areas that have exploits in them until its fixed. this would stop all the bans and keep the fanbase up. and i dont care if it bothers other players because being slightly/very annoyed does mean squat compared to mass bans.

right now it seems like anet doesnt know what they are doing and people are paying for it. if i do a run and get 100 ectos from a single monster i am going to keep doing it because the game allows it. it is anets job to fix problems, not the players. my job is to have fun and get the best stuff i can for my characters. if the game allows me a short cut, then i will use it. its not my job to walk around the game telling anet their faults. its their job.

when the players have problems, anet doesnt fix them. people spam vulgar profanity daily, account sellers spam and anet does nothing. it never goes away.

but if people KNOW something is bannable and keep doing it anyways. then o well for you. shoulda stopped. if you think something is fishy, then post on forums or send anet a msg asking about it. as far as i am concerned, bans are a good thing because 1. people have to buy new copies of their games. 2 less traders to compete with. 3 less people to deal with in forming groups which means players become more valueable.

PS: if you spent 1+ years on gw and had a perma ban, losing all your chars/items/elite skills/titles and all that, why the hell would you buy the game again? lol learn from their mistakes and just find something else.
more than likely you will just get banned again.

PS: no one pwns players like anet.

Mini britney spears is really cheap, you can buy her for 1 gold but the seller will want change.

Aiden Arcana · Jan 12, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

Couldn't have said it better myself. /agreed

jeesuss89 · Jan 12, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

/agree. I think that you're the most intelligent wo/man on this thread.

I applaud you. Work for A-net. They could do with a person like yourself.

Mr O Brian · Jan 12, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

Exactly, 100% Yes

Flowing Elephant · Jan 12, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

The general opinion (with a few exceptions) seems to be:
__

Permanent ban the ones who used the hack to gain access to this "non existent outpost", remove completly or change the ban to a 300 hours one for the accounts who got brought in there and used the exploit - but didnt use the hack themselves to gain entrance.
__

Two of my friends went there once, they didnt get banned.
One of my friends went there once, or he was dragged along, and got banned.
Two of my other friends also went there not once, but twice (and only killed the big boss once, mind you) and got a permanent ban.

I dont see a pattern. =)

Agree, im one of the lucky 117 aswell

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 12, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Let me just clarify a couple of thoughts.
1. Creating a support ticket is not a get out of Jail card. Just because you opened one does'nt give you carte blanche to go and run it as you see fit.

I really don't thinks saying "I was only testing" and then opening up a support ticket after you were banned is going to wash. Nor should it.

On the other hand opening up a "Hey I think there is an exploit but dont know how to do it or how it works" just clogs up Anets support desk.

Gaile has stated that Players who report exploits after testing should not get banned.

Quote:

Stop and think about this for a moment.

We had a serious bug exposed in the game. We took immediate and thorough measures to close the potential for exploitation, including disabling Reconnects and actioning certain accounts. That was the first and urgent level of response. It allowed us to assure that the exploitation was stopped as fully and completely as we are able to do so, in the short term. It allows us to take measure to stop those who had used the exploit from unloading their ill-gotten goods or taking advantage of others in making trades using duped items.

Now, we are aware that a few people reported the issue and tested how they thought it worked in order to provide us with that information. We would, naturally, not ban their accounts for having done so! If someone is banned -- and yes, it appears that this happened in the wee hours of the morning -- we're very sorry for that. However, such a ban is part of the "broad sweep" that we need to take in the short-term. If someone was banned and can be established that he or she did not take advantage of the exploit but was truly just testing, I have every confidence that we can amend that situation. However, the designers cannot do any "un-bans" for a short while during which the investigation continues.

We do not punish those who help us. We have absolutely no intention of doing so now.

and in this instance.

Quote:

In fact, the bar was set higher than a one-time or even few-time occurrence, as the Dev Update states, to avoid banning someone who was pulled there inadvertently or to avoid banning someone who might have thought he was helping by "testing" the exploit.

But what are the limits of the testing for an exploit, the above quotes read like if it can be proven you were testing for an exploit you should not get banned.

But when does just testing turn into abuse? I dunno.

In this case I can think of at least 32 tests that could be performed.

1. Does it work with 1,2,3,4,5,67,or 8 people in the team(thats 8 Mallyx runs(16 if we use Anets formula).
2. Does it work with 1,2,3,4,5,67,or 8 people in the team who don't have the quest(now we're up to 16 runs, or 32 Anet numbers)
3. Can I get repeated rewards with 1,2,3,4,5,67,or 8 people (now we're up to 24 runs, or 48 with Anet numbers
4. Can I get repeated rewards with 1,2,3,4,5,67,or 8 people who don;t have the quest (now we're up to 32 runs, or 64 with Anet numbers

Others spring to mind, does it only work in a certain district? etc etc

So doing proper testing, even with this limited scope could mean up to 32/64 uses. More than enough to put one over the ban limit in this instance

The get to the UW via lornars trick would only work from the Int district and if 4 or more people were from the American region, so the above are valid test. Now I'm sure that these guys did'nt test that extensivley. But they could have!

Can anyone afford not to go over a line they don't know is there?

Should we open a potentially needless ticket/Waste Gailes time by saying

"I think I know a Mallyx exploit, i'm going to test it a few times and report back"

Is that the right way to do things.

I dunno.

Point is people have been banned for apperently trying to help, and doing this less times than would be needed to extensively test it, they also opened a ticket as far as I understand it in pretty short order and did'nt wait a week, or months to do so.

For future exploits, we *really* need to know how to help anet the best, otherwise many people will take the I don't want to risk anything approach and therefore prolong the damage the exploit will do.

jeesuss89 · Jan 12, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

A-net determines which exploits are bad. Not all of 'em. /agree 1000000% !!!1

Cuthroat Dibbler · Jan 12, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I do have a question to ANet tho...

Will the records of those that have been banned in GW1 be maintained, therefore they are automatically banned from GW2? I hope so.

CountAristotle · Jan 12, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

..then they better e-mail AND call all 117 people to inform them of such a thing. Or else they'll have a hell of a lot of false advertisement lawsuits on their hands come GW2. And I highly doubt that A-Net has a stout legal team to handle it, considering they don't even have a phone number to call to deal with issues.

Count Pointing-Out-The-Obvious

Shadowmoon · Jan 12, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

dumbest thing they did was keep it secret to be honest. They spent months farming this, and keep it between around 200 people. If after they found this exploit, they started ferry everyone there, then it isn't a matter of a few hundred people, it become thousands, and anet can't ban thousands of accounts, it would be a PR nightmare.
Also look at the farming forum, alot of farmers love show off their epeens. Only when it seem not legit people quiet up because they don't want it to get nerfed.

tmakinen · Jan 12, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

*sigh*

Why are people still making appeals here? The community doesn't have game logs neither doesn't it have the power to ban or unban anybody. Those who do have better things to do than read 80+ pages of QQ.

And there are still people who claim that what was done was not worse than other past/current 'exploits'.

You are invited to a formal dinner.

During the dinner you leave your place, go to a side table where dessert is waiting and start devouring it while others are still eating the main course. People roll their eyes at your lack of manners.

During the dinner you're found in the kitchen, rummaging drawers for anything valuable. People do not roll their eyes any more. Cops roll their eyes at your lame excuses.

Players didn't have any business in the dev outpost, ever, but you still went there. You got caught. Case closed.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jan 12, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

sounds like anet keeps short cuts for their own personal gain. they probably never have to work as hard as normal players do.

Antheus · Jan 12, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountAristotle

..then they better e-mail AND call all 117 people to inform them of such a thing. Or else they'll have a hell of a lot of false advertisement lawsuits on their hands come GW2. And I highly doubt that A-Net has a stout legal team to handle it, considering they don't even have a phone number to call to deal with issues.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

You exploited, you got banned. Know which exploits are bannable, and which are harmless. If you can't tell, don't use any shortcuts of any kind.

Being unable to determine what is bannable offense cost you $200 - the cost of game. Legal expenses will cost you $50,000 - that you will waste without even making it to court.

This is same as when /report was introduced. So many "innocent" people got banned. Nah... Only the 117 worst and most annoying people did. They either couldn't comprehend the most basic social rules that exist in game, or didn't want to respect them.

Same here. Everyone that posts here about their innocence knowingly and willingly exploited the area repeatedly and with intent. There's no innocence here.

That's the main problem - the dozen or so people who continue to proclaim how unfair it is really and honestly don't understand why this was so wrong and why such severe punishment was done. At some point you'll need to either understand it, and learn a valuable lesson about what is permissible and what isn't - or get burned much worse in real life for the same reasons.

One hundred and seventeen people. That is all. There's less people in a single instance of a city. Would you notice if one of Lion's arch district's vanished?

And it's a lesson - be careful what and how you exploit. Just like /report improved the pvp behavior, so will this serve as a severe reminder.

Quote:

Common Gamer Motto: Take What You Can, Give Nothing Back. QQ, [email protected]

Not quite: Take all you can get away with, and make sure to give to those that matter. That's the proper way to exploit.

Bryant Again · Jan 12, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

sounds like anet keeps short cuts for their own personal gain. they probably never have to work as hard as normal players do.

No they don't, because they spend all that time making the game.

-Sonata- · Jan 12, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

"I think I know a Mallyx exploit, i'm going to test it a few times and report back"

Is that the right way to do things.

I dunno.

I would think so. If I was in the position in which I had stumbled onto an apparent glitch and one that could be exploited I would take the following steps.

First, stop whatever I'm doing. Note the date, the time, and the IP in my ping window.

Second, Take as many screenshots as needed, with mission maps up, and interface up, to show my location from what I see. My screens can then be compared to their logs.

Third, Take my noted information and send it to Anet with a message that would probably go something like this.

Subject Line: Immediate Reply Needed: Possible Glitch/Exploit

"To whom it may concern: While doing ____________ on Friday, January 11th at 10:02 pm EST, I suddenly experienced something out of the ordinary. <insert explination> <Provide links to uploaded screenshots>

While I cannot confirm if this is an actual exploitable glitch, or a random occurance that I have just experienced, I am notifying you of the instance for your records because it appears significant enough in its first experience. With your permission, I would be willing to conduct further tests and recreation attempts for more data. If permission is granted, please note my Character Name signed to the attached letter for your records. Your granted permission will be kept for my records. If permission is denied, I will make no attempts to continue investigating this possible bug.

--Signed,
_______________ (should be the exact character name you were using at the time so it can be referred back to Anets logs)

Once you've written that letter, leave your game area that you found it in and wait for a response to your message. There's no point in proceeding if a possible reply is "Please Do Not attempt to recreate this bug. We are aware of this..........", or whatever reason they give.

Anyways, that's the way I've gone about it in another game I used to play that was ridden with bugs and exploits. Not just 4, or 5, but in the Hundreds.

Cuthroat Dibbler · Jan 12, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountAristotle

..then they better e-mail AND call all 117 people to inform them of such a thing. Or else they'll have a hell of a lot of false advertisement lawsuits on their hands come GW2. And I highly doubt that A-Net has a stout legal team to handle it, considering they don't even have a phone number to call to deal with issues.

Count Pointing-Out-The-Obvious

They have a "criminal record" with NCsoft now. Arguably ANY registration of a 117 player should alert NCSoft an undesirable is on the network and they would (at least I would hope) they remove the offender from the system immediately.

As for the now disgruntled wannabe GW2 player...send the game back to NCSoft, they'll refund you as per the User Agreement.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 12, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Sounds like a great approach Sonata. We really need something like this either in the support forms, or maybe in the report command.

E.g /report Exploit. then all the above are auto filled in.

Banned was Erin · Jan 12, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I too am among the 117 that outsiders have come to despise as a result of the outright lies that have been told to the general public. Believe us or not, let it be known that we are not hackers. I teach math for a living, I’m not some computer whiz that would even have the first idea on how to hack a game. If someone with as little computer knowledge as me has the ability to hack a sophisticated gaming system such as Guild Wars, I think they have far larger issues to look at. I personally would be weary of giving them any of your credit card information if this is the kind of security they have in place…“hacked” by 117 people and it took them months to do anything about it.

You want to know how little they actually know about what is going on? They have sent private messages to some of us 117 asking us about how we did this. This is, of course, after receiving emails from support saying logs have been rigorously reviewed and they know exactly what we did, and how many times we did it. Seems rather contradictory on their part. If you know what we did and how often we did it so well, why are you having to ask us how to use this glitch?

You want to know another lie that has continued to be upheld as truth? That we had to do this repeatedly and an excessive number of times for it to result in a ban. A close friend of mine who had a character on an alternate account saved to the town, that never even did the mission once, had their account banned. So what is this lie about you must have done the mission at least 4 times for it to result in a ban? Once again this shows how careless they have been in the information they throw out there to the rest of you.

It is absolutely despicable that a formal apology has not been issued for those who have had both their online and real life character defamed by the lies that have been posted about us. They know that we are not hackers, yet they continue to label us as so. If you want to hold us accountable for our actions, hold them accountable for their libel as well. Not a single one of us hacked this game at any point. Apparently many of you cannot grasp that concept because of the lies that have been told about us, but I swear to you it is the truth, and I cannot emphasize this point enough.

This town which we visited was left in the game from hen beta testers were using it. We in no way had to hack Guild Wars to visit it. It was a real location in the game. It showed up on our maps as the Domain of Anguish. There was a button that allowed us to start the mission. We had to fight through the entire mission, just as you would if you entered Citadel any other way. Does that honestly seem like anything was hacked? No. We traveled to this location via our guild hall much as people have ferried to Urgoz, The Deep and various other locations. Being a party leader did not mean you hacked anything, for I at times had been a party leader. The only requirement to enter this town was that you had beat all four areas of DoA, and Mallyx at least once the old fashion way.

Like many others who were banned, I had no need to exploit this glitch for money. I had nearly 30 maxed titles, stacks of legitimately earned ectos in the bank, money in storage, FoW armor, completely runed out and equipped heroes, etc, etc. For nearly two years, and over a span of more than 4500 hours, I never participated in anything remotely in breach of the User Agreement. I have never sought to undermine or endanger any aspect of this game, I have only ever sought so have fun with individuals I have become very close with since I started.

At this point it is not even about the termination of my account, but the fact that I, as well as friends that are very dear to me, have repeatedly been subjugated to defamation of their character. I am not asking for my account to be returned, but I am asking that they step up and admit they lied to you all when they said we hacked, and also that you had to do this mission at least 4 times to be banned. Please tell these people the truth, because clearly they do not listen when it comes from us.

This will be both my first, last, and only comment on this matter. I have seen from previous posts, it doesn’t seem to matter what the truth is, people have already made up their minds on what to believe in this matter. Everything I have said has been completely truthful, it is your choice to believe it or continue to listen to the lies.

Bryant Again · Jan 12, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

lol how would you know what they do? believe everything you read/hear eh?

...What? It says "developed by ANet" on the box. I think if they developed it then they are allowed to do whatever they'd like with their game.

I consider a "shortcut that goes straight to Mallyx" to be there for testing purposes. If you've play tested the areas prior to him a large amount of times and you just need to test Mallyx, why would you spend all the time going through all of the other areas again when you know they work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

I am not saying they do, i am saying they could and you wouldnt know.

Again, it's a game that THEY made for US. They can do whatever they want for testing.