Curse

arcanemacabre · Dec 04, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Who will be left? The people who want to pug.

QFT !

AuraofMana · Dec 04, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Who will be left? The people who have to to pug because no one is left.

Changed for accuracy.

arcanemacabre · Dec 04, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Changed for accuracy.

Really? So you mean all these people who complain about social this and multiplayer that really mean they only want to play with others because they feel they have to?

Isileth · Dec 04, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Changed for accuracy.

Im not sure I understand your change actually.

The change would allow for those who prefer pugging to carry on pugging.
And for those who prefer to go solo to have access to full team builds and all the extra goodness that provides.

Redvex · Dec 04, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

I agree...why do I need or want 3 ele heroes

Acolyte Sousuke
Zhed Shadowhoof
Vekk

Guess they want you to play hero battles

Are you kidding? 3 sf hero make any dungeon/coop/quest a lot easier

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redvex

Are you kidding? 3 sf hero make any dungeon/coop/quest a lot easier

And if you solo that dungeon, you're expected to keep those 3 SF heroes alive with rubbish hench monks. Thats assuming that outpost has two monk henches to use, because not all do ingame.

Restricting us to 3 heroes means we have to make sacrifices on what would have otherwise been a better AI team had we been able to use 7 heroes.

You basically have to decide "right; which AI do I want to be more intelligent and have more control over, while making do with less AI for the rest."

You can't make a skilful team that way, because your choosing the lesser of 7 evils to be the 3 heroes, while using what ever is left over to support them.

Redvex · Dec 04, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

And if you solo that dungeon, you're expected to keep those 3 SF heroes alive with rubbish hench monks. Thats assuming that outpost has two monk henches to use, because not all do ingame.

Restricting us to 3 heroes means we have to make sacrifices on what would have otherwise been a better AI team had we been able to use 7 heroes.

You basically have to decide "right; which AI do I want to be more intelligent and have more control over, while making do with less AI for the rest."

You can't make a skilful team that way, because your choosing the lesser of 7 evils to be the 3 heroes, while using what ever is left over to support them.

I finish all dungeon except kathandrax and duncan with 3 sf hero.
I'm agree with you only for Doa 'cause there's not hench.
Using 7 heros however don' hel with socialize

Bryant Again · Dec 04, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Who will be left? The people who want to pug.

And how many will be left?

Isileth · Dec 04, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And how many will be left?

Does it matter?
All the people who want to pug will still pug.
All the people who dont want to pug, wont pug.

Everyone wins.
No one is forced into a type of gameplay they dont like.

Bryant Again · Dec 04, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Does it matter?

Yes? The less people there are to PUG, the less PUGs there will be.

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redvex

I finish all dungeon except kathandrax and duncan with 3 sf hero.
I'm agree with you only for Doa 'cause there's not hench.
Using 7 heros however don' hel with socialize

Dont get me wrong, im not saying you cant do these dungeons with henchs or heroes. My entire point is they shouldnt be mixing henches and heroes anymoer. Because your mixing two AI technologies in one game.

Henches should have been and should be updated to be as usefull or as functional as heroes to make up for this 3 hero limit. Let us see their skills, let us control them individually and alike.

Maybe not change their skills, but maybe give us a choice of 3 or 4 builds per hench to choose from. We can pay to change them for a tiny fee of 10-50g.

An elemental hench might offer a fire, water, air and earth build to use. We couldnt change their build make-up, but we could change the build they use.

Isileth · Dec 04, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yes? The less people there are to PUG, the less PUGs there will be.

So rather than that, we should stop others playing how they want so that puggers dont have to wait as long to get a team?

The people who want to pug will be pugging.
The people who dont want to pug wont be.

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

So rather than that, we should stop others playing how they want so that puggers dont have to wait as long to get a team?

The people who want to pug will be pugging.
The people who dont want to pug wont be.

I have to second that. Adding 7 heroes isnt going to suddently convert those who love to PUG to drop everything and only use heroes.

Those who already pug will continue to and those who dont wont. I used to be an anti pug person because of the attitudes and the time it took to get teams, but then I started to PUG.

But I only PUG when I want to have a bit more fun and some feeling of team work. Other times I use AI and I would love to use 7 heroes if I had the choice.

But it wouldnt stop me using PUGs because there will always be times Id rather work with humans and have a feeling of real team work.

Dev121 · Dec 04, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Obviously anyone that disagrees with you must be a noob, because the world revolves around you. That mish can be H/Hed even in HM, as evident by my Guardian of Tyria.
The other parts of your post doesn't matter. You mentioned you don't care. Since you don't, you don't need to come in this thread and keep the flame burning.
And yes, the media would actually quote that. You overestimate the intelligence of the media.
Stop posting about this if you don't care. No one really cares about your "I AM SO LEET I DON'T NEED 7 HEROES LOLOLOL!!!11" Brag somewhere else.

I lol'd when I first read this.
Second time I pity you.

I dont have guardian of tryia, I have guardian of cantha but thats irrelevant, also this thread isnt about titles its about idiots needing extra help, this one will be brutally honest. I also said I'd like 7 heroes in HM, NM is too easy to require 7. Think I'm bragging? Then go get some skill, its not really hard anymore, everyone will tell you heroes made the game easier thats why both of your posts now have failed.
You keep quoting me to make the same comment, are you jealous that I have an opinion? You'll answer no, if not then dont even bother but to be honest it is my opinion

Normal Mode: 3 heroes = Fine
Hard Mode: 3 heroes = Fine but could be altered to be made less frustrating.

The purpose of threads is so people can share opinions, I tell you mine and you bash it, thats why I dont care. Titles are also irelevant, I dont play for titles I play for fun...bragging? Grow up? If I wanted to brag I'd put titles in my avatar, If I wanted to brag i'd post all my items in screenshot section, I dont thou? (I have done once, sue me, people have better anyway but its all the nature of a MMO game). What you have to understand is people arent all like you, if you cant beat normal mode im sorry for you but try reading 'New Players' translation: Noob section on wiki to give you help on how to sort your attributes. If you have beat it (maybe your r6 KOABD, I dont know) then your only here to bash my posts, which is either because your sad or because your jealous.... I love you anyway.

Isileth · Dec 04, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

DeVaNeY121.

This is not about difficulty. Everyone is well aware the game can be completed with h/h.

Its about limiting a whole playstyle. You are forced to take 4 set builds and then you have to change the other 4 to support and cover their weakness.

A lot of the game is in coming up with different team builds, being able to use different playstyle and play the game in different ways. By having 4 henchmen you are very limited.

7 heroes would allow for full team builds, a vast variety of different playstyles and greater access to the game.

Bryant Again · Dec 04, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

So rather than that, we should stop others playing how they want so that puggers dont have to wait as long to get a team?

The shorter time period it takes and the easier it is to form pugs, the better. When the most experienced players play by themselves and when the inexperienced are forced to learn in a harsh manner, anything that helps the pug populus is good imo.

Of course, I feel that the whole forced party system in GW is pretty shitty in itself. Fun, but with consequences (as shown in this thread).

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

*snippet* Because your mixing two AI technologies in one game.

I'll say it again: Henchies and heroes have the same AI, i.e. they're both just as stupid. It's the customization and modes (attack, gaurd, passive) that make them different. Aside from that, they're both dumb and on the same level of idiocy. That's why you have to be pretty careful about what builds you give your heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

An elemental hench might offer a fire, water, air and earth build to use. We couldnt change their build make-up, but we could change the build they use.

Or you can choose which hench to bring. All the content after NF (and a bit in Factions) provided a lot of henchmen choices. It even said their professions: Cynn [Fire Henchmen] and Herta [Earth Henchmen]. The confusing bit were the monks, Khim and Mhenlo. They both said "Healing" but Khim was actually Protection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

The people who want to pug will be pugging.
The people who dont want to pug wont be.

You've been saying this over and over. Likewise, I've been saying "anything can happen and we have no idea what will," and "yes they can pug, but how much harder will it be?" over and over - and neither of us have more evidence, proof, etc. than the other. I think we both need to shut the hell up about this.

Vulkanyaz · Dec 04, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I'm all for 7 heroes....

Otherwise I'll just stick to my 3 heroes + 4/X hench tyvm

Isileth · Dec 04, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The shorter time period it takes and the easier it is to form pugs, the better. When the most experienced players play by themselves and when the inexperienced are forced to learn in a harsh manner, anything that helps the pug populus is good imo.

However taking more time to form a pug doesnt limit what the pug can do.
Having a limit on 3 heroes obviousely limits a solo player.

Its a small non critical (in that it wouldnt stop them from doing anything they can now) change that would allow for a major extremely critical (In that its the main part of going solo with AI) change.

Quote:

You've been saying this over and over. Likewise, I've been saying "anything can happen and we have no idea what will," and "yes they can pug, but how much harder will it be?" over and over - and neither of us have more evidence, proof, etc. than the other. I think we both need to shut the hell up about this.

However thats anything within certain facts we know.

Some people prefer to pug.
People who prefer to pug will choose to pug.
People who prefer to solo currently use h/h.
The majority of people who would switch to 7 heroes would be players who currently solo.

All those people that want to pug will still be pugging.

What suprises me is that you say you dont support the change because it "might" have an impact on a non critical part of pugging.
Yet the current system has a huge impact on the main part of solo play.

Now if it was only a minor increase to solo play that stopped people from forming pugs then obviousely I would agree with you and wouldnt be supporting this.

Its alone the whole lines of "Would you kill 1 man to save 10?".

While both options end in someones playstyle being reduced, is it not better to pick the one that reduces least and improves the most?

Vinraith · Dec 04, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Maybe not change their skills, but maybe give us a choice of 3 or 4 builds per hench to choose from. We can pay to change them for a tiny fee of 10-50g.

An elemental hench might offer a fire, water, air and earth build to use. We couldnt change their build make-up, but we could change the build they use.

If we're going to be forced to build our heroes around henchmen, then this would be a reasonable way to allow greater party diversity and whanot. Of course, they'd have to let us take them in elite areas too, even if it is suicidal.

Bryant Again · Dec 04, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

What suprises me is that you say you dont support the change because it "might" have an impact on a non critical part of pugging.-

And it might do more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

-Yet the current system has a huge impact on the main part of solo play.

Because in solo play I can enjoy the whole game. I can play through every area and on any difficulty and can kill every monster and boss.

Not only that, I don't really see it revitalizing the game for me a whole lot. If I had the ability to use 4 more heroes, wouldn't it just lower the difficulty? These are my personal opinions why I'm no longer as excited as I was about 7 heroes. Keep reading to see why I'm worried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Now if it was only a minor increase to solo play that stopped people from forming pugs then obviousely I would agree with you and wouldnt be supporting this.

I used to agree with this as well. I mean read the earlier pages, I was in full support of this!

But after experiencing other updates changes in other MMOs and seeing how the playerbase reacted, I don't want ANet to take any chances. Anything can happen.

And even though this is not an MMO, that's exactly the kind of crowd ANet has been given - and that sucks, because MMO playerbases are generally some of the worst I've seen (next to RTS players, dear god yuck).