Curse

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

orison is trash.
bring healing whisper

henchmen don't use ZB on themselves. Thought you should know.

Orison is not trash, its a very solid self heal and a long range heal too. Whisper is trash, he wouldnt be able to heal himself if he had whisper!.

I know Henchmen dont use ZB on themselves, but theres always two monks healing each other. Khim and Lina work just great, my bar is slightly better.

Qual · Aug 30, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

First of all bhavv, it sounds like you guildies are plain stupid, why didn't you bring an interrup on a hero like the rest of us would do (I have prot of cantha on 2chars)?? It sounds like the people you know is the reason why people don't pug anymore... No offense....

wolfwing, you mention Diablo 2, tell me how many profs other than the hammerdin could solo Ball in hell ?

YunSooJin · Aug 30, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Orison is not trash, its a very solid self heal and a long range heal too. Whisper is trash, he wouldnt be able to heal himself if he had whisper!.

I know Henchmen dont use ZB on themselves, but theres always two monks healing each other. Khim and Lina work just great, my bar is slightly better.

lol? What do you have another monk for?

Orison is not trash? This is the reason why I gave up responding to people about their bars on gurus/online. This is why I don't PUG.

The reason why orison sucks has been hashed over and over so many times that it's just funny that its been over 2 years and we're still discussing this.

Orison is trash. Find another skill.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If henchmen suck altogether, then why oh why are you able to complete all of NM in the whole game of Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall and HM in Tyria? Am I missing something here?

I managed but it was hard. The point is that I would also enjoy using my own builds a lot more. I would prefer not to end up pulling my hair out when I start vanquishing with hench. Im sure it can be done, but its painful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I disagree with the problem. I think the problem you are having is because you haven't used other options which are available. Warriors bring a lot of utility and great amount of damage, necro's are great with their hexes and have a lot of utility such as BoP, MM, tainted flesh, SS.

I think I ought to reword that. I have never used a Necro or Warrior hero except for in Dzagonurs bation and Against shirro. However when I play HM with my guild, one always plays on his necro, and another on his warrior that I have no problem with because they are great at it. But with heros I prefer my own builds that synergise with my skills, and Melee heroes are just bad beyond bad (Meloni was chasing after her own targets regardless of my calling in Jokunur Diggings).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So henchmen are useful if you are able to complete all of NM and HM in Tyria. But maybe you should try other people's build because it could turn things around? Because with the mentality of "my build works better than others" it seems you don't even know since you haven't even tried other people's builds!

I have tried other peoples builds who are you to say I havnt? And yes mine do work better. I would rather have an Extra SF, A warder or a splinter wep / Critical barrager, beacause they do the most DPS. Mobs fall in seconds in my groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

First of all bhavv, it sounds like you guildies are plain stupid, why didn't you bring an interrup on a hero like the rest of us would do (I have prot of cantha on 2chars)?? It sounds like the people you know is the reason why people don't pug anymore... No offense....

No your just being plain ignorant. We always have hero interupters without fail. They dont seem to be able to interupt very well though. We always try to get human monks and interupters, but there is never anyone available to play them.

You have prot of cantha and? I have Legenday protector, Legendary skill hunter, R7 HA (quit a long time ago), R3 Glad, And am working on the last two gaurdians and last carto TY. I do have a full time job as well, so I dont get much time. I would like to get more titles, and yes having 7 heroes would make it so much more possible.

Winterclaw · Aug 30, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Just because someone is running it doesn't make it a good build. I've made bad ones and I've seen others make bad builds. Then there are bad builds for heroes that would work fine if a good player was running it. Finally you have the problem where people aren't exactly taught how to be good players most of the time.

Omniclasm · Aug 30, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because my Guildies are usually doing something else? We have actually tried Eternal Grove / Vizunah / Unwaking waters with a few people. We very nearly completed Unwaking waters, but then failed before getting to the end the next two tries. We only had 3 people, 2 on one side full hero party, Me on the other side heroes + hench. We put a lot of consideration and effort into the build, but my side kept getting pwned (Was relying on Gita + Daeman too much, who arent bad but could be a lot beter!). In the end the other two gave up and I'm left on my own.

7 heroes on both sides would be /win.

I forget to add Gyala hatchery to the list too. Its four missions totally peeving me and my guildies off, only because we can never get enough players.

BTW...get better.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8327/gw029cz7.jpg

first try....all hench on other team.

9:46, more than 5 minutes ahead of the Master's cut off of 15.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

lol? What do you have another monk for?

Orison is not trash? This is the reason why I gave up responding to people about their bars on gurus/online. This is why I don't PUG.

The reason why orison sucks has been hashed over and over so many times that it's just funny that its been over 2 years and we're still discussing this.

Orison is trash. Find another skill.

Erm, 8 man teams usually have 2 monks in them?

Do you mind explaining what is trash about a 5e 70 heal every two seconds that is unlimited by range or target? Orison is a great heal, people that think it isnt lack understanding of healing altogether.

YunSooJin · Aug 30, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Erm, 8 man teams usually have 2 monks in them?

Do you mind explaining what is trash about a 5e 70 heal every two seconds that is unlimited by range or target? Orison is a great heal, people that think it isnt lack understanding of healing altogether.

Point per point, orison is a worse heal. If you calculate X health healed per 1 energy, orison consistently comes out as the worst.

Not only that, its low recharge fools people into thinking that its a good heal, simply because they can spam it. In fact, they're doing themselves a disservice by making the least of their energy pool on a skill that gives them less bang for buck, every single time.

I always bring 2 monks in an 8 man team. Or, at least 2 healer types. I don't honestly see myself being able to vanquish or do HM missions any other way.

Winterclaw · Aug 30, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Orison belongs on a heal monk skill bar most of the time IMO. It's cheap, it's quick, it acts as a step between no healing and lotsa healing, and it makes a great follow up.

YunSooJin · Aug 30, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Orison belongs on a heal monk skill bar most of the time IMO. It's cheap, it's quick, it acts as a step between no healing and lotsa healing, and it makes a great follow up.

So you're telling me it's better than nothing?

I agree, orison would be great if there were no other healing skills in healing prayers or protection prayers.

Your statement about 'follow up' seems pretty meaningless.

Omniclasm · Aug 30, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Orison is an average skill. It requires nothing special, and it does nothing special.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

So you're telling me it's better than nothing?

I agree, orison would be great if there were no other healing skills in healing prayers or protection prayers.

Your statement about 'follow up' seems pretty meaningless.

#

This is going very off topic, but lets say it this way. Whisper heals for more yes. But it is half range and target other ally. Only having Whisper, Dwaynas kiss and LoD would pretty much be suicide for a healer as he wouldnt be able to heal himself. The other alternatives anre Words of comfort, which heals for more if the condition is met, but takes twice as long to recharge. And removing conditions is a bigger priority then healing them. Then theres Healing Touch, which is a good self heal, but a long recharge and putting a touch range heal on the AI is just stupid. Finally theres Ethereal Light which heals the most but is easilly interuptable. Not really going to do you much good while your being attacked unledd your using HB.

Orison is pretty much the most solid all round healing spell out of all the 5e healing spells. The healing bar I posted is very solid, orison is the Self heal and back up heal for party members in the bar. Dwaynas and Ribbon are the primary heals for other targets obviously.

Omniclasm · Aug 30, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because my Guildies are usually doing something else? We have actually tried Eternal Grove / Vizunah / Unwaking waters with a few people. We very nearly completed Unwaking waters, but then failed before getting to the end the next two tries. We only had 3 people, 2 on one side full hero party, Me on the other side heroes + hench. We put a lot of consideration and effort into the build, but my side kept getting pwned (Was relying on Gita + Daeman too much, who arent bad but could be a lot beter!). In the end the other two gave up and I'm left on my own.

7 heroes on both sides would be /win.

I forget to add Gyala hatchery to the list too. Its four missions totally peeving me and my guildies off, only because we can never get enough players.

BTW...get better.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8327/gw029cz7.jpg

first try....all hench on other team.

9:46, more than 5 minutes ahead of the Master's cut off of 15.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You cannot beat Eternal Grove, Unwaking Waters and Vizunah square with just two people on HM. Why dont you go try it? Obviously because your too noob for HM.

Bhavv, response please?

YunSooJin · Aug 30, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

#

This is going very off topic, but lets say it this way. Whisper heals for more yes. But it is half range and target other ally. Only having Whisper, Dwaynas kiss and LoD would pretty much be suicide for a healer as he wouldnt be able to heal himself. The other alternatives anre Words of comfort, which heals for more if the condition is met, but takes twice as long to recharge. And removing conditions is a bigger priority then healing them. Then theres Healing Touch, which is a good self heal, but a long recharge and putting a touch range heal on the AI is just stupid. Finally theres Ethereal Light which heals the most but is easilly interuptable. Not really going to do you much good while your being attacked unledd your using HB.

Orison is pretty much the most solid all round healing spell out of all the 5e healing spells. The healing bar I posted is very solid, orison is the Self heal and back up heal for party members in the bar. Dwaynas and Ribbon are the primary heals for other targets obviously.

I'll agree with you if you only bring 1 henchmen that can heal in your parties.

Otherwise the fact that a skill is 'other ally' shouldn't be a problem, assuming you have two backline healers.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Bhavv, response please?

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I'll agree with you if you only bring 1 henchmen that can heal in your parties.

Otherwise the fact that a skill is 'other ally' shouldn't be a problem, assuming you have two backline healers.

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

Omniclasm · Aug 30, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

So that means it is possible, you are just not competent enough for it? So the game should be made easier for you?

DreamRunner · Aug 30, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I managed but it was hard. The point is that I would also enjoy using my own builds a lot more. I would prefer not to end up pulling my hair out when I start vanquishing with hench. Im sure it can be done, but its painful.

I have tried other peoples builds who are you to say I havnt? And yes mine do work better. I would rather have an Extra SF, A warder or a splinter wep / Critical barrager, beacause they do the most DPS. Mobs fall in seconds in my groups.

The point is that you want the luxury of wanting to use your own builds for the whole group? I thought the point was about henchmen sucking or not. And it seems they don't since you CAN progress through the game with them.

Who am I to say you haven't? A GW player by saying its not hard because if you did you wouldn't be such a big problem in complete mission such as Unwaking waters in HM in which also OmniClasm had just finished.

bhavv · Aug 30, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

So that means it is possible, you are just not competent enough for it? So the game should be made easier for you?

No it isnt being made easier, all I required in Unwaking waters was better monk henchmen like the GWEN ones. It would have been fine then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

The point is that you want the luxury of wanting to use your own builds for the whole group? I thought the point was about henchmen sucking or not. And it seems they don't since you CAN progress through the game with them.

The point is I enjoy customising my 7 skill bars and heroes and playing the way I want to play the game. And henchmen sucking is another reason. I would like to just make my 7 bars that would get through everything just fine. Im sure that is what the point that everyone saying yay wants? Also cos we hate pugs?

Omniclasm · Aug 30, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

Barrage fails, Crossfire is a horrible skill, your Paragon has "They're on Fire!" but no way to cause burning, and no attack skills on his bar. You have no Deep Wound in your team setup, and you have no defensive skills except for SYG.

Defense isn't solely the monks job, defense is a team effort. You+Heroes contribute none to defense.

Edit: You are SF, so there is burning for "They're on Fire!", even though it is still just focused on 1 or 2, maybe 3 people.
Edit2: Reliable Deep Wound.

YunSooJin · Aug 30, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

It's ironic that we have someone complaining that he doesn't want to use pugs because 'pugs are noob', but then he goes around stuffing orison in his bars.