Curse

freekedoutfish · Jan 15, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

"There have been no plans as to the releasing the BMP at a later date".

Is not the same as "we will never be releasing the BMP at a later date", which is my entire point.

They didnt say they werent going to, they said they had no plans to. Plans can change quickly in business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

Printing of packaging and manuals, production of the CD (or printing gamecode card) organisation of a worldwide distribution. Surely that would take a lot more than 2 months from 'we have no plans' or 'it would be unfeasible' etc to where we are now....... released next week.

I am more convinced than ever that they lied to us.

How do you know the BMP retail is going to include any of that? You dont!

It will most likely to be nothing but a CD with some cover art and nothing but a DVD case or cardboard cover, with the KEY stuck on the inside somewhere. It wont be some massive work of art with a map, manual or art work inside.

CDs and DVD covers can be run of extremely fast and very cheaply! Its called mass-production and its not hard for a large company like Anet to mass-produce thousands of copies within a few weeks.

I seriously doubt any large planning went into it.

Ork Pride · Jan 15, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Totally agree on this one, actually. They need to own up (if they haven't already) and do something about this. A simple fix would be to give the BMP to anyone who did qualify with purchases to the NCSoft store, followed by a huge apology.

Anet would never acknowledge the fact that they made a mistake.

Puritans Aid · Jan 15, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

It's so sad. Its now so not special. I guess it doesnt matter to me now but, if it did I would be sad. Now instead of only leet players who bought 3 or 4 char slots for the BMP, everyone will have teh char axe. Poop.

Mordakai · Jan 15, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

It's so sad. Its now so not special. I guess it doesnt matter to me now but, if it did I would be sad. Now instead of only leet players who bought 3 or 4 char slots for the BMP, everyone will have teh char axe. Poop.

I assume this is sarcasm, I don't think the elitist argument works.

Some people are upset because they feel like they were misled, not because everyone can now get the BMP.

In fact, if the BMP was being released with exactly the same conditions, I doubt you'd have any complaints at all. It's the price point and the timing that has some people mad.

Croco Clouds · Jan 15, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

It's so sad. Its now so not special. I guess it doesnt matter to me now but, if it did I would be sad. Now instead of only leet players who bought 3 or 4 char slots for the BMP, everyone will have teh char axe. Poop.

Why having char axe is leet? I saw many corpses (used by MM) in AB that have BMP weapons... Time to farm some humans in AB!

Leo Incendie · Jan 15, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I'm really not quite understanding how people can be so upset because the BMP is being sold now.

Perhaps you don't understand the definition of a bonus? Allow me to define it for you, then. "Something free, as an EXTRA dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities." (Taken from dictionary.com)

I believe what is being mistaken here, is that people think they paid earlier for the BMP. That's plain out wrong. You paid for other things (GW:EN, or char slots, PvP whatever packs) IN ORDER TO get the BMP. ArenaNet had no obligation to give it to us, and I myself (having bought GW:EN through the online store) received the BMP with the other few who did as well.

Did you not see this coming? ArenaNet isn't here to make friends, or to make their customers feel good. "The Customer is Always Right!" line is a bunch of bullshit that you hear when you work in fast food or low end sales, because that particular place requires good service to keep it's company. Ever wonder why people at McDonald's are usually rude? It's because they can be. They have no reason to be nice. Sure, my limited experience at working a fast food restaurant I was overall cheerful and whatnot, but that's only because I had no reason not to be otherwise. ArenaNet doesn't need to to cater to the feelings of it's players. It doesn't matter if they lose players because they decided to sell the BMP separately. This isn't a game with a monthly fee. You've already paid your money to them for the game. They have what they want from you, and there is nothing more. It isn't cruel, or emotionless, or disheartening. It's business. If they begin to lose so many players that the overall rate of change in the game is that more players are leaving then coming, then they may have something to worry about. But that isn't happening, and it won't anytime soon. So, why should they need to?

People like Gaile Grey's positions and job titles aren't understood by the masses. Gaile isn't here to cater to your whims and needs. She's here to placate you. She never ONCE said "We will not release the Bonus Mission Pack at a later date." She said, "There are no plans currently to release it at a future date." Well guess what? Things change. Have you ever been going out to dinner, thinking you know what you want, and all of sudden gone somewhere else because the wait wasn't as long, or you craved something else suddenly? You just changed your plans, without thinking you were going to earlier. We all do it. ArenaNet has to do what it has to do in order to make money; it's simple economics.

The BMP is just what it says; a bonus. You paid for whatever cost you 30$ and received the BMP as well. If you go a grocery store, and see your favorite soda on special for "Buy 2 cases get a third free" and then come in a week later to find the same soda being sold for 2/3 the original price, what right do you have to complain?

The BMP was a lure to get us hooked on some new item skins, and bit of lore for the PvE players. They dropped the bait, and a few of us took a nibble. Now the rest of us have a chance to go for it, and I say go ahead.

I'm not mad, depressed, or angry over it. Of course it was coming, you have to be mental to not see that. If your old enough to be able to make a purchase on a credit card (by yourself) you should know the basics of capitalism. Any less than that, and you have no one to blame but yourself for being uneducated.

-Leo

mcsumo · Jan 15, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Thanks for that lovely definition. I did realise the meaning which is why it supported the view that Anet wanted the more gullible and trusting of us to believe.

You see it was always called the Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack.

It was not called Guild Wars Mission Pack, available for a short time as a bonus.

It was created as the Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack purely as a thank you for using the online store. That is what we were told by a paid Anet employee, their community liaison officer. If we can't believe her on an issue like this who can we believe?

I still do not believe that a world wide release of a product can go from inception to release date in less than 2 months.

I am not upset that the BMP can now be bought by others who perhaps couldn't get it before. But I am upset that Anet knew how many people believed it was a one way only deal and let us spend money we would not otherwise have done. They deliberately deceived us even under direct questioning as to its availability.

EDIT. You know what really pisses me off the most about this? The way Anet have turned around and said 'we never said that' 'there is nothing wrong with what we are doing' etc etc. All it would take to make those of us who were deceived a whole lot better is a simple apology. 'Sorry for misleading you at the time and for effectively penalising you for supporting us as per the terms of initial release'.

Some sort of refund would be nice too. Maybe they could take back my 3 unneeded slots and refund me £8? I would still be paying more for the BMP but at least it would be better than the 'Tough shit sucker!! lol' line that they are taking now. For those who bought GW:EN itself, maybe they could offer them the option of sending out the box/manuals?

IDK. Just right now this is the worst customer care I have ever encountered

Mordakai · Jan 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo Incendie

I'm really not quite understanding how people can be so upset because the BMP is being sold now.

I believe what is being mistaken here, is that people think they paid earlier for the BMP. That's plain out wrong. You paid for other things (GW:EN, or char slots, PvP whatever packs) IN ORDER TO get the BMP.

You're correct. You do not understand.

Most of us would have not:

1) either paid full price for GWEN on the online store, or

2) bought more useless character slots

In order to qualify to get the BMP if we knew it would be available in 2 months for $10.

(The PvP packs were actually removed from the online store, and the new discounted ones not released until after the BMP promotion expired. So you'll excuse me if it all seems a little cynical for my taste.)

freekedoutfish · Jan 15, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

I still do not believe that a world wide release of a product can go from inception to release date in less than 2 months.

1) The software existed long before now.
2) You only need to burn it to CDs.
3) The CDs need covers.
4) A DVD cover needs printed.
5) DVD cases need supplied.
6) Add all those together.

Result = the BMP retail version.

7) Ship the BMP retail versons!

How is that not do-able in 2 months? Its very easily done!

You can very easily argue they didnt have this planned until recently. Again im not saying they did this right, they didnt. But they also NEVER stated the BMP would never be re-released. Find me the quote saying otherwise and Ill agree with you.

kainmodious · Jan 15, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Im willing to admit that I protested about it being sold as part of the promotion, even thouh I realistically knew it would be sold later as a solo item. But that was out of principle at them doing it that way first.
It was a bad way to do it and now we're feeling the impacts on those who paid more for it.

Sorry freekedout but i see you as nothing but contridicting yourself and trying to make it look good . Try posting something that is helpfull and stop saying the same crap a differnt way. and check you past post to make sure you dont step on your own foot.

Earlyer in the post you said everyone got it for the same price now people have paid more for it , which is it?

And i highly doubt that you "realistically knew it would be sold later" or else you wouldnt have even bothered to post anything about it

Sorry but this is just the way i see all your posts

freekedoutfish · Jan 15, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kainmodious

Sorry freekedout but i see you as nothing but contridicting yourself and trying to make it look good . Try posting something that is helpfull and stop saying the same crap a differnt way. and check you past post to make sure you dont step on your own foot.

Earlyer in the post you said everyone got it for the same price now people have paid more for it , which is it?

And i highly doubt that you "realistically knew it would be sold later" or else you wouldnt have even bothered to post anything about it

Sorry but this is just the way i see all your posts

If I never thought it would have been sold later, I would have bought it you muppet! I do really want the BMP!

And if you paid for the BMP buy purchasing item you didnt need from the online store, then you did pay for it.

But if you bought it by buyng something you wanted like GWEN, then you didnt. It all depends if you spent the £17+ on items you wanted or needed from the store.

If you just spent £18 on any old sh*t in the store just to qualify then you were a complete and utter muppet for falling for such an obvious trick.

But if you bought it as part of GWEN, then you have nothing to complain about because your paying the same as we are who bought it elsewhere and are now paying the BMP alone.

And I dont care whether you believe me or not, but it was pretty obvious from the start it would eventually become a stand alone item in the store. Wether I joined the protest to ensure that makes no difference, because Im welcome to protest if I wish to... even I think the end result will happen anyway.

mcsumo · Jan 15, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

1) The software existed long before now.
2) You only need to burn it to CDs.
3) The CDs need covers.
4) A DVD cover needs printed.
5) DVD cases need supplied.
6) Add all those together.

Result = the BMP retail version.

7) Ship the BMP retail versons!

How is that not do-able in 2 months? Its very easily done!

.

Well seeing as you have already stated your area of expertise is supermarket customer care, forgive me for wanting somebody elses view on this.

I remember reading 'developer diaries' in magazines etc and I am pretty sure box art etc was something that had to be finalised months before release.

And as for shipping....you believe Anet ship directly? Oh yeah 10 for that store in Newcastle, 5 for that store in Korea etc etc. No it needs to be shipped in bulk, suppliers need to collate their orders then ship to individual stores. Just moving a pallet between countries can involve an OBSCENE amount of red tape. Believe me I have some experience of that.

The sheer logistics of a getting product in place for a worldwide release make the timescale they want us to believe unlikely.

Mork from Ork · Jan 15, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

The sheer logistics of a getting product in place for a worldwide release make the timescale they want us to believe unlikely.

Let's not forget Gaile used to agree with you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray;5240388

We have a group of experienced and trained sales and marketing professionals looking at this matter, members of a multi-billion-dollar corporation. Like game design suggestions, pretty much any option that someone external can think of is likely to have been proposed, explored, and either accepted and implemented, rejected, or found to be non-implementable at this time.
.................

Retail? At what cost? The stores would want a large percentage of the sales price, and the costs of goods are high, and are paid by the manufacturer/publisher. Packaging, key cards, CDs, signage, posters for the store, online and print ads to support the sales (retailers expect that), and more are part of those costs. So again, for what cost? If you put too high a price on the product, players complain it's not worth the cost. Too low, and... here it comes... we're giving it away because our costs exceed the income.

................
Game card through retailers? Not something we are able to do yet, but believe me I suggested it years ago, too, and as it turns out, NCsoft said they have some ideas on the subject. We'll see about this one; it would be great for the future but just isn't do-able now. Keep in mind, though, that again, any retailers offering the cards for sale will probably keep half of the purchase price, which definitely eats into the profits, when we're assuming the cost of the production, promotion, etc.

Lol - apparently "the future" was 60 days - I suppose technically that qualifies.

But I would have to be pretty dumb not to think they were setting this up 2 months ago.

(I can't help wondering if part of this is because the "multi-billion dollar" company NCSoft is kind of hurting for cash. Their earnings were way down 3rd quarter of 2007 (-44%) even with a 57% boost to Guild wars because of EotN, Tabula Rasa had a lukewarm release, and they just announced today that they are canceling their deal with spacetime for an online game - still doesn't excuse fibbing to customers though)

Bazompora · Jan 15, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

And as for shipping....you believe Anet ship directly? Oh yeah 10 for that store in Newcastle, 5 for that store in Korea etc etc. No it needs to be shipped in bulk, suppliers need to collate their orders then ship to individual stores. Just moving a pallet between countries can involve an OBSCENE amount of red tape. Believe me I have some experience of that.

That would explain why availability has to wait till the end of the month, no?

mrvrod · Jan 15, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Looks like I'm days late to this whine-fest. I actually talked it over with my wife when she read the news. I was positive from the beginning that the BMP would eventually be offered for sale separately. There's a few reasons why, like people having preordered GWEN, people unwilling to spend money on char slots they don't need to get content, and of course people without credit cards. The main reason though? Why shouldn't they offer it when there's a demand for it? And of course there was going to be. Why should ANet turn down our money for a service we want and they're willing to provide? Nobody ever signed a contract with them that they wouldn't be able to release the BMP separately later. Sorry, that's just good business.

Ok mr supply and demand, I'm sure there's a lot of interest in the in-game collector's edition specials, time to sell them, just good business. Minipets! Look at the ectos collected and traded for them! I'd like a panda bear, hey Anet, time for minipet collector sets! Just good business. Destroyer weapons at 100k + 500e, forget that, it's only $9.95 in the online store! But hey, it's just good business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

You had your fun lording your stuff over the rest of us.

I feel bad that you seem to have met some lousy people in-game, I'm by no means rich in or out of game, I do have some nice items for my favorite character, and I have NEVER lorded anything over anyone. People like that are the exception, not the rule.

I just want to reiterate, I'm not mad that people are getting to enjoy what I've been able to enjoy. I am glad you will get to use these items, they are great for heros (but expensive since you need the upgrades). I do feel a little misled, but not outright lied to. I AM however still upset that they limit the rewards to once per account regardless of how many characters you play the missions through on!

Does anyone know of any other in-game mission or quest that pays out only once, and then the rest of your toons get screwed?

WinterSnowblind · Jan 15, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

Well seeing as you have already stated your area of expertise is supermarket customer care, forgive me for wanting somebody elses view on this.

I remember reading 'developer diaries' in magazines etc and I am pretty sure box art etc was something that had to be finalised months before release.

And as for shipping....you believe Anet ship directly? Oh yeah 10 for that store in Newcastle, 5 for that store in Korea etc etc. No it needs to be shipped in bulk, suppliers need to collate their orders then ship to individual stores. Just moving a pallet between countries can involve an OBSCENE amount of red tape. Believe me I have some experience of that.

The sheer logistics of a getting product in place for a worldwide release make the timescale they want us to believe unlikely.

As far as I'm aware the only stores that will be supplying the BMP physically, are the retail partners of NCsoft, such Game.co.uk

artay · Jan 15, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

28th's my birthday, what a present XD

unienaule · Jan 15, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I don't quite follow. If you bought gwen, or whatever you bought that met the requirements in time to meet the deadline, you got the bmp for free. If you now bought that same stuff and the bmp, you would be out an extra $10. How exactly is saving money a bad thing?

mrvrod · Jan 15, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

How do you know the BMP retail is going to include any of that? You dont!

It will most likely to be nothing but a CD with some cover art and nothing but a DVD case or cardboard cover, with the KEY stuck on the inside somewhere. It wont be some massive work of art with a map, manual or art work inside.

CDs and DVD covers can be run of extremely fast and very cheaply! Its called mass-production and its not hard for a large company like Anet to mass-produce thousands of copies within a few weeks.

I seriously doubt any large planning went into it.

You have obviously never worked for a large company. There is a box, there is cover art, and believe me, it had to get approval at several different levels before release. That could not be accomplished in 2 months.

WinterSnowblind · Jan 15, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

You have obviously never worked for a large company. There is a box, there is cover art, and believe me, it had to get approval at several different levels before release. That could not be accomplished in 2 months.

We're not talking about a full fledged game here, or anything like that.

Much like the Factions/Nightfall and Eye of the North pre-order bonus' it will likely just be the regular game box art but with "bonus mission pack" written on it.