Curse

Longasc · Jan 29, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Making any of the things suggested in sardelact would solve all of that.

Work like sweets.
(...)

Yea, drunkard is a bit awkward to do.
But I do not like Sweet Tooth either. Not because of botting or something else, the whole idea is questionable.

Invest XXX gold in 1000 items or collect them for a title, then click till you have swallowed them all?

The only thing that I find even dumber is the death levelling in Ascalon title, Legendary Defender of Ascalon. The title itself sounds as so much much more than that! Death Levelling as legendary achievement???

So as I said, get rid of stupid titles, and we do not even have to care about people botting them. As I said, I would rather blame ANet than people that take the easy and illegal route.

Skyy High · Jan 29, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Death leveling's only a part of that title. The Legendary part comes from killing those Charr bosses over and over again until you get to level16. It's not like you death level the entire way.

And saying that we should blame ANet for holding the carrots in front of us when people cheat to obtain said carrots is the same idiotic argument that the exploiters used to excuse the fact that they wanted to kill Mallyx repeatedly. There are difficult, time consuming goals in this game; there are also easy goals, short goals, challenging goals, gameplay-oriented goals. Pick a goal that suits your playstyle and stop complaining that there exist other goals that you don't want to work for...because that's someone else's content you're whining about.

As to the actual OP, I definitely think Gaile's said that any kind of drinking macro is illegal, but definitely not as high on their ban-list as, say, duping or exploiting. It's also probably harder to identify...but you take your risks.

Ekelon · Jan 29, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

/not-signed

but....

Pretty soon, bots will own the world. People will be botting in top lvl gvg's and HB's. I know it! Many have already accused me as a bot when I play HB. I just say yes... cuz clearly bots are smarter than them and can beat them 1v1.

~ Dan ~ · Jan 29, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Pretty soon, bots will own the world.

Ctb · Jan 29, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I side with the technicality people. Technically it's a bot, technically it's against the EULA, technically you can get banned. So, while practically you can PROBABLY get away with it, technically you can DEFINITELY be banned for it if that probability doesn't play out in your favor.

Here's my question: if you acknowledge the incontrovertible fact that the entire Drunkard title is a pathetic waste of time in the eyes of most people, apparently including yourself, why do you care if you have it?

Pleikki · Jan 29, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

it would be awesome if it could be allowed though i wouldnt need it. Got my Drunk After winterday 2006 with spiked eggs While sitting In Toa and Looking movies.

credit · Jan 29, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

People use this to leech Aspenwood, I'm not going to lie I've done it and never got a ban or warning or whatever, but have since stopped since FA/AB are pointless.

Operative 14 · Jan 29, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

....
exit into the Ice Chasms, aggro a Polar Bear, lure him over to the resurrect shrine, strip your armor and let him kill you for 1½ hours... Go to the mall, have a coffee, return home and put on the armor, charm it and Violá!!!! Your brand new Dire/Hearty/Whatever Polar Bear

Or...

Enter the Shing Jea overlook, buy tons and tons of Festival Tickets, go stand on one of those ring thingys... Go to bed and wake up a Lucky Bastard ^^

Or...

Enter Kamadan during the Vinterday Festival, stock up on Candy Cane Shards, go stand on the corresponding Grenth/Dwayna side round thingy... Go to school/work/whatever and come home to a bunch of free I-was-afk Christmas Gifts/Presents/whatever they are called...

There is a huge difference between what you are talking about there and what you are defending in your original post. AFKing while you're at a festival, or when you're death leveling a pet does not involve a third party program to automate mouse movements or key strokes. That's just how it the game is programmed. You do not use a bot program to accomplish those. In your OP's situation you are most definitely using a bot.

My question is, how long until he starts using this nifty little program to automate other things he doesn't like to do? Using it to automate drinking is harmless, I'll grant you that. But where do you draw the line between harmless and harmful? How much more harmful is it, then, for him to use it to farm for gold so he can use it to buy other drinks?

And are you seriously trying to defend your friend using a bot program to get a drunkard title in a game by comparing it to the morals of murdering someone versus killing someone to defend our families...? o.0

The Meth · Jan 29, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

As long as you aren't botting for gold farming and stuff, and not adversely impacting other players in the game, I can say with 99% confidence you aren't going to get banned. Even if they do 'catch' you, which I seriously doubt they would unless you were online for 6 days straight, there is no incentive for them to ban you.

wu is me · Jan 29, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I think the main thing to be concerned of is:

"§7... You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."

That is to say... not ALL "third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the service". Just the ones they think are harmful.

I think Gaile has already stated that the sorts of programs that automatically drink alcohol for you "(are not of great concern/ a priority)"[can't remember exactly what she said], as was the case with texmod and cartography.

Cheers!

Relnor · Jan 29, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

There are a ton of people that have done this, and there are even more still doing it now. I haven't heard of a single ban coming from this. I'd say go for it.

MarlinBackna · Jan 29, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I think that Anet's bot behavior monitor (so-called...) would not be able to pick up one double-click every minute. I mean, bots do sophisticated behaviors like talking to NPC's and moving and using skills and doing the same list of many button presses over a long time that can easily be seen by Anet. I don't think that Anet can differentiate between normal double clickage and macroed double clickage.

Esan · Jan 29, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I have used a well known "GUI automation program" to sell stacks of 250 deldrimor steel to the traders back in the days of prophecies. It was technically an automated game playing bot, but I refuse to spend an hour clicking two buttons.

Should I have been banned for it?

LifeInfusion · Jan 29, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

drunkard is lame anyway. I think Arenanet shouldn't bother banning people that MACRO (not Bot) the title. I think Gaile said herself they won't look for people that drunkard macro (I mean seriously, timed clicks isn't stellar enough to ruin the game).

It's repetitive but it is a title.

macro = just keystrokes, bot = autiomation. There's a difference. (like in excel those are macros)

P.S. if you think I say this because I macro Drunkard, I'll have you know I have 0 points in drunkard.

Molock · Jan 29, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Really it can't be as bad as the cartographer texmod usage! Still, its probably not allowed (but not monitored)

Phaern Majes · Jan 29, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Its just a matter if you're willing to take the risk or not. Anet has stated before that they don't necessarily track down and punish every account using a program. I really doubt they would ban you over it, but I'm not saying they won't ban merely that they probably have better things to do then ban people using it to consume alcohol.

Roland of Gilead · Jan 30, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Go to the official Wiki. Go to article "Bot". Go to that article's talk page. Go to section "ethical botting question" or somesuch. Read that discussion.

The essence of that discussion: A macro that plays the game for you while you could be doing something else away from the computer is considered botting and therefore explicitely forbidden by the UA. However, Gaile stated in that thread that drunkard bots are a lower priority than, say, gold farming bots. But if you used a "drunkard bot" and got banned for it, you would have no legal standing to get that ban lifted. So use at your own risk.

Snograt · Jan 30, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Or this, an official answer from Gaile re: click macros -

Quote:

We cannot condone or support the use of macros. For one thing, a lot of macros contain trojans or other malware, and we're not about to get into a situation where we're advocating the use of a program that puts bad things on a player's computer. Now, if the question is about whether we would block an account of someone using one, the answer would depend on whether the macro was being used to give advantage, to exploit the game, etc. In other words, if the use of a macro were of no detriment to the community, we would be less likely to take action than one that clearly had negative consequences. But if this is a request for us to say "That macro is harmless, please feel free to use it," I am afraid that I absolutely cannot say that. --Gaile 00:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

So there you go - er, sort of.

The Meth · Jan 30, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Or this, an official answer from Gaile re: click macros -
So there you go - er, sort of.

Exactly, Anet isn't some draconian authority that wants to track every single thing you do and punish you for it. They simply have a responsibility to every player in the game to provide the best playing experience they can, and to ensure that one player will not ruin the game of another or the community at large. If you are having more fun doing such and such, more power to you, but if it has negative effects on the game its their job to stop you.

Furthermore if you do use such macros, they can't explicitly step out and say its OK, because as some have mentioned the line between macroing and botting is very unclear, and we will end up at zwei2stein's example of an argument over what is and what isn't botting. So before you try anything, the best test to put it through is "Would doing this hurt the game or other players?"

Zonzai · Jan 30, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I'd ban you. You're lucky I don't work for ANet. Of course, you may get banned now for posting this just to set an example.