Curse

Bryant Again · Feb 01, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

Excuse me if i'm wrong but since UB was introduced and as H/h can't use it the number of people PUG'ing has increased which is what people have wanted in the idea section for ages

It's the motives behind pugging that should matter. As you stated, a person is only going in a pug because his heroes can't use UB. If heroes could use PvE skills, would he have any incentive to play with someone else?

Not to mention that the fact that people are pugging isn't always a good thing, and here's an over-the-top hypothetical example: ANet makes it so every monster in Urgoz and the Deep drops 200k every time they're killed when in an all human party. It would probably get people to play together but at a cost of cheapening the game. Ursan is done in a similar manner (but definantly not as extreme.)

Racthoh · Feb 01, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Posting pictures does not equal discussion so quit it.

MagmaRed · Feb 01, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravious

OP learn about suggestion forum, plx.

I know about the Sardelac. I also know this was not an idea I want Anet to implement. If I had thought out an idea I thought was worth proposing, I would have posted it in Sardelac. Instead, I cam up with something that has potential, but was wanting a DISCUSSION on things that could work. People can post ideas, reasons, and complaints here. Since I don't have an idea to 'fix' Ursan, this is a better forum for a discussion on it.

Tyla · Feb 01, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulterion

Stop hating/QQing and go buy EotN, acquire Ursan and go PUG!

And make the HM titles and PvE stuff even easier than it already is?
Do you understand how powerful this skill is, including the fact it does not need an ounce of skill to run - you don't even need to choose the other 7 skills on your bar ffs.
This makes bad players worse.
And the class discrimination is even worse with this.

HawkofStorms · Feb 01, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulzi

Any idiot can make a legendary survivor with hfff in a few hours.

Point 1) Reality to dream man. If you mean by "a few hours" you mean "a few hundred hours" I agree.

Point 2) What the hell does this have to do with the thread topic?

AnnaCloud9 · Feb 01, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Broke!

MagmaRed, I don't see any reasons for change to Ursan Blessing. It's a PvE skill, there is no need to worry about balance of any sort. If people don't buy GW: EN then people can't use those Nourn skills. I've noticed Ursan allows classes that usually couldn't get into a group in the first place to have a chance to join a PvE group. Now unpopular classes like Mesmer, Paragon, Assassin, Ritualist, and Dervish have better opportunities at finding PvE groups to quest in elite areas like FoW, UW, etc.

Once you take Ursan, you no longer have class, or rather a class.

Roo Ella · Feb 01, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I read it as 4th jan 08 as well
oh well teaches me not to login for a while.

Jake_Steel · Feb 01, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's the motives behind pugging that should matter. As you stated, a person is only going in a pug because his heroes can't use UB. If heroes could use PvE skills, would he have any incentive to play with someone else?

Not to mention that the fact that people are pugging isn't always a good thing, and here's an over-the-top hypothetical example: ANet makes it so every monster in Urgoz and the Deep drops 200k every time they're killed when in an all human party. It would probably get people to play together but at a cost of cheapening the game. Ursan is done in a similar manner (but definantly not as extreme.)

So now we need a morally qualified reason to be in a PUG?

It's also very haughty and arrogant to assume that people who use UB don't "understand" what they are doing.

Once again it's a matter of: People will play how they want. Get over it.

Molock · Feb 01, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Haha... I wish anet really nerfed Ursan like that!

Vazze · Feb 01, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I have never played UB, but IMO it is neither worse nor better than the "standard" tank/nuke builds that dominate high lvl areas. Nukers' bars may show some variation, but the play itself is boring like hell, at least the UB team resemble a fight somewhat ... not just a massacre of caged animals. So at this point, UB is an alternative...

Bryant Again · Feb 01, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

So now we need a morally qualified reason to be in a PUG?

It's also very haughty and arrogant to assume that people who use UB don't "understand" what they are doing.

Once again it's a matter of: People will play how they want. Get over it.

What I'm saying is this: Just because you're getting people to play together does not mean that what you're doing is good for the game. A "morally qualified reason?" Maybe. But if a person's in a pug "because he has to," then chances are he won't be very fun to play with.

I'm not saying people who use UB are inexperienced, I'm saying that UB hides it. If it wasn't so strong and simple then we wouldn't be seeing threads like this.

And once again, as I've stated previously to your other post: I don't care how people play as long as those same people know what they're dealing with.

aapo · Feb 01, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's the motives behind pugging that should matter. As you stated, a person is only going in a pug because his heroes can't use UB. If heroes could use PvE skills, would he have any incentive to play with someone else?

- No, but why does it matter? If win button existed with heroes (as it pretty much did previously), no one except newbies would even attempt to find parties. MMO where people don't like to play together is utter failure, at least ANET is doing something to remedy this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Not to mention that the fact that people are pugging isn't always a good thing, and here's an over-the-top hypothetical example: ANet makes it so every monster in Urgoz and the Deep drops 200k every time they're killed when in an all human party. It would probably get people to play together but at a cost of cheapening the game. Ursan is done in a similar manner (but definantly not as extreme.)

- And again the economy argument. Tell me what good is economy if there's no community? What good are titles if no one is impressed anymore? Why is the game team-based in the first place if you can use the exact same team setup to complete all three campaigns? The reason why loot scaling was put in place was that those 55 soloers wouldn't be hundred times richer than people who are playing the game in normal way. Again, the whole PvE side turns into one big win button you can download on wiki and the only thing that is limiting you is actually time constrains. Saying that there's skill in PvE is big fat lie.

Navaros · Feb 01, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Posting pictures does not equal discussion so quit it.

Original post is not very conducive to discussion either. Pretty much another, thinly-veiled "Nerf Ursan again because *I* want it nerfed, therefore it must be nerfed!" thread, which Guru as already had millions of. I remember once someone posted a thread called "The Ultimate team build, use with monks!" then showed an image of an empty skillbar with only Ursan on it. That thread got locked immediately. IMO this thread is no different and yet it remains unlocked.

In response to the OP: Ursan has already been nerfed, it doesn't need any more nerfing. It didn't even need it's initial nerfing. And making a spectacular PUG of 2 men and 6 Heroes is still way faster and way more effective than taking in 7 Ursans who may be newbies. Ursan is already for the most part limited to one or two players because most good players still use H/H or friends/Guildies exclusively rather than PUGing.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 01, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

FFS.

The person who said that normal builds are superior in the hands of skilled people is WRONG. With five ursans + QZ, ursan gives bonus armor, bonus health, near-complete damage reduction through perma-knockdown (with damage) and perma-weakness, free speedboost and free armor ignoring damage every two seconds. Equip a zealous weapon and make sure to target nearest & rush the whole time, and you'll never run out of energy.

There is no weakness or downside to Ursan, it is simply that much better than any other skillbar in the game.

It ruins the game because it completely throws the concept of skill out the window. There isn't any skill in Ursan, you just mash buttons.

This is also the biggest problem with Ursan: it is boring. I used Ursan while H/H vanquishing, but eventually I just... stopped. I mapped back and replaced it with Eviscerate, because it was so monstrously boring to play. A full skillbar with Eviscerate as elite isn't anywhere near as good as an empty skillbar with Ursan, but it's not as boring to play either.

The fix proposed in the first post in this thread is actually not bad. It'd remove the godmode uberness of Ursan, to the point it'd be useless for DoA farming. Sorry guys, I realize I'm talking about killing your baby here, but it's really for the best.

But it wont happen. The PvE skills are clearly the lead designers baby, else something as ridiculous as Ursan would never have made it into the game.

Oh, and Navaros: changing attack range to touch was a BOOST, not a NERF, because it increased the effectiveness of the main attack, the AoE knockdown.

Muspellsheimr · Feb 01, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

While Ursan does need to be nerfed bad, this would be a terrible way to do it.
It should simply be removed, with all the PvE skills.

And no, the April 1st thing was not the least bit funny.

CougarTheTall · Feb 01, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

It should simply be removed, with all the PvE skills.

*whooooosh..clug.clug.clug*

That's the sound of your credibility and worth of your opinion being flushed down a f*cking toilet.

Bryant Again · Feb 01, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

No, but why does it matter? If win button existed with heroes (as it pretty much did previously), no one except newbies would even attempt to find parties. MMO where people don't like to play together is utter failure, at least ANET is doing something to remedy this.

Interestingly enough I don't remember ANet labeling Guild Wars as an MMO, probably for good reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

And again the economy argument. Tell me what good is economy if there's no community? What good are titles if no one is impressed anymore? Why is the game team-based in the first place if you can use the exact same team setup to complete all three campaigns? The reason why loot scaling was put in place was that those 55 soloers wouldn't be hundred times richer than people who are playing the game in normal way.

That wasn't an economy argument. That was me giving a hypothetical example of why it's not safe to draw conclusions just based on the fact that people are playing together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Again, the whole PvE side turns into one big win button you can download on wiki and the only thing that is limiting you is actually time constrains. Saying that there's skill in PvE is big fat lie.

If it's so easy then I don't see why we need Ursan Blessing in the first place.

As a side note: At least in terms of Wiki'ing builds you have a much greater chance at learning something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougerTheFall

*whooooosh..clug.clug.clug*

That's the sound of your credibility and worth of your opinion being flushed down a f*cking toilet.

Funnily enough, he doesn't lose any respect from me personally. Other posters, though...

aapo · Feb 01, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Point 1) Reality to dream man. If you mean by "a few hours" you mean "a few hundred hours" I agree.

- No. One completion of quest takes around 1 minute. Each time you receive reward it's 2,000 experience. Then add in zoning time and let's say we get conservative estimate 1:30 minutes per quest. Legendary Survivor is 1,337,500 experience. 1,337,500 / 2,000 * 1,5 = 16 hours 43 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Point 2) What the hell does this have to do with the thread topic?

- That the game is broken even without UB?

Jake_Steel · Feb 01, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Original post is not very conducive to discussion either.

BINGO! Double BINGO!

Numa Pompilius · Feb 01, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

It should simply be removed, with all the PvE skills.

Speaking as a PvE-only player (OK a little RA from time to time) I whole-heartedly agree. Frankly I find the PvE skills insulting. Remove the Fing things.