Curse

Oukanna · Feb 05, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

I notice some proffesions are unwanted in certain areas, but then needed in others. So i dont think sonme proffesions are completely useless these days.
Each have there own ability that brings something to the group, if organised well enough and player ability is good.

Every proffesion has a chance to get the statue in DOA etc, but some proffesions will take more effort than others...thats just the way it is. Your best bet is to get a guildie group going, then you can practise and adjust so it works. or if not guildie, friends. These are the people who are supposed to help you and have more patience with this kind of thing than a PUG (they want to get the best teams in quick and fast, well mostly).

To me guildie or friend group seems to be the best answer for now, if you really want to get the statue etc. If it is just to farm then it would be quicker to re-roll and get something PuGS desire.

Uber Mass · Feb 05, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Some people dont know that mesmers make very good Ele's or an SS even or that a Sin can be a decent barrager.. and so on and so on...

Most pugs are very narrowminded one of the reasons i hardly pug

Numa Pompilius · Feb 05, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oukanna

I notice some proffesions are unwanted in certain areas, but then needed in others. So i dont think sonme proffesions are completely useless these days.

Only because...
1) Not everyone has EotN and access to Ursan.
2) Not everyone has yet realized how much better ursanway is than all other conceivable teambuilds in all areas of the game.

Etta · Feb 05, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

We all luv Ursan.

Crom The Pale · Feb 05, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Every proffesion has its uses, some people are better at finding those uses and running certain builds than others.

I cringe when ever I see a necro or mesmer running Ursan Blessing as they have builds that are far more effective and usefull.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 05, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I cringe when ever I see a necro or mesmer running Ursan Blessing as they have builds that are far more effective and usefull.

What build would that be?

I'd be very interested in knowing what build I should give my mesmer so she can do armor-ignoring 150 damage every three seconds without caring about energy, and require less healing due to more armor and give her extra health and not having to care about hexes and giving the entire team perhaps 95% damage reduction through knockdown and doing another 135 damage and keeping the enemy weakened.

My necro can do more raw DPS as a minionmaster, but from a team PoV he too is more useful as an ursan. Everyone is more useful for the team as an ursan. Except monks, because the one thing Ursan lacks is self heal.

Tyla · Feb 05, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Who gives a S**T? Screw em. Let em stay bad if it makes them happy. It really isn't your business.

You forgot they'll probably have an overinflated ego about thinking they're good playing anything after they finish winning pve in less than a month.

Quote:

forgot to say.... the unskilled doorknobs who think warriors and mending are a good combo bought GW just like those with the capacity to learn. they should be entitled to enjoy their money too.

Yeah - Warriors had the option to go obby tank, no?

GloryFox · Feb 05, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh
the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck...

In all my years of playing GW I have never seen anything more powerful in PvE than a CoP spike from a group of Mesmers. over 1200 damage in under 2 seconds to all foes in the Area is never a bad thing.

Ignorance must be truly bliss for some people.

I'm not saying Mesmers can clear every area in the game but they can clear quite a bit on their own.

Tell me has there been any other pure profession groups that has cleared the DoA 4 main areas? I might be mistaken but I can only think of one.

The Mesmer...

I'd challenge any other pure primary profession group to claim that right.

Esan · Feb 05, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Everyone is more useful for the team as an ursan.

Not always. Ursan's awesome killing power stumbles completely when faced with exploding enemies, such as the undead in Shards of Orr. A mesmer is most useful there as a signet smiter, and necros for AoE debuffs.

Guardian Of Legend · Feb 05, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Doesn’t ursan work best for warriors due to higher armor rating?

Bryant Again · Feb 05, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Of Legend

Doesn’t ursan work best for warriors due to higher armor rating?

We can also get over a thousand health with it.

Guardian Of Legend · Feb 05, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

We can also get over a thousand health with it.

That’s cool man, thx. Also thx for not flaming me. :P

Cab Tastic · Feb 05, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Originally Posted by Razz Thom
Who gives a S**T? Screw em. Let em stay bad if it makes them happy. It really isn't your business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

You forgot they'll probably have an overinflated ego about thinking they're good playing anything after they finish winning pve in less than a month.

And this is bad because??

Originally Posted by Razz Thom
forgot to say.... the unskilled doorknobs who think warriors and mending are a good combo bought GW just like those with the capacity to learn. they should be entitled to enjoy their money too.

Agree. very good point.

roshanabey2 · Feb 05, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

increase energy to 25 and recharge to 2mins.
That might help.
But in my ideal world, UB should of never happened.

Note- UB is borring.
The only reson you would play/farm using it is because your either addicted to GW,trying to prove that your a good player ( not a 'noob'), a bot or an obsessive farmer.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 05, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Of Legend

Doesn’t ursan work best for warriors due to higher armor rating?

Yes and no. It does really work best for warriors, partly because of the armor, partly because of Stonefist insignia, but if you've got sufficient ursans in the team the enemy wont be able to do much damage to you due to constant AoE knockdowns, so the lower armor isn't as vital as one might think. Also, while +20 armor and +200 health may not sound too impressive, it does give reasonable tankability (and you'll get some more armor still from the shield).

EDIT: That warriors can get >1000 health with ursan by using Signet of Stamina is true, but not very significant - while the effect doesn't end as long as you only use the ursan attacks, it DOES end if you use your weapon, and without using your zealous weapon you'll have difficulty keeping ursan up indefinitely.

Shuuda · Feb 05, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers, because PvE is SOOOOOooo easy, you don't need that kind of long term, and skillful shutdown, in other words, Mesmer don't suck in PvE, PvE sucks to Mesmers.

Fixed it for you, much closer to the truth now.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 05, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

In terms of actual effectiveness:

Paragon > Rit > Warrior > other physicals > other casters > Mesmer

I'd have to say that warriors are at the bottom of the other melee professions, my version, for a basic team setup and builds, is:
Assassin > Paragon > Mesmer > Necromancer > Ritualist > Monk > Dervish > Elementalist > Ranger > Warrior
Of course thats in a basic idea, the order changes depending on what you are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

I'd imagine rits and assassins also have that problem now.

This, sadly, is mostly true, even though Rits and Sins are very good professions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

Concerning Ursan, I have never used it and never will... I want it to be removed completely (or nerfed so badly that it is worthless

)

I feel the same, I am waiting for Ursan to be nurfed, its annoying me that I MUST run Ursan to get a DoA group with my sin now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

holy cow..............
i thought i'd never see it...........

another ursanQQway thread.......

the only people who truly want this skill nerfed or removed are leetist jerks who want DOA UW and FOW back to themselves and they will say anything to get it back that way. If you aren't discriminated against over Ursan, you will be over not being one of the holy trinity or not being experienced enough anyway. Plz god let it alone and plz let these QQ threads stop already.

A-Net plz give the leetists back their crutch so whilr they are in their basements wishing for a life, they can at least FEEL Uber for a little while.

I want the skill nurfe and I am not a "leetist" nor anything near, sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

On the subject of profession equality, here's what I currently see as the PUG balance of desirable classes...

Monk - This one's obvious, it is the most sought out class in most groups.
Elementalist - Nukers are sought out as well and most PuGs think that Elementalist is the only nuker.
Warrior - Most PuGs think that the average PvE area actually needs a tank. IMO only the toughest of elite missions need a tank, and even then an Elementalist works just as well or better.
Necromancer - Minion Master.
Ranger - Interrupts.
Dervish - Seen as similar to Warrior by most PuGs.
Ritualist - Can sometimes get in as a healer.
Assassin - Seems to be only taken when there is a deficit of warriors and dervishes.
Mesmer - Taken when no rangers are in sight and a mission needs an interrupter, even then not always taken.
Paragon - Nobody seems to want them because most PuGs don't have the faintest idea how the class works.

Just some random stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

Heh, sad thing about this statement....its true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

You don't need anything except "Save Yourselves"; a paragon is a waste of time. "There's Nothing to Fear!" is not worth bringing when you already have "Save Yourselves!", which can be done on any W secondary (bonder).

Paragons do much less damage than other classes. Much, much, much less damage.

Yes, you are captain scrub.

Lol, I know many paragon's who could rip your statement apart, as I noticed while reading on, some did. Although my main is not a Paragon, what I could say is that Paragons are ment for FAST PARTY SUPPORT, not damage, so yes they do less damage, but still can give damage. Also, there is more to using "There's Nothing to Fear!" and "Save ourselves!" but the reason why paragons use those two skills is because 1)"Save Yourselves!" is adrenaline, so gives energy to themselves, something that doesn't work for monks. 2) "There's Nothing to Fear!" gives damage reduction and heals the party. 3) The combination of both gives a LOT of armor+dmg reduction, something that is not easy for monks to do, although can be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

It is, though. If you actually need a bonder, chances are your party sucks.

In the history of GW, physicals have been the pinnacle of damage dealers. The Paragon is a physical damage class as well as a class that buffs other physicals. What's not to like?

If anything, than Assassin and Mesmer would probably be worst.

First two parts, I agree. However, with claiming that Assassins and Mesmers are the worst, I strongly disagree. Assassins can outdo Wars and Dervs easily, just as Mesmers can shutdown nearly any profession, depending on e build used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

Thank you! Although I do not play mesmer, I will always say that mesmers are great professions and are WAY underlooked, just like assassins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The main problem is Mesmers require actual intelligence to be on the receiving end for them to be the most effective...

Yup, thats why people hate mesmers, they can't play them well, I admit, I can't either, but with the intelligence thing, same goes for Assassins. Funny how the two professions I find to be the best are also the most hated and least wanted, also that they need some intelligence to play as.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Everytime I hear someone call a "Warrior" a "Tank" I jump one step closer to incinerating him to death.
I even got called "Dumbass" for saying: "It's WARRIOR not TANK".

Lol, I know how you feel, although I have yet to be called a "Dumbass" for that reason. Tanks are simply someone that can take lots of aggro and live, in essence, all solo builds are "tank" builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

yep i'm saying you have a crutch, why? because even now you are seething that your "so called" balanced build for xxxxxx(insert elite area here) isn't being forced on others anymore. therefore you feel less Uber than you are used to. Now other proffesions than the holy 3 are being used in your area and you can't keep the "n00bs" out so they are getting ectos and armbraces too. and that makes your tiny little E-peen shrivel more, so you can't have that now can you. as for you calling me fail, i have never been in an ursanway group even though i have the skill and rank 8 norn. but if it is helping other people get the most enjoyment out of THEIR game that THEY bought also then let it go already. be less of a leetist failure yourself and freaking drop it already. if i do decide to go into an ursanway group it will be a huge blessing knowing way down inside that jerks like you won't be there.

People only want to get this skill nurfed because the of 4 reasons. 1) Those without EN can't get in groups as easily. 2)Those that don't care about maxing norn title now have to in order to get a group easily. 3) Profession builds are now useless. 4) Those that don't want to do ursanway, and cannot solo yet, such as myself, who are also NOT "leetist" can then get into groups without having to change our build into something we don't want to run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

...Ursan is working out for those who bought GWEN and like using it, for those without it the options didn't get worse they just didn't get better.

But it DID get worse, why? Because people are hardly wanting non-ursans now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

Leetist Ursan or Leetist balance are both still spammed in these areas, it just seems as though the "newer" leetist is more prolific for the time being.

Although I cannot, and will not, say that I never see the "balanced" teams wanting people, I can very easily say that the Ursanway teams are much much more common and it is starting to get a non-guild started balance team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

then you haven't looked. i see "NO URSAN" in every elite area now. I was in DOA last night and there were at least 3 groups looking for non-ursans. as i said ursan is newer thus more used ATM but the other jerks are still there as well. but the point is that no obviously not every class is =.

Ok, you gotta tell me who is looking for non-ursan groups, that is completely pug, I don't have a guild so I can't start a group in a guild, and because I'm not in someone's guild, those who start guild groups rarly want non-guildies to join, mainly because of how much people hate pugs.

Now for your overall arguement, Razz Thom, yes Ursan has helped many "noobs" and non-"leetists" be able to farm the elite areas, but now Ursan is wanted TO MUCH, which is my problem, and why I want Ursan to be nurfed to a point where it is still good but not "better" then balanced.

As for my idea for what to do with ursan, I say either nurf it so that its not as good, but doesn't suck, or buff some skills, or add skills, so that there is more variety to how to do Elite areas for "noobs"

roshanabey2 · Feb 05, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

well said azazel

The Way Out · Feb 05, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

In all my years of playing GW I have never seen anything more powerful in PvE than a CoP spike from a group of Mesmers. over 1200 damage in under 2 seconds to all foes in the Area is never a bad thing.

Ignorance must be truly bliss for some people.

I'm not saying Mesmers can clear every area in the game but they can clear quite a bit on their own.

Tell me has there been any other pure profession groups that has cleared the DoA 4 main areas? I might be mistaken but I can only think of one.

The Mesmer...

I'd challenge any other pure primary profession group to claim that right.

/agree

Eight Team Mesmer or Paragon teams pwn Ursans everytime... fact!

Ursan Blessing is a must now for many PUGs... and it is sad. I miss the days of old, where profession and build made a lot of sense.

Having said that, the wait time to get into groups now to do DoA or UW is next to nothing, and Ursans really simplify the PUG... six Ursans (showing their ranks) and two HB Monks equals about an hour less waiting time to leave a town.

How many people here even remember waiting for a PUG to form?

How many people here have wasted hours waiting for an Urgoz team to form with specialized builds?

Bryant Again · Feb 05, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

EDIT: That warriors can get >1000 health with ursan by using Signet of Stamina is true, but not very significant - while the effect doesn't end as long as you only use the ursan attacks, it DOES end if you use your weapon, and without using your zealous weapon you'll have difficulty keeping ursan up indefinitely.

I think the time that it takes for it to wear out was pretty long, I think it nearly reached a minute. So if the mob isn't dead by then, then wow that group must have some problems.

And even if a skill didn't work too well then you are totally fine, since Ursan can be entirely effective by itself. There are no wasted skill slots.

And Azazel: Not sure about what you mean in terms of a warrior's effectiveness. Dragon Slash warriors have the best overall and functioning DPS. In terms of utility, you mean?