Curse

dread pirate fargus · Feb 21, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

before i even start typing this i know people will want to ask "what is the point of this thread?" or if im lucky they will simply tell me to QQ moar.

the thing that has really deterred me from being an active member of the guru community is that it is full of elitist pricks, no names mentioned please. the kind of people are the ones who say that no titles take effort. all titles can be ebayed or cheated and thus the one you get is worthless. the ones the constantly moan about xx being unbalanced, and how anet phail because skill > time seems to apply less than it did before.

i just want to say, i think anet rock, they are doing an amazing job, especially when you consider the limitations given by the business model they use. THANKYOU

i just wish the community would stop bashing them just because anet realise that the few QQers on this forum are NOT representative of the parent population (by that i mean only a very small minority of players post on this forum)

the other moans i hear far to often are people complaining about how the game is grind related?

let me just point out a few things.
~~to complete the game and the storyline, you never ever have to grind.

~~to get titles, you grind. the titles are in no way required to finish the game.

to get certain armours, you grind. the high end armours are in no way required to finish the game. you dont HAVE to grind rank 5 norn to get that armour, there is max armour available for less than 10k per full set. it IS possible to get 10k by playing through the game.

to get shiny weapons, you grind. these are in no way needed to finish the game, you can buy cheap greens for any profession for 1k each... chors axe, malinons shield, flints fleshcleaver, murukais maul, etc etc etc.

never ever in the game are you FORCED to grind. they are all OPTIONAL activities, for those of us who actually WANT grind. yes there are some of us. we want the ability to in some way show that we have been playing the game a long time and played it to its fullest potential, yet those ways have no benefit apart from looking pretty.

some people have tried to convince me that they NEED to grind to max titles because they want to take them to the HoM for unlocks in GW2.

notice the WANT in there. the unlocks for GW2 will not be ones which offer some obscene benefit. wether or not its been confirmed, i am 110% sure that any benefits given will be vanity items. something pretty to show off. i know this because i have common sense and it is obvious by how anet works.

people moan about things like the party title, drunkard, sweet tooth, etc, because its a title you buy. but surely to buy the titles you need the money in the first place, you need to earn it through trading, farming, etc. and just because it POSSIBLE to ebay gold doesnt mean everyone does it. if someone does, whoop de doo they ruin the game for themselves... but they dont ruin my game. i still have my achievements. also most people dont ebay.

to put things bluntly, there is a group of people in the community who constantly put-down everything someone achieves, says, or does. I am very proud not to be one of those people. if you got protector of tyria, congratulations. if you maxed drunkard.... il drink to that. if you IWAYed your way to a bambi, nice job everyone has to start somewhere. if you have LDoA title, nice job i know first hand how much dedication it needs. if you moan because you think ursan is too powerful..... sorry i dont sympathise with the fact that you dont want newer players to access the areas you can.

peace and love guys.
cheer up moar

<3<3<3 James <3<3<3

_____-
ps i just saw 'makosi' has this awesome avatar.

and i think it applies here.

allthough i desperately dont want this to turn into another ursan thread. the point still remains that i think anet are doing a great job.

Kattar · Feb 21, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

If you know people are going to think your post is flamebait, then why take the time to post?

So, basically this is just a collection of the arguments you have with people on the forums?

Hmm....don't know if this can be considered a legitimate thread. Granted, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I do think this is gonna get out of hand pretty quick.

Plus, rambling thoughts are usually locked/deleted pretty quick.

Alicendre · Feb 21, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

let me just point out a few things.
~~to complete the game and the storyline, you never ever have to grind.

Wrong.
You have to get 10K faction points to finish Factions.

we want the ability to in some way show that we have been playing the game a long time and played it to its fullest potential, yet those ways have no benefit apart from looking pretty.

PvE skills don't make you look pretty, but they give you a significient advantage.
Try to PuG DoA as a Mesmer without UB...

dread pirate fargus · Feb 21, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

PvE skills don't make you look pretty, but they give you a significient advantage.
Try to PuG DoA as a Mesmer without UB...

10k faction can be accumulated in under an hour. i dont call that grind. there are quests which give upwards of 750 faction and take 10 minutes. 10k faction in AB is easy, even if you lose matches.

you dont need to pug DoA as a mesmer.

you can complete the game without pve skills. i have done it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

If you know people are going to think your post is flamebait, then why take the time to post?

So, basically this is just a collection of the arguments you have with people on the forums?

Hmm....don't know if this can be considered a legitimate thread. Granted, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I do think this is gonna get out of hand pretty quick.

Plus, rambling thoughts are usually locked/deleted pretty quick.

you are looking at this wrong. the point of this thread is to say that i am not one of the people who does the above mentioned QQing, and to see if there are indeed other people who think the same.

and to maybe make a place on this forum pointing out that no, we dont all think anet phail.

*edit* sorry for the double post, kinda didnt realise i was doing it, dont know how to merge them but a mod can feel free to merge them?

Isileth · Feb 21, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I have no problem with the initial grind that GW had. Such as elite armor and rare weapons. As they are completely optional and add no level of advantage to the game.

I have a problem with grind that rewards you with an advantage. PvE skills and titles. If you dont grind them you end up weaker than someone who does.

I will also add the optional grind titles im also not a fan of. I would much rather see achievements be skill based than grind based, but as long as they offer no advantage I dont have a problem with them being there.

Kattar · Feb 21, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

you are looking at this wrong. the point of this thread is to say that i am not one of the people who does the above mentioned QQing, and to see if there are indeed other people who think the same.

and to maybe make a place on this forum pointing out that no, we dont all think anet phail.

*edit* sorry for the double post, kinda didnt realise i was doing it, dont know how to merge them but a mod can feel free to merge them?

Oh ok, I see where you're coming from then.

I seem to remember a "GJ Anet" thread last week that got closed though. That's what I meant.

aapo · Feb 21, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

the thing that has really deterred me from being an active member of the guru community is that it is full of elitist pricks, no names mentioned please. the kind of people are the ones who say that no titles take effort. all titles can be ebayed or cheated and thus the one you get is worthless.

- Eh? Isn't disagreeing with the importance of titles rather anti-elitist and elitism would be to disregard those who don't have desired features (e.g. titles)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

the ones the constantly moan about xx being unbalanced, and how anet phail because skill > time seems to apply less than it did before.

i just want to say, i think anet rock, they are doing an amazing job, especially when you consider the limitations given by the business model they use. THANKYOU

- So you're nothing but opposite side of the coin? This black&white no-reasons-asked kind of thinking is what truly wrecks the atmosphere for intelligent discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

i just wish the community would stop bashing them just because anet realise that the few QQers on this forum are NOT representative of the parent population (by that i mean only a very small minority of players post on this forum)

- Should we all just start chanting "Gaile is the greatest person" so that she would be here cheering with us with the flower emote? If there's problem with the software or poor design decisions made it's imperative that people should voice their opinion about them. What if there was no extra storage, no observer mode, no skillbalances? Those kinds of things players wanted? It would be the crappiest game on the market.

Most of the other things you said, however, sound reasonable.

lakatz · Feb 21, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

10k faction can be accumulated in under an hour. i dont call that grind. there are quests which give upwards of 750 faction and take 10 minutes. 10k faction in AB is easy, even if you lose matches.

you dont need to pug DoA as a mesmer.

you can complete the game without pve skills. i have done it.

True true true. You can earn all 10k in quests designed to do just that. Quests =/= grind.

But I have to say this about this forum. It takes all kinds. And you're going to encounter all kinds in the real world as well... for the rest of your life. I've found that accepting people as they are rather than wanting them to fit into my own prescribed mold is the best way for me to stay sane and happy.

Alicendre · Feb 21, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dread pirate fargus

10k faction can be accumulated in under an hour. i dont call that grind. there are quests which give upwards of 750 faction and take 10 minutes. 10k faction in AB is easy, even if you lose matches.

Maybe it's not MMO's kind of grind, but it still is grind.
I hate AB, too much "zomg newb suxons!!1" or "u mobbing kurdicks!!!!". I also hate FFF (which IS farming).

you dont need to pug DoA as a mesmer.

you can complete the game without pve skills. i have done it.

Of course you can.
You can also complete the game in NM with starter armor, weapons and presearing skills.

But it would be stupid to consider that it will be as easy as if you buy max armor and weapons, and have a working build.

BTW I'm all for optional grinding if people like it. It just should not give players who do it advantages, or people would rather go play WoW, which is actually designed for grind. One should only look at how bad GW status is now, while WoW is still running...

CougarTheTall · Feb 21, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

The point is, that there is no point. I agree with the OP 100%. I have recently quit Guild Wars because I have accomplished everything that I wanted to accomplish and have done all of the things I have considered fun to the point where they were no longer fun. However, the main reason I just did not start a new character is because I hate all of the elitest assholes that plague this game and the community sites. The only reason I even bother coming back to these forums and others like it, is to see if any new content, patches, fixes or tweaks have been released that would rekindle my interest and to remind myself of the community and how bad it is and why I refuse to subject myself to it any longer.

I've thought long and hard about these things and I find them to be for the most part, not arguable.

-THERE IS NO GRIND
You can complete all missions, story lines, elite missions, acquire maxed armor and maxed weapons merely by playing through the game and the quests. Anything needed beyond that is only used for vanity purposes and gives no added benefit. If you want these skins bad enough to grind, you cannot complain. Period. Faction can be acquired through doing the quests, SS and LB points are the same way and none of these have to be maxed in order to complete something.

-IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, DON'T PLAY/BUY/USE IT
If you have a problem with 15k armor.....DON'T BUY IT, STUPID! If you have a problem with Ursan.....DON'T USE IT AND DON'T JOIN PARTIES THAT USE IT, STUPID! If you have problems with the fact that everyone uses this or that skin for whatever.....DON'T USE IT, LOOK AT IT OR BUY IT, STUPID! All of these things are VANITY based products, you don't need them, so shut up about it. Ursan is just a lazy mans tool to get through hard areas. They don't tell you how to run your builds, don't tell them how to run theirs, STUPID!

-YOUR BUILD SUCKS AND MINE IS BETTER BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING
No, you don't. There is always someone smarter than you. Unless you've never died, you are no better than the next guy, so shut up and let others play as they wish.

You people play a game with no subscription fee. Think about that. I find it kind of amusing that this community is probably one of the more volatile in the MMO universe and it's one of the only non-subscribable MMO's. Not to mention in all senses it really is kind of a baby or starter MMO. Not to complicated, not to big, but not to easy as to become dull. It's the perfect MMO to start out on and move into bigger ones. Yet the people of this community are the most elitest, rude, obnoxious and over absorbed people I have ever met, in any community from any game. Sad.

Also, take this QQ fad and stuff it up your asses.

Isileth · Feb 21, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Why can people not dislike part of a game and discuss ways for it to be improved without them being labled or told to stop with the QQ?

Im not against Ursan or grind because I think only top players should be able to do stuff, im not against it because I want to be the only one with max titles etc.

Im against it because in my opinion it has a negative effect on the game.

Why can people not state an opinion and discuss it?
You are fully welcome to disagree, but just telling people to shut up and to stop with the QQ etc doesnt get anyone anywhere.

RedNova88 · Feb 21, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Why can people not like part of a game and discuss ways for it to be improved without them being labled or told to stop with the QQ?

I'm all for discussion and improvement but the problem is the way it's "discussed" whenever I see a thread TRYING to suggest an improvement it gets beaten to death by people that don't understand the meaning of a civilized discussion. So instead of people weighing the good AND the bad of the supposed improvement they just weigh the bad. So it just ends up turning into a flame war until a mod closes it or takes the time to delete all the crap posts.

CougarTheTall · Feb 21, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Why can people not dislike part of a game and discuss ways for it to be improved without them being labled or told to stop with the QQ?

Im not against Ursan or grind because I think only top players should be able to do stuff, im not against it because I want to be the only one with max titles etc.

Im against it because in my opinion it has a negative effect on the game.

Why can people not state an opinion and discuss it?
You are fully welcome to disagree, but just telling people to shut up and to stop with the QQ etc doesnt get anyone anywhere.

Find me one thread on this forum where someone suggested something or tried to discuss something that they didn't like, found annoying or thought was over/underpowered, that wasn't thrown into a furnace of "noob, qq, you suck, horrible, dumbass, etc etc" comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Oh yeah thanks I'm so stupid.

Yeah right. Now I'm gonna run with only frenzy and heal sig on my necro in undies and 2-3 wand, which will of course have a sup rune of death magic while running an tactics/blood "build" because I want to.

Thanks for showing me the light.

OHH YES, because no one can make their own mistakes and learn from them! We must all listen to the all knowing PvX wiki Gods and their all knowing build database, because anything else is sub-par and subject to routine ridicule.

And people wonder why the meta-game has gone stale.....

Jetdoc · Feb 21, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Honestly, to post on (or read) ANY forum, you simply have to develop a thick(er) skin.

For every observation or suggestion someone makes, it's the natural tendency for someone to post their thoughts on it if they disagree with your position, rather than if they concur.

Because of that, forums such as this are often viewed as "being negative" or as a place where you "might be attacked".

That couldn't be further from the truth - I think most of us have the desire to make GW continue to be a pleasurable experience. Yet, much like the local news, negative responses tend to get people's attention more than positive responses. Combine that with the phenonmenon I described above, and I can see how someone could come to that conclusion, however.

The one thing I truly abhor, however, are the QQ posts you refer to above. Seriously, if you don't have anything to add to a thread other than "QQ", you might as well not post...it adds absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand (or the overall quality of the forum). I would personally rather see a "/not signed" than a "QQ" or "lolcat" or whatever inane one word quip people like to add simply to make themselves feel better and/or popular...at least a /signed or /notsigned indicates a general agreement or disagreement with the topic.

Alicendre · Feb 21, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

OHH YES, because no one can make their own mistakes and learn from them! We must all listen to the all knowing PvX wiki Gods and their all knowing build database, because anything else is sub-par and subject to routine ridicule.

And people wonder why the meta-game has gone stale.....

I don't use cookie-cutter builds.
In fact, I run my Ele with a dual attunes air build, and previously with a water build, because I like big yellow numbers. I just discovered they were on PvX today, because my bf gave me the link. She has SF unlocked, but I just hate playing it, and if anyone kicks me for not playing it, screw them.
I also have a blood build on my Necro, and I have a PvE Mesmer. Usually, I take an elite I like and complete it with normal skills. The only moment I look at PvX is when I'm noob at a profession and don't want to screw up with it.

But using PvE skills DO give an advantage.

I don't think they are bad, PvE should be separated from PvP ; but I never understood why they weren't linked to attributes.
The way they are implanted makes them not a choice to use or not, but a choice to change your way of playing or get screwed.

Shuuda · Feb 21, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

OHH YES, because no one can make their own mistakes and learn from them! We must all listen to the all knowing PvX wiki Gods and their all knowing build database, because anything else is sub-par and subject to routine ridicule.

And people wonder why the meta-game has gone stale.....

1. The Meta game is stale due to some balancing issues.
2. Wouldn't be much better, if instead of running a clearly bad build and doing an ineffective job, I were to advise them, even if it was vague and general play tips?
3. Thinking PvX is good, is for noobs, seriously.

Being nice is all well and nice, and I too get sick of major QQs, but I dislike carebears just as much, reality is harsh, even if it's in a game.

MikeV · Feb 21, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I think people need to concentrate more on running the absolute best builds told to them by the absolute best players in the game rather than concentrating on having fun. If not, we should ridicule them until they leave.

BTW, I agree 100% with the original poster.

Shuuda · Feb 21, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeV

I think people need to concentrate more on running the absolute best builds told to them by the absolute best players in the game rather than concentrating on having fun. If not, we should ridicule them until they leave.

Aww c'mon, your totally exaggerating the attitude of the actually good players in the game (and by good, I mean all the high end GvGers that don't run gimmicks). Are they really that bad for trying to help others, just because they are not carebears who forgive mending wammos for using riposte, does that mean they are bad?

/tsk.

You can't see me · Feb 21, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

There are not nearly enough grind based rewards to cry about grinding, IMO. The grind isn't even that bad compared to other games. Seriously, PvE skills and their titles are not grind. You get rank four at least if you play through the GW:EN campaign and do some dungeons on the side. At rank four, most skills function in a way that is worth your cause. Not to mention in Nightfall, the sunspear skills are supurb, and you get rank six sunspear by completing the campaign, maybe one point farming run on the side.

Now, Islelith, I'm going to take advantage of your open invite to disagree. PvE grind titles don't take enough grind to gain the advantage provided that it's anything to complain about, IMHO.

DDL · Feb 21, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Don't forget that the whole point of PvE skills is that...you can only use them on monsters. Thus, saying 'you're weaker' is a far less relevant. Sure, in a one-on-one "you kill these monsters, they kill those" situation, someone with a maxed PvE title-linked skill might do marginally better, but the whole POINT of PvE is that you work together toward a common goal. Competitive strength comparisons are beyond stupid when there is NO COMPETITION. And if your party dumps you because one particular skill you had was both PvE and "insufficiently titled" in comparison to someone else...then they're a party of tards, and you're better off without them.

Seriously: the JOY of GW is that you really, really DON'T need to grind for anything, ever. Max armour is easily crafted, max weapons likewise. Almost always, you will have the necessary materials (or funds) by the time you can craft those things, just by playing normally. Camping a dungeon for four weeks to get an essential shoulderpad (or similar) is NEVER going to happen. Sure, you might have to farm destroyer cores to get a special set of gloves, but you will never NEED to: that set of gloves will be utterly optional, and utterly superfluous.

So, yeah: OP, /signed. Definitely.