Curse

garethporlest18 · Feb 28, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Who's "we"?
I've been playing since the week after release of Prophecies, and I've never been banned. None of my friends have ever been banned. And I frequently give away stuff and gold. I do not, however, cheat, shout crap in the ALL channel, or buy gold.

No no you misread me. I said we all bend over and submit to them because they are our gods in this game world. We follow the rules and that means bending over and submitting.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 28, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

No no you misread me. I said we all bend over and submit to them because they are our gods in this game world.

Yes, that's true - which makes bitching & moaning in GWGuru even more pointless.
No-one's ever been unbanned because of a complaint at GWGuru. CF the shitstorm following the banning of the 117 exploiters.

@mummified one: No, threads like this shows that the OP didn't like being banned, and that people are willing to believe that he was innocent and NCSoft support wrong, even though there is no evidence.

Ouchie · Feb 28, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Fact of the matter is that the only ones who know the truth are:
1) the guy (not his friends, mother, or dog)
2) NCSoft support.

Not only that, but the only ones who can do anything about it are:
1) the guy (not his friends, mother, or dog)
2) NCSoft support.

That's why threads like these get closed.

My dog knows everything

but she's not talking

I have to say I have worried about guild gifting for a while or even family gifting as I tend to buy mini's for b-day gifts and such. we've never given away 100K though and after reading this I doubt we ever would

I have no opinion as to innocence of the guy complaining since I have no proof either way

garethporlest18 · Feb 28, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Yes, that's true - which makes bitching & moaning in GWGuru even more pointless.
No-one's ever been unbanned because of a complaint at GWGuru. CF the shitstorm following the banning of the 117 exploiters.

Yeah and like I said the reason they come here to complain is to try and sully Anets name or they actually think Gaile will come read and care. When all she'll do is come in and say CONTACT SUPPORT.

thor hammerbane · Feb 28, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

This is..just laughable. I too give away free items to friends. Just yesterday, I gave a friend of mine all my loot that dropped in a fow run. Is anet gonna look and ban me for giving a few shards for nothing? This seriously needs to get fixed..

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

NC support team told in an e-mail that, they don't have a very good method to distinguish between gold buyer & transfer between accounts.

Proof of that?

I very seriously doubt it, no serious company (and NC Soft is one of them) would write such an email!

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

The more I read these threads (with some new nicknames that look very aggressive and anti-Anet), the more I think of the 117s ...

It's a conspiracy theory in essence, but I've seen it already when I moderated a big forum: Anet banned my account and I'm pissed off, so I'm going to ruin their reputation on their forums with stories of unfair bans, doomed economy, broken PvP and grindfest PvE ...

Or I'm just very tired

GloryFox · Feb 28, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Given the circumstances of recent ANET is less likely to un-ban anyone. ANet has already made their money of GW 1 and prejudice carries over.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 28, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Proof of that?

I very seriously doubt it, no serious company (and NC Soft is one of them) would write such an email!

Exactly, this thread is just full of lies. Those lies are just reinforced when the "innocent" jump in with: Anet insults; insults to those who could possibly not believe what they've said; and hurl "retard" at said people.

I think i might go make a thread stating i'm a rank 12 champ. Only, no-one ask for screenshots please - honestly, i'm telling the truth!

Mork from Ork · Feb 28, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Given the circumstances of recent ANET is less likely to un-ban anyone. ANet has already made their money of GW 1 and prejudice carries over.

Too true

Whether this poster is legit or not, as i can tell from those who have been confirmed banned/unbanned ANet stopped having real people make the ban decisions long ago - it seems like it is just automated now with real people looking at the situation (maybe - if you are lucky) only when a banned player files a support ticket.

This lack of real human involvement is one major reason why, although I still play GW a small amount of time, I will not be continuing to GW2.

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

Where is the proof that he's guilty. If you can't proof his guilt, I guess he should stay innocent?

This is called the presumption of innocence, m8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A mummified one

In a civilized world there must be a proof someone is guilty to judge him. Judging someone as guilty because he didn't show a proof of innocence... well, we saw that in III Reich already. And I really don't want to see it again. Go and learn how to use your brain.

The Internet is surely not "civilised" and definitely not ruled by the real-life laws of "presumption of innocence". It takes 2 minutes to create an email address and forum account, it requires very little knowledge to hide your IP and it's possible, though technically more difficult, to fake information and hide traces of your actions.

On the Internet, there's a good reason why people are more cautious, to the point where you "presumed guilty until innocent". There are so many scams, around 75% of email communication is spam. Not to mention that we're at the moment posting messages on a server hosted probably in the USA and so we're under their laws, even if we're in not in the USA.

And one Godwin point for this thread! Don't feed the troll guys ...

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mork from Ork

it seems like it is just automated now with real people looking at the situation (maybe - if you are lucky) only when a banned player files a support ticket.

This lack of real human involvement is one major reason why, although I still play GW a small amount of time, I will not be continuing to GW2.

This is a lie if you trust what Gaile said on this forum, she said that no banning action is automatic and it is always verified by a person (check the message where she said it on the Game & Dev Tracker).

Numa Pompilius · Feb 28, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Proof of that?

I very seriously doubt it, no serious company (and NC Soft is one of them) would write such an email!

Wouldn't it be funny if the OP hadn't been banned, but phished out of his account by a fake support mail?

That said it IS hard for NCSoft to tell when someone buys gold. They can't know what the player does on eBay or gold seller sites, all they can do is track the movement of gold, and when large sums flow from, say, a known gold-seller account to someone, they may assume a transaction has taken place.
The fact that it's hard to prove that someone buys stuff (especially as gold-sellers use multiple accounts to "laundry" the gold) is why so few are banned for it.

But the OP's story is even more unlikely: he was banned for SELLING. That's even harder to prove; pretty much the only ways I know to get nabbed for that is to a) say you're selling for real cash in chat, b) sell to someone who screenshots & reports, or c) use the same email for eBay ad as you use for your account.

Ctb · Feb 28, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

On the server, ANET GM should only see "A gave B 100K".

Since you have inside knowledge about ANET's systems and internal processes, can I ask you a couple of other questions?

Oh.. wait... you have no such knowledge.. you're just wildly speculating again.

+1+1+1+1

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

On the server, ANET GM should only see "A gave B 100K". They wouldn't know if A is selling money for cash, or lending money to B, or transferring money between his own accounts.

If ANET judge this as guilty "A is selling moeny for cash", that means ANET ignored the other 66.6% of INNOCENT CHOICE.

Or may be a GM saw a whisper saying "did you receive my payment in your bank account"? Or may be this thread is an invention by one of the 117 who wants revenge, or an Internet troll that likes to create chaos? Or may be the GM clicked the wrong button? Or a packet-collision changed the ID of a banned player to the one of the OP's friend?

As someone said before in this thread (please read it, it's interesting), all we do is speculate. And try to make a little bit of sense into this thread before it's closed.

phan · Feb 28, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by U Wanna Die

I logged on to Guild Wars yesterday, and I get a PM from my friend but not on his account. He says, "I have a problem." ANet Perma-banned him for selling in-game items for real money. This never occured. He never sold anything for any money. He is an honest guy who I know well. I sent a complaint e-mail to the report e-mail of GW. I think it is stupid that maybe someone accidently reported him, instead of a bot or something and he got a false ban. ANet needs conclusive evidence to gives bans. I think that my friend, Tarlin Sharpsword (for all ANet reading), deserves his account back.

Tbh ; the people that duped the millionz & billionz of braces sent in just the same type of post here on guru ; trying to be innocent

Ofc it might be right but is there any proof that he didn't / did ..

I xxxxx a sentence because ofcourse you want that your friends get his account back ; but really posting on guru isn't going to help it ..

enter_the_zone · Feb 28, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

On ANET's servers, apparently.

But, unchecked before bans are issued, apparently

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

But, unchecked before bans are issued, apparently

The appearance is rather one of immature people getting banned and moaning to get back their accounts, while Anet takes the best care they can to not ban innocents, an impossible task given than some people's job depend on their illegal activities not getting caught, which means they'll go to great length to avoid being spotted.

And then there's the people like who prefer to accuse Anet, who attempted for the last 4 years to create a no-monthly-fee MMO that we can enjoy and would loose their while business if anyone had PROOF that they're not checking their server's data (it's not like the myth of this "ex-Anet employee" who wanted to reveal the "truth about GW", which turned out to be a load of lies and non-sense).

enter_the_zone · Feb 28, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This is a lie if you trust what Gaile said on this forum, she said that no banning action is automatic and it is always verified by a person (check the message where she said it on the Game & Dev Tracker).

So, Gaile has never lied or mislead anybody before, nor been lied to or mislead by others, either ?

It would actually be worse if it's not a ban bot, because then those people aren't doing their jobs correctly in the first place.

If Anet said straight, "Look guys, we need to keep costs down. We're putting a ban bot in place, and it may catch people who are innocent. If it does, send us an email and we can sort it out.", most people would cheer their honesty. Instead, they send email replies asking for every character name on the account, when they were last played etc etc. They are deliberately obstructive and monumentally slow. This data is already on their servers, an un-ban shouldn't take 3 days to a week to process.

The proof is in the unbanning, after sending emails to support. If the data is there to justify an un-ban, why wasn't it checked properly in the first place?

How do I know this happens? Because I know a number of people who have gone through the process of getting their accounts unbanned. One was banned because Anet thought her skill at Droks running with a R/Mo was botlike. She was also banned again after giving a guildie 100k to buy items while she was offline. Both times she got her account back. Another ally got banned for a similar "offence" and then unbanned on appeal.

Fril Estelin · Feb 28, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

So, Gaile has never lied or mislead anybody before, nor been lied to or mislead by others, either ?

I don't believe she ever did lie (unless you consider omitting to say a few things is a lie). For the Polar Bear Mini, she said she knew it was in the code but didn't know it was activated. The sheer madness of people's reaction was the people's own fault, the greed of some and the temptation for others (I'm not trying to blame everyone, I would have loved to be among the very lucky few), and some people took it on Gaile.

It's a natural reaction and we see it everyday. The PR (here it's CR) person ends up as the punching bag for angry and immature customers. I'd love to see these guys ending up in her shoes for a day or two!

Quote:

It would actually be worse if it's not a ban bot, because then those people aren't doing their jobs correctly in the first place.

The proof is in the unbanning, after sending emails to support. If the data is there to justify an un-ban, why wasn't it checked properly in the first place?

The un-banning is not proof that all data was not checked, simply that some data was not checked or misunterpreted. If you've ever been in customer support for big companies, you know this happens. That's why computer were invented, to make information processing fast. But contrarily to some other companies Anet choose the sensible and cost-effective way of asking human (though imperfect) to take care of this.

I think Anet is going a brilliant job, given the number of immature, greedy and non-sensical people (I'm not pointing the finger at you!) in this forum (it's a small fraction of a small fraction of the GW population and most people know that GWG's vision of GW is distorted by emotions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

an un-ban shouldn't take 3 days to a week to process.

And how would you know? Are you employed in a successfull company that produces a no-monthly-fee MMO?

This is your expectation, may be because you play other MMOs or simply want the answer to come to you in a matter of hours (the amount of patience people have can vary from seconds to days). And then there's the reality of Anet, they're not forcing you to stay (and surely not "don't care because they've got your money" as some say here).

Ah ... these emotional threads ... where are the other people?