Curse

enter_the_zone · Feb 15, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

"Guns don't kill people, rappers do."

On Topic: Guns in GW2 would be fine if done correctly.

arcanemacabre · Feb 15, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

Balancing is not an issue - flavor is. & as for guns being superior to swords - anyone who brings a handgun to a knife fight is a retard. Once you get into melee, any weapon designed for melee has a significant advantage over a firearm. And trust me, it's pretty easy to get into melee before someone can fire.

Yet somehow the guy with the bow & arrow is not at the same disadvantage? That just doesn't work out. Realism/flavor/whatever isn't the issue, either.

Besides, as I mentioned earlier, it doesn't have to be "guns" as we know them today (or even muskets). It could be like a Chinese hand-cannon - a bronze (or some kind of mythical metal that's lightweight and strong), 3-ft long, ornate cannon that fires metal balls about 1-2" thick. The propellant could even be a magical, self-refilling, explosive. The only thing that needs to be refilled by hand is the metal ball. Then the question remains - where do all those metal balls come from. Answer: same place all the arrows and spears come from.

Balance-wise, it could be the Hammer equivalent of ranged weapons. Range of the spear, no shield, slow fire rate, high damage, and with some skills that cause knockdown. That sounds cool to me, and it could fit the GW world.

Limu Tolkki · Feb 15, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Firearrage

Shoot bullets at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target.

Olim Chill · Feb 15, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Answer: same place all the arrows and spears come from.

LOL. Let's not even start looking for that place.

I would not be knocked out of "fantasy mode" by the introduction of a crude "hand cannon"... or something of that sort. However, I would not like to see anything that resembled the modern gun. That'd very much kill the mood.

Dark Kal · Feb 15, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I don't mind as long as their optional. I have no problems with them although I personally don't like them in fantasy oriented games.

Crom The Pale · Feb 15, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

The question would be balance, how do you create a weapon that is ranged and deals equal dmg to that of a bow/spear/staff or firing speed.

Would guns be barrel loaded muskets(2-handded), aoe dmg(15-30) but only fire once every 3 seconds? That might be an acceptable choice but would it really be pratically chosen and what proffession would wield this weapon? Dwarf/Asuran inventor?

As for the whole idea of guns in an RPG setting this really isn't such a big deal as explosives and rockets have been in many rpg's and even shown up in several old Myths. In Japan in the 1600's you had sword wielding samarai facing off against muskets, if that can happen in the real world why not in the fantasy world?

The Arching Healer · Feb 15, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

This is a RPG not a FPS!!!

Muspellsheimr · Feb 15, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

On the subject of golems - a Golem is an inanimate object, typically carved/constructed in a humanoid shape, animated by magical or divine power. In the typical fantasy setting, this is done by binding a spirit, usually elemental, to the material shell. The shell can be constructed of anything, stone & clay are just as common as iron. They have nothing involving the traditional view of technology - no mechanical mechanisms, no electrical components.

The Iron Forgeman in Sorrows Furnace is a golem.

On the subject of the cannons, I have already stated that they are far less advanced than a firearm. A firearm would require a far more advanced & compact mechanical firing mechanism. As such, it is not a good comparison, however could provide grounds for firearms to appear in Guild Wars 2.

Now, back to the main subject - Firearms in the current game. Bad idea.

Let's ignore balancing issues - they are simple.
Let's ignore real-world comparisons of firearms vs. other weaponry - to much detail I can get into.

Let's look at the real issue - firearms in the game setting. To begin, lets take a general view of weapons in various settings.

Fantasy: Fantasy is defined by it's medieval style weaponry - axes, bows, swords, etcetera. A very common occurrence in fantasy settings is Magic.

Modern: Self-explanatory. Uses anything available in the modern world, usually with a focus on firearms.

Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk: A more advanced version of Modern, firearm-style weapons are in abundance. Many of these are not even firearms by the actual definition, & only bear that name because of resemblances in their physical appearance & style of use. Many sci-fi & cyberpunk settings also have a heavy focus in medieval weaponry, such as swords and axes.

Now, Guild Wars is a Fantasy setting. There are some fantasy games that include firearms, but they are few. The vast majority of these games are terrible because they fail to have a clean merge of the settings.

The real issue with this idea is that Guild Wars was not designed for firearms to be included in the setting, and as such, adding them would detract a great deal from the game, ruining it's gameplay value.

If you want firearms, go play a modern or sci-fi game. I would recommend an FPS. Leave them out of this game.

N1ghtstalker · Feb 15, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

wanna shoot something?
go ele they launch stuff at their enemies like hell
no ele? go ranger they got a bow
not a bowlover? go for paragon
still not satisfied? buy an FPS

kaarde · Feb 15, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Yeah, why not make it a contitutionnal right to have guns! And then we could enter the academy and start shooting at everyone.....Damn

Guns in real life already sucked, for once let's leave them out of the picture. There are just enough games with guns around (and yeah guns kill fantasy RPG and don't say "look at WoW"......WoW is as crappy as crap can get!) to get your fill of gun totting you can just install any FPS and go at it.

Don't get me all wrong, i do play FPS too, but when it comes to Guild Wars i just think that the guns don't belong there.

Lawliet Kira · Feb 15, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Because this is NOT WoW

Wait for GW2

garethporlest18 · Feb 15, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

How about we drop the sissy weapons and go straight for the WMDs. Nuclear weapons on the charr.

Nuclear Booom. 30/3.5/60

You drop a huge bomb on the battlefield killing all monsters within a 3 battle radar radius and all of your party members. You get all the drops.

Chemical Warfare 15/5/30

For 5..15..20 seconds a huge chemical cloud surrounds the battlefield. All creatures without a chemical mask suffer from a random condition and take 5..50..130 damage every 3 seconds.

Oh yeah! RPGs too!

Missle launch:

RPG Skill. You fire 3..5..8 Missles at target foe and surrounding enemies. These missles cause Daze,Blind, Weakness for 5..8..15 seconds and do 60..220..350 damage.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 15, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I really did want GW2 to allow me to make a character with a longcoat, cane and rifle. I thought that would be cool.
And it'd be less nonsensical than an infinite supply of spears! ugh

Greyhart · Feb 15, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Having read this thread I don't think anyone has really answered the question head on?

Why can't you have firearms in GW?

It is not because of the time frame. Firearms have been about for much longer than people think but armies only started to figure out how to deploy them in about the 16th Century. (I am no historian so don't quote me, but i think my understanding is correct).

In GW1 the elements required for a firearm appear; there are fireworks and a cannon. All you need to do to make a firearm is pack a tube with gunpowder, then pack it with a shot of some sort and light the gun power. The difficult part is making it work in wet weather and not blowing yourself up.

Balance issue: it's for the developers to sort out how it fits not a killer problem. Firearms and bows co-existed for a long time before the firearm became the weapon of choice.

So why not in GW1? there are possibly 2 reasons:

1. It doesn't fit the conventional setting for this type of game.
2. You simply don't like it. Gut response nothing more, but a valid reason.

But other than that there is no reason why they can't appear.

Meat Axe · Feb 15, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I love it when people use the excuse "This is an RPG! Guns don't belong here! It's not an FPS!" That argument makes no sense. Whether a game has guns does not affect the genre of the game. An RPG is a role-playing game, simple as that. You take up some sort of role in the game, whether you control a specific character, or you choose a profession to take a specific role in the party. An FPS is simply a game based in first person, typically having guns as the main form of weaponry, although melee does play a role in most FPS games. A sensible argument would be that an FPS with melee isn't really a first-person shooter. It doesn't really work the other way, since an RPG isn't dependant on the type of weapon, nor on the perspective of the person you control.

Some of the best RPGs I have played have incorporated modern-day elements into a fantasy-type setting. Fallout, which is one of my favourite RPGs, is set in a post-apocalyptic world where guns are pretty much the main weapon. Final Fantasy games generally have a couple of party-joinable characters that wield a gun (it's always disappointed me that I, as the main character, always have to wield a sword. Even in FF8, where I got to use a gunblade, which is a very cool concept, I still had to use it as a sword). Arcanum also looked like a pretty cool concept, except I never found the time to play much past the first map, so I can't really judge.

The point is that a game in the RPG genre isn't mutually exclusive with combustion-based propulsion weaponry. If the game is developed in the right way, these weapons can be incorporated into the world seamlessly.

Rocky Raccoon · Feb 15, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Being a ranger I think the closest to a gun in game should be a cross bow.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Feb 15, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

@Nightstalker
Do you guys even know what is a FPS?
FPS is a First Person Shooter Game.
But it would be nice if GW2 would have a 1st Person Mode for Sniping in GvG or so^^.
Like in Oblivion.

@Muspell
You'r Funny, Modern Time have no Teleporting Devices, nor those other Self-Working Structures.
Then you said Sci-Fi is advanced Modern, So if it's Advance Modern, GW can be counted as Sci-Fi already^^.
And sorry, Hate the Battlefield, I hate games based on Modern Wars.
I remember Medievil is based on Europe, how bout Africa or Asia?
And the Present Timeline(EotN) GW is in "1078 AE(Mouvelian), 1588 CC(Canthan), 1278 DR(Elonian)"
Uhhh, what Timeline is that in the Real World?
And a Better excuse, Is Tyria even Earth?
So why not speed up the time, Next thing I am waiting for is a Airship XD.

quickmonty · Feb 15, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

To answer the OP:

GW does not have guns because the designers choose to not have them.

We have the choice to play the game or not.

MithranArkanere · Feb 15, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Ok. Let's see what we got.
We have gunpowder, well, dwarves have, but if they can we can. So we can propel bullets.
We have finesse in metal forging, as we can see in many intrincate weapons. So we can make bullets and barrels.
We have mechanical undesrtanding, as we can see from all the gears around. So we can make triggers and hammers, even revolver-like weapons.

The only thing needed is a war and time to make up the idea.
We have a war going on between humans and Charr. And 200 years is time enough to have even railguns.

So there's nothing stopping firearm weapons to be developed in GW.
Probably the Asura and the Humans working together would be the best possible source of the idea.

Muspellsheimr · Feb 15, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

@Muspell
You'r Funny, Modern Time have no Teleporting Devices, nor those other Self-Working Structures.
Then you said Sci-Fi is advanced Modern, So if it's Advance Modern, GW can be counted as Sci-Fi already^^.
And sorry, Hate the Battlefield, I hate games based on Modern Wars.
I remember Medievil is based on Europe, how bout Africa or Asia?
And the Present Timeline(EotN) GW is in "1078 AE(Mouvelian), 1588 CC(Canthan), 1278 DR(Elonian)"
Uhhh, what Timeline is that in the Real World?
And a Better excuse, Is Tyria even Earth?
So why not speed up the time, Next thing I am waiting for is a Airship XD.

First, this makes absolutely no sense at all, and has no relevance to anything I said.

Second, my point remains. Guns have no place in this game because they do not mesh with the game setting.