Curse

Crom The Pale · Feb 23, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

The closest thing to a standard template for a war that I could see, and its still variable would be...

3 High Damage skills
1 Condition skill/knockdown
1 IAS
1 Speed Buff
1 Self Heal/secondary proff skill
1 Secondary Proffession skill/resurect signet.

In general any build that meets that template will work, assuming youve got the attributes at correct levels for all skills.

As far as Attributes go there seams to be 2 acceptable spreads as far as I can tell.

1: 15 points in your weapon mastery and 13 in your shield attribute
2: 14 in weapon 11 in shield attribute and 10 in your secondary proffession attribute.

These are assuming 1 Major rune on helmet with +1 attribute and a minor rune on other piece of armor.

Unless your running something specialized like a scythe war or a farming build I think any build that fits this template should be concidered acceptable.

Winterclaw · Feb 23, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

You shouldn't be running around with a major rune on.

Qdq Swi · Feb 23, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Variants of 'cookie-cutter' builds are fine.. But.. in all honesty.. isn't it just easier to use 'cookie-cutter' builds instead of going to the effort of customizing it for different areas?

p.s. Yes, I'm too lazy ;p.

Keekles · Feb 23, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

What I see the template is:

Bull's strike, attack skill, attack skill, ias, movement speed boost, optional, optional, res sig.

12+1+1 in weapon 12+1 in 2ndary.

moriz · Feb 24, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Variants of 'cookie-cutter' builds are fine.. But.. in all honesty.. isn't it just easier to use 'cookie-cutter' builds instead of going to the effort of customizing it for different areas?

p.s. Yes, I'm too lazy ;p.

the best "cookie-cutter" builds allow quite a bit of variation. those warrior build that are commonly run (shock axe, dragon slasher etc) are optimized for straight-up offensive power and pvp play. however, that's not always what you want.

for instance, i once had to play monk in a caster-heavy pve area with some key bosses to shut down, and the group i was playing with did not have a mesmer. so i took the hybrid monk template:

rof, goh, dismiss, remove hex/holy veil, prot spirit/spirit bond

and added these skills to it:

rof, goh, dismiss, remove hex/holy veil, prot spirit/spirit bond, power block {e}, power return, power drain

my attribute spread was ugly as hell, but it worked pretty well. essentially, i was doing both monk and mesmer duty (and did it quite well, if i say so myself

). people got healed and protected by the hybrid monk template, and important casters got the shit interrupted out of them.

that i believe, should demonstrate just how powerful and versatile these templates can be.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 24, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

rof, goh, dismiss, remove hex/holy veil, prot spirit/spirit bond, power block {e}, power return, power drain

I would've went Magebane and DShot

Monks with bows are pr0

71.229 · Feb 25, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

The closest thing to a standard template for a war that I could see, and its still variable would be...

3 chainable skills, one causing DW
1 snare
1 IAS (Frenzy if PvP and not Hammer, Flail otherwise)
1 cancel stance (Rush if Final Thrust/Hammer Bash are not on your bar)
1 Self Heal/secondary proff skill/Enraging Charge (if hammer)
1 Rezsig/DPS

In general any build that meets that template will work, assuming youve got the attributes at correct levels for all skills.

As far as Attributes go there seams to be 2 acceptable spreads as far as I can tell.

1: 14 points in your weapon mastery and 12 Strength
2: 14/10/8

Fixed that for you.

Never go higher than 14 weapon mastery - major runes are bad and at r14, Axe sunder/crits hit for 58, so they skip just below proccing SB/PS.

Coloneh · Feb 25, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the "standard template" for both axe and sword warriors allow for some pretty ridiculous amount of customization.

sword:
sever, gash, final, bull's strike, frenzy, enraging charge

axe:
dismember, executioner's, bull's strike, frenzy, rush

both can be run quite effectively without elites. you can also substitute the straight-up attack skills on both with others (for example, eviscerate and dragon slash) as well as fill out the remaining skill slots.

for shits and giggles, i tried something like this a few days ago:

sever, gash, final, bull's strike, frenzy, enraging charge, mending, healing hands {e}

did it work? yep. simply because the basic sword template is very strong already. as long as i keep the template intact, i can quite literally run anything in the last two slots and i'll do just fine.

my point is, what's really "cookie cutter" should be the basic template of each build.

best non-ensign post ive seen in a long time... good job

itsvictor · Feb 25, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

HAMSTORM!...No wait, put criplslash+conjure in with firestorm...cripstorm! I'm a genius. The only thing you need is synergy between skills and you'll do fine. Cookie Cutting is never the "only' viable option.

Jetdoc · Feb 25, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the "standard template" for both axe and sword warriors allow for some pretty ridiculous amount of customization.

axe:
dismember, executioner's, bull's strike, frenzy, rush

my point is, what's really "cookie cutter" should be the basic template of each build.

I'm assuming that you're talking PvP, and not PvE, correct?

When you're facing mobs in PvE, the above axe build is inferior to the OP's original template (that doesn't contain any of those skills, other than dismember)?

That's the problem with "cookie cutter" builds in PvE...because you know what you're going to face ahead of time, it's likely that any cookie cutter build will likely require massive customization (and therefore making it no longer cookie cutter) to be the most efficient build for a specific PvE area.

moriz · Feb 25, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

a little bit of both actually. in pvp, i'll most likely spec for maximum damage. in pve, i have a little bit more leeway to play around if i wish.

the point of these templates is that you can pretty much build any build you want from them. each profession's got at least one such template. although it's possible to build a character from scratch without these templates, using the templates will at least give you a character with all the bases covered.

Skyros · Feb 25, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

A good player can make an inferior build very effective as long as they know how to use it.

Really?

Heres the bar: Flare + Res Sig.

Go make effective please.

Skill only goes so far. If you're a caster thats supposed to do a certain task but your bar doesn't have the e-management to sustain your performance, then its not your fault, its the build's fault. Some builds are just inherently bad and no amount of skill in the world is gonna turn that Flare + Res sig bar any more effective then it is (if at all).

Ismoke · Feb 25, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

You shouldn't be running around with a major rune on.

Confused? why wouldnt you? clarification plz?!

Crom The Pale · Feb 26, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

Really?

Heres the bar: Flare + Res Sig.

Go make effective please.

Skill only goes so far. If you're a caster thats supposed to do a certain task but your bar doesn't have the e-management to sustain your performance, then its not your fault, its the build's fault. Some builds are just inherently bad and no amount of skill in the world is gonna turn that Flare + Res sig bar any more effective then it is (if at all).

Sure, use Flare to pull with then run like hell as your party kills the poor fools that run into the ambush, then you return sitting just out of agro to rush in and res if anyone goes down

As to the other comment about using a Major Rune, I've 0 problems with it and even run a superior rune from time to time, but then I have good monks with me that know how to use protection and healing

Savio · Feb 26, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

When you're facing mobs in PvE, the above axe build is inferior to the OP's original template (that doesn't contain any of those skills, other than dismember)?

It depends on whether your build's goal is to have the highest DPS possible or to kill things.

Quote:

That's the problem with "cookie cutter" builds in PvE...because you know what you're going to face ahead of time, it's likely that any cookie cutter build will likely require massive customization (and therefore making it no longer cookie cutter) to be the most efficient build for a specific PvE area.

I can't think of a situation where you'd have to "massively" customize your build. At best you change out a couple of your utility slots, or you switch to another template.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ismoke

Confused? why wouldnt you? clarification plz?!

What you gain from using a major rune isn't worth -35 health.

Ismoke · Feb 26, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

What you gain from using a major rune isn't worth -35 health.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so a minor or a Sup no middle ground? Im still not getting it.. Sorry.....

Savio · Feb 26, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

In PvE it's your choice if you want to run majors or superiors; but the gains from using majors and superiors are really small. I'd rather have the health buffer than maybe an extra +1 to my attacks.

Winterclaw · Feb 26, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

To further clarify what savio said, how many skills that are worth having have a breakpoint at 15 points and is that breakpoint better than what's available at 14 points? Since this discussion is in the warrior forum, most warrior sword skills gain 2 damage points per rank increase. So in order to do 2 extra points of damage every 4-8 seconds you have to give up 35 life.

Now if you look at strength and tactics, there really aren't any skills I could justify having 35 less life for in order for you to use. Particularly in general PvE and in PvP.

The general rule of thumb is not to use any skill rune that's better than a minor. There are a handful of exceptions, but those are exceptions for specific reasons and you should use the runes at those times. This is further required with games like EotN and NF where enemies can do more damage and have more powerful skills.

Winterclaw · Feb 26, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ismoke

Quote:

What you gain from using a major rune isn't worth -35 health.

Thanks so a minor or a Sup no middle ground? Im still not getting it.. Sorry.....

For most purposes, don't use Sups either unless you are playing a 55 or 130 or something like that.

Skyros · Feb 26, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

it doesnt matter about minors majors or superiors... as long has your character has around +600 health... thats good enough.

Although this often means no superiors, major runes are fine. I usually go deck out in all survivors, vitaes, minor e-storage and a major rune of the element i am running.

with a caster sword (non +20% enchant but with +30 health) and an offhand (shield or offhand for caster w/e) you should have around 615 health. This is pretty standard health amt for casters in PvP (changes due to wep swaps) but in PvE it should be no different. I'm sure you can get away with some radiant inscriptions but honestly i dun see any profession really needing all radiant (excluding farming builds of course and 1 hp BiPs and etc.)