Curse

raven214 · Mar 01, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

I usually wouldn't bother to post in these negative threads, but I figure I'll give my .02 at least once. I've been around since the beginning, and I still enjoy GW. Factions was a bit of a let down, but Nightfall rocked, and GWEN has been a lot of fun too.

As much fun as the "newness" of the early days provided, I like many of the refinements that have come since then. And that happens with all games that receive patches and updates, especially those that are multiplayer/online. Sure, I haven't agreed with everything ANet's done, but on the whole I've enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to more GW and seeing GW2 in the future.

Master Knightfall · Mar 01, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I rarely see "meaningful discussion" on a forum.

I agree even the forums have "jumped the shark" as repeated topics and threads are seen on a weekly basis anymore and the moderators going around banning people for nothing or closing threads because they can't think of anything to say in them constructive. lol

DarkWasp · Mar 01, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Yeah, well luckily we havent had any posts like:

"What would happen if your computer got run over by a BMW and you jumped to save your GW characters and died!?"

Thats when we know we jumped the shark long ago.

(And yes there was a post like that in a forum for a half life mod)

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

/sigh

A topic on ANet's response to hackers has thought behind it.

This does not.

Okay. Then 99% of the threads in Riverside are just as pointless.

It's still a lose-lose situation for him, apparenty. Either make a "reposted" thread and get yelled at or "resurrect" an old thread and get yelled at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Let's not do this one-sided bullplot.
We encountered the grind issue once people decided to NOT stop playing once they ran out of things to do.
We are bitching about the insane grind and how it's trashing the game and at the same time we are still playing.

For me, it's less about the grind and much more about other things (in retrospect this is quite a retarded statement.) I don't mind that it exists in Guild Wars as long as it doesn't give you an better edge in PvE.

Kayelyyb · Mar 01, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

i think Gw jumped the shark when Anet decided to dumb down the game by releasing ursans so that any noob can beat the game.

(you know you were waiting for an Ursans complaint)

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayelyyb

i think Gw jumped the shark when Anet decided to dumb down the game by releasing ursans so that any noob can beat the game.

(you know you were waiting for an Ursans complaint)

While there is a lot to do with Ursan (let's spare this thread of that (for now at least)) it's more about PvE skills and titles in general. Simply put, they're a complete 180 of ANet's original vision of skill > time spent (i.e. time grinded.)

arcanemacabre · Mar 01, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

While there is a lot to do with Ursan (let's spare this thread of that (for now at least)) it's more about PvE skills and titles in general. Simply put, they're a complete 180 of ANet's original vision of skill > time spent (i.e. time grinded.)

Agreed.

To "jump the shark" is really about the realization that the *insert series/game/whatever* has reached its peak and will never be as good as it used to. It's the one thing that makes the general populace become aware. While it is subjective, it kinda needs to be something most of the players agree on. If it's a lot of little things, it wouldn't really be "jumping the shark," but just a gradual decline of quality/fun/whatever.

It's also generally a 'last ditch' effort to stay afloat. It needs to be something that Anet believes will 'save the game' or keep people playing, and is pretty obvious to everyone.

Most importantly, in order to be considered "jumping the shark," the game needs to be considered as not as good as it used to be by the players on average.

I'm not sure GW has met this last criteria, though. If it has, then I think what Bryant said is about right, at least for PvE. PvP is a different story, and one I'm not too familiar with so I will refrain from commenting.

Cacheelma · Mar 01, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

The blame is on us regarding this whole "titles give benefit" thing, really.

On a hindsight, we (as in, all of us, fanboys included, I was one of you back then, too) should've protested a lot more strongly when they started attaching benefits to these titles. What was the first one? Oh, right, Factions's Town Control. Ok it wasn't the title, but it was promoting grind for benefits, something we haven't had before in GW at that time.

And then they came in a big wave; salvage chance, Balth Faction maximum limit, lockpicking chance, and ultimately PvE skills. We should've told them there're many other ways to add more content to the game that don't involve grinding. And that we don't like how they did it.

But instead, most of us blindly worship them all the same (I admit I didn't post on webboards back then; just came and read mostly. So it's partly my fault for not saying anything too), to the point that they made the entire EoTN game based on ONE THING: Grind for various titles for PvE advantages.

I guess it won't be much of a stretch to think that if things keep going in this direction, GW2 will be EoTN with EVEN MORE grind. After all, which kind of customers would stay with the game despite EoTN? Wouldn't they be those who like the way things are in EoTN? And if that's the case, who in their right mind wouldn't make a game to PLEASE those people (i.e. a game similar to EoTN that they like)?

jcrayon · Mar 01, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

For historical context and to broaden your general knowledge, you should go and do some research on the origins of the phrase "Jumping the Shark".

Hint: In the tv-series from which the phrase is coined, someone did quite literally jump a shark.

zwei2stein · Mar 01, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

While there is a lot to do with Ursan (let's spare this thread of that (for now at least)) it's more about PvE skills and titles in general. Simply put, they're a complete 180 of ANet's original vision of skill > time spent (i.e. time grinded.)

Which puts jumping the shark moment shortly after release of HM.

RedNova88 · Mar 01, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

While there is a lot to do with Ursan (let's spare this thread of that (for now at least)) it's more about PvE skills and titles in general. Simply put, they're a complete 180 of ANet's original vision of skill > time spent (i.e. time grinded.)

Sadly this is true. Some titles aren't so bad and some PvE skills aren't so bad and don't have a negative affect (NF Sunspear skills/title for example) because they grew as your character did which was the right idea, imo. However when it came to Eye of the North the titles couldn't be maxed without a certain amount of farming, and on top of that the skills linked to those titles were overpowered beyond an acceptable amount.

I know Anet wants to reward players for sticking with them but I really don't think the titles they gave us were the right choice. I really don't mean to complain because it's not like they're charging us extra but I know they could have done better with the titles currently in game. We all know that time =/= skill, and this is especially true since the majority of players are casual, but really, even though the grind is optional and offers no real benefits in the long run... Why? Why has the motto skill > time been reversed? It makes no sense to me...

DivineEnvoy · Mar 01, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Throughout time, popular video games, famous movie stars, and even that soft drink we once enjoyed will change. Whether the change is good or bad, people will always rant about how it can be doomsdays or what not. Realisitically, they are just having a hard time adjusting to the new atmosphere, but it won't really rollback to the previous atmosphere just because a few species here and there dislike the new one. Relevantly, it's similar to the concept of survival of the fittest, species will go extinct if they are unable to make adjustments to go through the harsh weathers. Although in reality, extinction will not usually be the ultimate consequence, there isn't any significant difference if one chooses to adjust or not. However, with this said, if one is able to adjust to the changes made in this game, Guild Wars, I guess that person can enjoy the game and have fun, but if that person is unable to adjust, I guess he or she can always find a new game or complain here on Guru. The point is, no matter what this person chooses to do, time will still pass, and nothing will really be changed to satisfy this person. In the end, does it really matter?

In that sense, I guess Guild Wars has never jumped the shark for me. Of course, I would like to point out, if changes made to Guild Wars would appear to be jumping the shark for any of you, wouldn't you be better off without playing this game?

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 01, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

guild wars pvp went downhill after fac

pve has changed for the better, stop bitching

upier · Mar 01, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

But instead, most of us blindly worship them all the same (I admit I didn't post on webboards back then; just came and read mostly. So it's partly my fault for not saying anything too), to the point that they made the entire EoTN game based on ONE THING: Grind for various titles for PvE advantages.

To quote myself AGAIN:
AMAGAD!!1!!!
It was you!1!!

And to quote you again:
Burn the witch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

For me, it's less about the grind and much more about other things (in retrospect this is quite a retarded statement.) I don't mind that it exists in Guild Wars as long as it doesn't give you an better edge in PvE.

Yeah I see where you are coming from - and I most definitely share that view - something like the Lightbringer title was simply the most retarded thing that was introduced into GW up to that point.
But the thing that I need to ask myself is - are we just selfish little RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs?
Because PvE is pretty much an single player game. Thus actions taken outside of one's instance have NO influence on MY game.
Why the problem then?
I could see it being a problem IF the game was balanced on the actions of others - meaning that something could ONLY be done by running Ursan or your other most disliked PvE skill of choice. But from what I hear - those skills just make the game insanely easy instead.
I can see the problem in "LFP 1/8 Ursan rank 10 - FoW HM!!11" - but that is most definitely not something new. "Class" discrimination was always present - it's just that it used to be "NO mesmers LOLOLOLLOLLOLLO!11!!1". While that certainly isn't something positive - we got by. We made our own parties or we played with a group of people we knew.
So why is people having an edge over one a problem outside of not liking it?
Or is the fact that WE don't like it enough?

EPO Bot · Mar 01, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Trying to point out the jump the shark event of something that isn't over is pointless. GW may have become better or worse and back again, as long as the series isn't shelved completeley this topic has no meaning. The best stuff is probably yet to come with GW2.

Hell, some people on the jump the shark site even claim Heroes jumped half way season one. That's just unfair.

Angelic Upstart · Mar 01, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

I dont think there has been a single defining 'jump the shark 'momnet, more of a gradual decline / deviation from the formula that made GW in its original form what it was.

Pleikki · Mar 01, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Downhill when nf release indeed.. Before Factions it was best

Lihinel · Mar 01, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Like last time the answer is NO.
If you wanna see a game that jumped shark, look at Aurans Fury and its Dec 14th patch, now thats what we would call shark jumping at its best.

Cacheelma · Mar 01, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Fury? I don't think you can say something "jumped the shark" when it never had its high point to begin with.

Fail Fail Fail and then whoops, gone. That's not jumping the shark. Biting the dust more like.

Master Knightfall · Mar 01, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Before elitism set in was the best of times. They never should have had those $100,000 tournaments as that just caused more elitism beyond what it should have ever been. PVP players act as though PVE players should have no input on balance of skills because PVE players don't PVP. That's part of the elitism that needs to go and what was the shark moment of GW. HA used to be a FFA and fun and everybody grouped with everybody. Now if you don't have rank ? (what is it now 6? lol) the rest look down upon you forgetting that they were ZERO rank at one time begging and QQing and groveling to be able to get in a group. So, this is the problem with SKILL > TIME, you get elitists on the SKILL side just like you do on the TIME side so really they should have EQUAL value in the game so there should be BOTH in the game TIME grinds and SKILL arenas.