Curse

garethporlest18 · Mar 06, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Um I think a lot of you people have been playing the wrong persistent world games.

In LOTRO I have no problems with the world being persistent, I would expect Guild Wars 2 to be just the same. Sorry instancing is for the lose and GW 2 will be a much better game overall if it has persistent worlds.

Kill stealing can be prevented. Camping can be prevented.

Being in a persistent world isn't forced grouping and I don't see how you think it could be.

Lady Lozza · Mar 06, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Gareth, persistant worlds do force you to interact with other members of the gaming population. While this can be a good thing, it can also be a bad one.

Imagine you are out on your own exploring and an (or a bunch of) idiot players decide to grief you. They can't kill you, they can't kill steal, but one (or more) players can keep you bottled up in corner of the map.

People can follow you around, begging for help or money, all the time. In a persistant world there is nothing to stop them doing this.

I agree that instances can detract from game play, but given the general community of late, the "griefing" would make the game unbearable.

garethporlest18 · Mar 06, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Gareth, persistant worlds do force you to interact with other members of the gaming population. While this can be a good thing, it can also be a bad one.

Imagine you are out on your own exploring and an (or a bunch of) idiot players decide to grief you. They can't kill you, they can't kill steal, but one (or more) players can keep you bottled up in corner of the map.

How would they do this when you can walk through them ???

Quote:

People can follow you around, begging for help or money, all the time. In a persistant world there is nothing to stop them doing this.

I agree that instances can detract from game play, but given the general community of late, the "griefing" would make the game unbearable.

That's where ignore comes in. That player can follow you around sure but he can't do any harm to you, plus you can always report them for harassment if it's deterring from your gameplay.

creelie · Mar 06, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

I hold out hope - I think it could work. I like the idea of an explorable area that is similar to an enormous town with more to do. I don't see why they couldn't keep the district model; too many people trying to kill a boss? Jump to District 2!

I run into people I know in towns on a daily basis - running into them in the wilderness would be that much cooler.

Zonzai · Mar 06, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

The way that they are talking about it reminds me of many other games. I don't have any real complaints. At least, I don't care enough to actually care.

Lady Lozza · Mar 06, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

How would they do this when you can walk through them ???

They can't at the moment. Collision detection between characters has been asked for by players since day one. If they implement this (and they do have it in other games) griefing in this manner will become a possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

That's where ignore comes in. That player can follow you around sure but he can't do any harm to you, plus you can always report them for harassment if it's deterring from your gameplay.

I've been subject to this type of griefing before. Characters that run around you in circles and side to side in front of you. It can only be ignored for so long before it actually gives me a headache. 6/10 they give up before then - but look at the GWG community, players here would do this for hours just to get a rush out of someone logging off because they can't stand it anymore.

Reporting takes a long time, and often the punishment for this type of griefing isn't particularly severe (in the games I've played). I don't see it being any different here - especially since I doubt that they will implement GMs in game.

garethporlest18 · Mar 06, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

I hold out hope - I think it could work. I like the idea of an explorable area that is similar to an enormous town with more to do. I don't see why they couldn't keep the district model; too many people trying to kill a boss? Jump to District 2!

I run into people I know in towns on a daily basis - running into them in the wilderness would be that much cooler.

Yes.

Also the other good reasons:

When you log off, you don't get sent back to town having to make your way out to where you needed (killing all the mobs in the way) to finish a quest or get to an area, you can just come back in where you logged out at.

People can join your party from anywhere in the world, town or explorable area (in a persistent world) meaning you can talk to friends and be in their party as soon as they get on, not really that great but I think it's cool.

You can have people help you if you're having trouble on a mob instead of having to go all the way into town and going through it all again. How you ask? Well you transport them to you, there could be a skill or item that does that. Friends mostly for that but also random passerbys. Meaning you can also help people who are in need of it.

Kill stealing can be prevented by having enemies tagged as soon as you hit them. Camping can be prevented by faster spawns for mobs that would be camped and/or more spawns. Quest mob camping wouldn't really happen and if it did you could report the person.

I'm pretty sure Anet will know how to make persistent worlds work as well as they do in the other game I play and not have all your negative effects you guys are complaining about, around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

They can't at the moment. Collision detection between characters has been asked for by players since day one. If they implement this (and they do have it in other games) griefing in this manner will become a possibility.

They can very well take it off in PvE like they have it now. So I still don't see the problem. Seeing as PvP will be separate from the PvE worlds.

Quote:

I've been subject to this type of griefing before. Characters that run around you in circles and side to side in front of you. It can only be ignored for so long before it actually gives me a headache. 6/10 they give up before then - but look at the GWG community, players here would do this for hours just to get a rush out of someone logging off because they can't stand it anymore.

Reporting takes a long time, and often the punishment for this type of griefing isn't particularly severe (in the games I've played). I don't see it being any different here - especially since I doubt that they will implement GMs in game.

I've never experienced that type of griefing in the persistent world I play. Even in the free MMOs I've played I've not witnessed that kind of griefing and I doubt it would even happen at all if often in GW 2 and I'm pretty sure Anet knows and have something planned out for it. Besides you're not even sure this would happen you are just guessing at most. I don't want to take a chance and have Anet pass up on something amazingly fun like persistent worlds.

bigtime102 · Mar 06, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

How would they do this when you can walk through them ???

That's where ignore comes in. That player can follow you around sure but he can't do any harm to you, plus you can always report them for harassment if it's deterring from your gameplay.

There might be solutions to the problems of a persistant world but what are the benefits again?

I think the negatives outwiegh the positives and the positives like helping others on the fly or getting help can easily be replicated on an instanced world just by adding dynamic grouping options.

I played a number of MMO's with persistant worlds and I havent had much problem, then I came to GW and to my suprise rrealized how much better instanced worlds were in comparison. Especially in a game that seperates pve from pvp, theres really no point to a persistant world in a pve game other than grief.

garethporlest18 · Mar 06, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

There might be solutions to the problems of a persistant world but what are the benefits again?

I think the negatives outwiegh the positives and the positives like helping others on the fly or getting help can easily be replicated on an instanced world just by adding dynamic grouping options.

I played a number of MMO's with persistant worlds and I havent had much problem, then I came to GW and to my suprise rrealized how much better instanced worlds were in comparison. Especially in a game that seperates pve from pvp, theres really no point to a persistant world in a pve game other than grief.

I see 1-2 negatives if that, that cannot be fixed with persistent worlds. I listed more than 1 positive up above.

You guys are too focused on grief when it's a very small outcome of things. Plus Anet has already said GW is going to have more persistence to it, so it doesn't really matter.

Mechz · Mar 06, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

I'd love random attacks from Dragons. They have like 1,000,000 health, and you can only fend them off by meeting several requirements (ie, surviving for a set amount of time, dealing 100,000 damage, capturing strategical points... ) It could be like the new Alliance Battle. =D

Koudelka · Mar 06, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I hate this idea. This is exactly why I preferred Guild Wars over over online games: privacy. When I walk outside I DO NOT random people coming up to my mesmer and saying "ur hawt" and spamming me for party invites. Persistence also has a lot of problems...

Queueing for a boss... wow that's exciting
Trying to do something with 50 other idiots surrounding you... just no.
Being harassed wherever you go... is this meant to be fun?

And the "random events" thing is a load of rubbish! It's like in-game spam... leave me out of it. Unless they perfect persistence I will be very aggrovatd / disenchanted with Guild Wars.

Oh, and:

Quote:

Kill stealing can be prevented. Camping can be prevented.

Care to explain how?

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 06, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I don't mind persistence... but only if we can still used instanced versions of the maps.

Keithark · Mar 06, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koudelka

I hate this idea. This is exactly why I preferred Guild Wars over over online games: privacy. When I walk outside I DO NOT random people coming up to my mesmer and saying "ur hawt" and spamming me for party invites. Persistence also has a lot of problems...

Queueing for a boss... wow that's exciting
Trying to do something with 50 other idiots surrounding you... just no.
Being harassed wherever you go... is this meant to be fun?

And the "random events" thing is a load of rubbish! It's like in-game spam... leave me out of it. Unless they perfect persistence I will be very aggrovatd / disenchanted with Guild Wars.

Oh, and:

Care to explain how?

Spamming a mez for party invite? Where do you have that problem?

Master Knightfall · Mar 06, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

One thing these persistant world games couldn't do is prevent someone from "pulling harder mobs on top of you". The ole fun and grief trick in the Everquest series was to long range attack a mob or root it, then turn yourself invisible and wait for root to break and then run it past some unsuspecting noob and then zone out by either the entrance or exit or gate. Then zone back in as the agro of the mob changed to the unsuspecting noob. I saw more train wrecks like that in Everquest and while some were funny to watch, I know it wasn't fun for the noob. But, them being a noob, meh who cares. lol

Quote:

Quote:
Kill stealing can be prevented. Camping can be prevented.

Care to explain how?

While kills stealing can be prevented with first to hit which flags player/group and that player/group gets loot no matter who kills it, the camping problem still persists and then it becomes a battle of he with the fastest reflex and internet connection as to who owns said camp mob. I've seen this done in the Everquest II series and it always comes down to squabbling over the spawn. The only way to prevent camping really is to have random spawns of at least the boss mobs or any mobs that have valuable items on them that drop. Random spawns is a way to eliminate camping and random loot type drops as well.

J snukka · Mar 06, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

One thing these persistant world games couldn't do is prevent someone from "pulling harder mobs on top of you". The ole fun and grief trick in the Everquest series was to long range attack a mob or root it, then turn yourself invisible and wait for root to break and then run it past some unsuspecting noob and then zone out by either the entrance or exit or gate. Then zone back in as the agro of the mob changed to the unsuspecting noob. I saw more train wrecks like that in Everquest and while some were funny to watch, I know it wasn't fun for the noob. But, them being a noob, meh who cares. lol

im sure Anet will implement a report system to handle these problems. Their staff will be larger once they successfully sell GW2, which i think they will despite all the players that say they won't buy it for whatever reason.

on topic. i can't wait to play in a non-instance world. GW is my first MMO PC game and other non-instance games didn't catch my eye to wanna try them. So since i love guild wars, im very excited to experience a persistance world in guild wars. I have faith in Anet to diminish majority of the flaws a persistant world can have, that i at least read about.

beregond · Mar 06, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I like that idea personally...makes it feel more real in that you can run into people, you might stumble upon a noob and help him when he's about to die or something, might run into a friend on his way back to town. I just like the idea overall...havng instanced zones just gets lonely sometimes.

MSecorsky · Mar 06, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

We already know for a fact that they don't want another version of WoW, so I think we're worrying too much. While they're talking about larger persistent areas, they already stated that things like missions/dungeons etc. will be instanced.

It feels like, to me at least, over-sized towns that can have attacks from monsters occur in them while maintaining the instancing in critical areas that is the heart and soul of GW.

There HAS to be enough instancing that private parties have plenty of opportunities to escape the inevitable idiocy of excessive group settings, or GW2 will fail as just another WoW attempt.

Keeping assigned drops in instances and in persistent areas - vital.
Keeping PKing out of PvE persistent areas - vital.
Keeping level caps irrelevant - vital.

Anything else is selling out.

Balan Makki · Mar 06, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I'm betting that the entire persistent world will also include as many different, unique instances. It may even be you'll need to play through the many instances to unlock, move forward in, the persistent world.

Nevin · Mar 06, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

It'll be a nice change.

Something many people over look is the fact that WoW is a good game, criticize it all you want but 10 million people still play it, and a good amount of them really love it. The fact of the matter is both WoW and GW have great elements of gameplay, I see no harm in meshing the two to create an almost near perfect MMO experience.

Azeren Wrathe · Mar 06, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

i would prefer a non-instanced world (instanced missions and dungeons of course) its just more interesting than allways being by urself. Also the farming thing wouldnt be too bad, the world will be massive i would imagine, so there will be lots of places to farm. thats what i found in WoW, since there was 2 points where people had to farm there was allways a fairly decent portion of the population farming (I found) im talking about farming for mounts, ur first and epic. besides there were all those gold farmers who had obsene amounts of gold because they farmed non-stop and i never saw 1. anyway what im saying is if they make the world itself big enough with enough variety but with lots of spots with similar priced loot dropping e.g. 1 place drops boots= x amount, another place drops gloves worth the same amount, well every1 can find their own place but know they're getting good loot.