Curse

Eli Rela · Jan 18, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

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Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

That won't bother me as long as they add the option to PK people without stiff penalties like in Lineage2, you could PK but then you turned red and also had the chance to drop equipment if someone ganked you ^^.

PK and proud of it?? This is precisely why I want my own instance!
And if persistence will be added, so penalties for PK must be immediate perma-ban!

Mordakai · Jan 18, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

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Originally Posted by Eli Rela

PK and proud of it?? This is precisely why I want my own instance!
And if persistence will be added, so penalties for PK must be immediate perma-ban!

Or, just don't allow PKing at all if not in a PvP area.

Honestly, probably my least worry of Persistant areas.

Ouchie · Jan 18, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

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Originally Posted by garethporlest18

LOTRO does persistent worlds right. You do not have to interact with anyone if you do not want to, they aren't kill stealing as once you hit a monster it's assigned to you till it's dead/reset. Camping won't do much as if Anet handles drops the way they should, any drop that would be camped would be cheapend to an amount where you could buy it easily.

Griefing in LOTRO is almost non existent (it's there but not often for me, from what I've seen). But most of the fears that have been stated here are pretty much obsolete I think.

When I played it was a different kind of kill stealing people complained about

"don't kill my mobs get away" with more vibrant language inserted - one guy stands in a corner killing over and over the same mob for 7-12 hours straight and gets mad at anyone else who tries to kill them - even though there is a quest to kill them.

That is where the different servers made a difference the most populated had the most problems with camping mobs so when starting up you simply went to a server less people were on

garethporlest18 · Jan 18, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

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Originally Posted by Ouchie

When I played it was a different kind of kill stealing people complained about

"don't kill my mobs get away" with more vibrant language inserted - one guy stands in a corner killing over and over the same mob for 7-12 hours straight and gets mad at anyone else who tries to kill them - even though there is a quest to kill them.

That is where the different servers made a difference the most populated had the most problems with camping mobs so when starting up you simply went to a server less people were on

You could report them then for griefing in GW 2. (also I play on Brandywine and never encountered a problem such as that).

R.Shayne · Jan 18, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

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Originally Posted by warcrap

i couldnt be any happier because instances suck elephant balls!

And without instances this is the type of people I expect to encounter. Again ANET please make sure my Ignore list is unlimited in the number of people I can add to it.

Do you really want to be forced to play with these people?

Darksun · Jan 18, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

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Originally Posted by Alazardragoon

My biggest worry is if with the new big world the cost of keeping the servers up increases their for they decide to add a cash shop where Eventually some of the best stuff in the game can't be obtained without purchesing from that cash shop. That would absolutely kill guild wars imo. If they were to do that they might as well charge you a subscription fee instead. I really fear that this will happen and am REALLY hoping it does not.

ugh.. They already stated that based on the test they did persistent worlds were no more difficult or intensive to manage than instanced. That was the main reason they felt free to move over.

R.Shayne · Jan 18, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

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Originally Posted by garethporlest18

LOTRO does persistent worlds right. You do not have to interact with anyone if you do not want to, they aren't kill stealing as once you hit a monster it's assigned to you till it's dead/reset.

Does LoTRO have monks (Never played it)? Monks don't attack, they heal and what you just described means that a monk will never get a drop. Currently Healing Monks in Guild Wars are rare and the system you described would make it actually worse.

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Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Camping won't do much as if Anet handles drops the way they should, any drop that would be camped would be cheapend to an amount where you could buy it easily.

Being forced to buy anything I really want is not acceptable. I like the Bramble Sword skin (not a rare drop) but I still went out and got it myself. Call it thrill of the hunt if you want. I am currently farming for a rare drop that is overfarmed. It is bad enough that I am competing with poeple that only want it so they can make a profit because of the way the game is scripted to handle over farming but to be forced to look for a server where a spawn site is not being farmed / camped is not acceptable (especially if you have to run 15 minutes just to get to the spawn site) and then get reported because you are camping at a spawn site.

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Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Oh and about map travel, it'd be easy..just have a teleporter in each town that can port you to places for a small fee. Also mounts would be great too, sort of like mini's you can ride. Maybe get special mounts for birthday presents and at a certain level. Also, make jump have a use, have some quests that need to use Jump like in Perfect World, that'd be cool too.

Charge to map travel, that is fine as long as the fee is less then 1g.

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Originally Posted by garethporlest18

But yeah I'm all for persistent worlds.

Yeah I am all for instances and for selected parties.

Ctb · Jan 18, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me from your description like kill stealing (the way most people mean it) is still quite possible in LOTRO.

That's true, but most critical MOBs are in instances, so it's mitigated somewhat. And, again, this is one of those things where fostering a more intelligent, mature community really helps. There are a lot fewer jerks in LOTRO, so it really doesn't happen as often. Really, the main complaint I hear in LOTRO is people "ninja'ing" natural resources, but resource gathering is a free-for-all by design, so tough luck on that.

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It sounds like it is still theoretically possible in LOTRO as well.

It is, but the boss respawns are much quicker (since, unlike WoW, they're usually out of the way so it's not as common to wander into them and get wiped out by mistake) and, like I said, most of the "boss-type" enemies aren't quest-related (unless they're in an instance).

For example, consider the Wasterwander bandit you have to kill in Desolation as part of a Wanted: quest. That guy wanders a HUGE area, is usually being hunted by three or four people at once, and respawns slowly. A similar enemy in LOTRO is typically positioned such that he can be completed simultaneously with at least one other quest (which helps cut back the number of people who are hunting him at once), doesn't patrol nearly as large an area, and respawns every few minutes (most bosses seem to respawn within 2 to 3 minutes).

Boss hunts in the main world are really much less of a hassle than in WoW by many, many magnitudes. WoW ruins people on the entire persistence theme because the entire design of that game is complete crap from start to never-ending-lack-of-a-finish. Most of the annoying things in WoW don't HAVE to persist, they just do because Blizzard knows a lot of silly people will keep paying them month after month if they waste enough of their time.

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Now even when its only bound to them for 20-30 seconds thats still enough time for them to run round in circles and keep most mobs in a certain area bound to them.

You can do that in LOTRO too, but they don't stay bound for very long if you're running and they're not hitting (as would happen with a high level greifer), so just keeping them chasing indefinitely isn't really feasible. In fact, it's kind of a problem occasionally for farming because it's difficult to get a really good group surrounding you for AoE farming if you're too high of a level.

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You could report them then for griefing in GW 2.

Turbine accepts harrassment reports for that sort of thing in LOTRO too.

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Monks don't attack, they heal and what you just described means that a monk will never get a drop.

Minstrels, yes. And, of course they will get drops. MOB lock and loot distribution is PARTY based (even if you're a party of 1), not player based. Loot of higher quality can be implemented as a free-for-all system, Need verus Greed system, or a simple Round Robin dice roll (which is basically the Guild Wars version with the ability to "opt-out" of the roll if you want to).

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a spawn site is not being farmed / camped is not acceptable

I don't really know how to put this other than... too bad. It looks like it's going to be an MMO, and most people seem happy about that. If you want a 1 player game with a chat room, you might try Diablo 2. Not being snippy or anything, it's just that it seems like you're main gripe here is that it's not a one player game so you'll have to actually compete with other people to do something that is a very minor part of the overall game, and entirely your own choice....

Mordakai · Jan 18, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

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Originally Posted by Ctb

That's true, but most critical MOBs are in instances, so it's mitigated somewhat. And, again, this is one of those things where fostering a more intelligent, mature community really helps. There are a lot fewer jerks in LOTRO, so it really doesn't happen as often. Really, the main complaint I hear in LOTRO is people "ninja'ing" natural resources, but resource gathering is a free-for-all by design, so tough luck on that.

Of course, the counter argument is, just happening once is bad enough.

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Originally Posted by Ctb

Minstrels, yes. And, of course they will get drops. MOB lock and loot distribution is PARTY based (even if you're a party of 1), not player based. Loot of higher quality can be implemented as a free-for-all system, Need verus Greed system, or a simple Round Robin dice roll (which is basically the Guild Wars version with the ability to "opt-out" of the roll if you want to).

Do they actually use those terms, or are you just using the terms from WoW?

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Originally Posted by Ctb

I don't really know how to put this other than... too bad. It looks like it's going to be an MMO, and most people seem happy about that. If you want a 1 player game with a chat room, you might try Diablo 2. Not being snippy or anything, it's just that it seems like you're main gripe here is that it's not a one player game so you'll have to actually compete with other people to do something that is a very minor part of the overall game....

Eh.... No. If I play the demo of GW2 and it plays like WoW, I'm not going to buy it. WoW is 3 years old, so I can excuse the fed-ex and kill "x" quests, spawn camping, resource griefing, random duel challenges, etc. (BTW, despite these things, WoW is still fun to play, so I'm NOT bashing WoW)

But for a "next-gen" game not move the bar up any higher?

Inexcusable. I want Guild Wars 2 to revolutionize MMORPGs. Yes, I'm holding it to higher standards, frankly because I've seen what Anet can do, and expect them to do even better.

EDIT (since we're discussing MMORPGs, it's silly to leave WoW out of the discussion)

I'll also add here that WoW is probably going to have to re-structure its game as well. I don't know how long they can just keep bumping up the level cap and have people grind for their next Epic Tier armor before people get sick of it, and newbies will have too high to climb to even bother.

Ouchie · Jan 18, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

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Originally Posted by Ctb

That's true, but most critical MOBs are in instances, so it's mitigated somewhat. And, again, this is one of those things where fostering a more intelligent, mature community really helps. There are a lot fewer jerks in LOTRO, so it really doesn't happen as often. Really, the main complaint I hear in LOTRO is people "ninja'ing" natural resources, but resource gathering is a free-for-all by design, so tough luck on that.

This is only your perspective the LOTRO forums show that many feel that ninja'ing is not fair and rude.

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It is, but the boss respawns are much quicker (since, unlike WoW, they're usually out of the way so it's not as common to wander into them and get wiped out by mistake) and, like I said, most of the "boss-type" enemies aren't quest-related (unless they're in an instance).

But bosses dropped items needed for crafting and that was a large part of the game

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You can do that in LOTRO too, but they don't stay bound for very long if you're running and they're not hitting (as would happen with a high level greifer), so just keeping them chasing indefinitely isn't really feasible. In fact, it's kind of a problem occasionally for farming because it's difficult to get a really good group surrounding you for AoE farming if you're too high of a level.

People would train mobs on other people - they would be designated as someone elses for loot but you would have to fight them or let them kill you.

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Turbine accepts harrassment reports for that sort of thing in LOTRO too.

agreed

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Minstrels, yes. And, of course they will get drops. MOB lock and loot distribution is PARTY based (even if you're a party of 1), not player based. Loot of higher quality can be implemented as a free-for-all system, Need verus Greed system, or a simple Round Robin dice roll (which is basically the Guild Wars version with the ability to "opt-out" of the roll if you want to).

the need/greed/pass was a huge controversy especially in pugs where one person always needed everything.

Free for all just meant the fastest to click got everything.

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I don't really know how to put this other than... too bad. It looks like it's going to be an MMO, and most people seem happy about that. If you want a 1 player game with a chat room, you might try Diablo 2. Not being snippy or anything, it's just that it seems like you're main gripe here is that it's not a one player game so you'll have to actually compete with other people to do something that is a very minor part of the overall game....

I think people are worried about a fair system being input into GW2. Some people like to upset other people that is why they play, some people like to ninja, but the majority just want a fair share. No game will be perfect, but maybe some ideas posted here will give the GW2 team some extra insights.

Red Sonya · Jan 18, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

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Originally Posted by cebalrai

This is a silly discussion IMO. It all depends on how Anet implements non-instanced areas. There are a ton of different ways they could do it, and they've said they're going to avoid the pitfalls of other instanced MMOs... Whatever that means.

But for now we shouldn't even bother having this discussion. People are praising or bemoaning something they know *nothing* about. It's all speculation.

Mods should close this thread like they've closed other speculation-type threads before IMO.

Or you could just not come in here since you don't care about it. Obviously you're just wanting to troll and toss out some flame bait.

Anarkii · Jan 18, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

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Originally Posted by Mordakai

I'll also add here that WoW is probably going to have to re-structure its game as well. I don't know how long they can just keep bumping up the level cap and have people grind for their next Epic Tier armor before people get sick of it, and newbies will have to high to climb to even bother.

80(in Wrath of the Lich King) is probably going to stay as the cap for a long time. They can easily add more content later (Emerald Dream, South Seas, Maelstorm) without raising the cap after that. And considering the relative power of Arthas, it would make sense I should think.

Mordakai · Jan 18, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

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Originally Posted by Ouchie

I think people are worried about a fair system being input into GW2. Some people like to upset other people that is why they play, some people like to ninja, but the majority just want a fair share. No game will be perfect, but maybe some ideas posted here will give the GW2 team some extra insights.

Agreed.

I don't expect drops to be an issue: they can do assigned drops like they have now, or even (gasp!) design a system that drops weapons you actually NEED.

I know it's convention, but does every RPG have to drop a bunch of crap we can't use?

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Originally Posted by Anarkii

80(in Wrath of the Lich King) is probably going to stay as the cap for a long time. They can easily add more content later (Emerald Dream, South Seas, Maelstorm) without raising the cap after that. And considering the relative power of Arthas, it would make sense I should think.

I hope so. My goal now is to get to level 70 before WotLK. But, it sounds like I'll be able to make a Death Knight even if I'm not level 70, so it's all good...

Crom The Pale · Jan 18, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I have a feeling, in regards to kill stealling, that GW will take a simpler rout.

That being you have to deal X amount of damage to a foe to gain exp/drops and the exp will be based upon your lvl rather than number of people fighitng the monster. For non damage type chars you would have to be partied with a damage char to gain exp. Not a perfect system, but you get the idea.

Untill they release a functioning beta we are all just guessing about what COULD be wrong.

Bryant Again · Jan 18, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

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Originally Posted by Mordakai

I hope so. My goal now is to get to level 70 before WotLK. But, it sounds like I'll be able to make a Death Knight even if I'm not level 70, so it's all good...

WotLK isn't out in awhile. People needsta stop frettin 'bout this!

...Of course, I would love it if it got here sooner. My guilds weren't able to get into Naxx when it was first released.

Nevin · Jan 18, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I can't wait to be a level 70 Assassin hiding outside the gates of noob towns and locking them down, PKing any noob to step out. WAHWAHHAHA

garethporlest18 · Jan 18, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

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Originally Posted by R.Shayne

Does LoTRO have monks (Never played it)? Monks don't attack, they heal and what you just described means that a monk will never get a drop. Currently Healing Monks in Guild Wars are rare and the system you described would make it actually worse.

Minstrels heal, and they have attacks (like monks have smite) and like it's been said drops are assigned. Also monks do attack, monks protect and monks heal, don't know what Guild Wars you've been playing. Plus who's to say there will be monks in Guild Wars 2? And if they're are and Anet puts in a system like that do you think that they'll just leave it the way you state? I doubt it.

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Being forced to buy anything I really want is not acceptable. I like the Bramble Sword skin (not a rare drop) but I still went out and got it myself. Call it thrill of the hunt if you want. I am currently farming for a rare drop that is overfarmed. It is bad enough that I am competing with poeple that only want it so they can make a profit because of the way the game is scripted to handle over farming but to be forced to look for a server where a spawn site is not being farmed / camped is not acceptable (especially if you have to run 15 minutes just to get to the spawn site) and then get reported because you are camping at a spawn site.

Not forced, it's just an easier option and it's totally acceptable when the price is cheap enough. Using a Bramble Sword as an example, more than one mob will drop it. Anything rare would most likely need a party, if you didn't like that..well *puts up talk to the hand*. That's about it, it's rare for a reason and if you don't want to buy it or party then you're playing the wrong game. Also Anet has stated that there will be no servers (pretty sure I read that in this thread) and just one server, maybe for each place (like we have now).

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Charge to map travel, that is fine as long as the fee is less then 1g.

Depending on the distance actually, 50g-1k would be good. Maybe 2-3k for special areas. That's not much. If it's too much for you..well maybe you need to go somewhere else.

Jaceb · Jan 18, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Heh at least the healers can do everything that everyone can in Lotro & GW, monks(healers) are much better here. Think about doing something as a Holy Priest on WoW.

Slowly painfull to do anything (gather gold for example solo) as you can only spam smite so much before the sound starts to get on your nerves. Now thats slow.

However on the topic, i think opening the gw-world from the wraps (instances) can be quite a good decision. We're not so lonely anymore even outside towns thus the world feels more alive. I believe that Anet can solve the spawn camping for monsters or design quests in such a way where you don't have to deal with single monster - spawns (ie. kill that boss). WoW has basically solved this by "the faster they're killed - the faster they respawn", in the early days the respawns were slow but after that there was hardly any problems questing on highly populated zones.

Open-world but instanced dungeons(main quests), i'd like it

.

Craywulf · Jan 18, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I'm all for GW2 having continuous world because one of the MAJOR griefs my friends have with Guild Wars now is the instancing. We all have to meet in town/outpost and it has to be in the same district. Its such hassle to deal with. It discouraged a lot co-opt play. I ended up replacing my friends with heroes/henchmen. How sad is that for what is supposed to be a community-based online game.

Second biggest complaint is the lack of leveling up beyond Level 20. Personally I like the level cap at level 20. Many regular MMO players couldn't see past the cap or figure out why GW did such a thing. Most veteran GW players fully understand its implementation. The cap is there to do 2 things limit the need for grinding in PvE and keep things balanced in PvP.

As much as I like the cap, I would like to see GW2 do away with the whole xp=level thing. Instead I would have some other means of gaining attribute points. Maybe by quests/missions that award attribute points, but I'd put a cap of 170 (level 20) attribute points a character can have.

I think having XP bar gives the impression there's an inherent need to grind. So I would get rid of XP bar and turn it into a title based amount of kills a character had, which would give them the privilege to display their status/rank. So for example...after the first 100 kills your title would be Adventurer, then Pioneer after 500 kills, Veteran after 1000 kills, Conqueror after 5000 kills , and finally the title Legendary with 100,000 kills. I would also make it so if you killing feeble mobs, you're not getting awarded with the kill. You have to kill something that meets your status/rank (level) or greater.

So instead of saying I'm a level 20 N/Me, I could say I'm a Pioneer Necromancer/Mesmer.

As for map travel, I don't like it in a persistent world because it negates the whole point of having such a vast world out there. I wouldn't mind Asuran portals that charged you based on distance. I think it should be more costly than mounts. Lets face it Mounts are a money sink for WoW and it be nice to roam around on a Minatuar or griffon. I want to bring the adventuring back into MMO's.

Woop Shotty · Jan 18, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Shadow Form farmers will be yelling for everyone to get away