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Old Mar 13, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26   #281
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don't forget that WoW is made for 35 year olds in a basement
they are not used to the latest graphics
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 10:37 AM // 10:37   #282
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Originally Posted by Zaris
don't forget that WoW is made for 35 year olds in a basement
they are not used to the latest graphics
Can't even stop yourself from saying such thing huh?

Thanks for proving my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
EDIT: Cacheelma, you just made a "10 million flies can't be wrong" argument. Just wanted to point that out.
Yeah, they can ALL be wrong. But who cares? They're happy with what they're doing. I'm quite sure that's all that matters to them. They play WoW DESPITE all the bad points you try to point out. And I'm not saying they're right (please re-read my post), I'm saying that FOR THEM, bad graphic (in YOUR opinion) doesn't matter.

So feel free to bash the game all you want if it makes you feel any better about yourself and the game you play. I don't think any WoW players would care. I know I don't.
Last edited by Cacheelma; Mar 13, 2008 at 10:43 AM // 10:43..
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00   #283
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The graphics style of WoW is a very conscious design decision:

- low hardware requirements
- aging with grace
- cartoony and colorful, but done with a lot of love

I think these are important factors for MMOs

This style is by no means great, top-notch or state of the art. But EQ2 has terrible graphics despite a clearly superior engine. And I bet WoW can live with its graphics style for ages where other games just look outdated already.

They also planned ahead, WoW can be customized a lot in terms of interface and stuff like that. The graphics engine and textures are also very modular and has the option to be upgraded. A major facelift like EVE Online had it a while ago is quite easy with this system. After all, WoW is a giant database, and is more open than GW's "blob" system of storing data. They could shell out "WoW GFX Update 2008" a lot easier than other companies. They probably do not want to steal their own customers, see EQ1 -> EQ2. So they were building ahead for the future.

Sooner or later this thread will make me go back playing WoW for the x-th time...^^ But I usually always come back to GW.


Despite some ugly armor sets for paladins, I really like the landscapes and some parts of the graphics are good. The Blade's Edge Mountains are fantastic when you fly over them.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00   #284
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I will remind everyone again (specifically Numa) that WoW is not a cult, and you can stop playing at any time. If someone did not like the graphics, they wouldn't be playing WoW.

But the fact is that 10 million don't care about the graphics and/or like them. Subjectivity is a bastard, isn't it?
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21   #285
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I've yet to see any armor sets from WoW as detailed as the worst GW armors (e.g. prophecies Ranger armors).
WoW's armorsets excel less in detailed and high res textures and much more in character, emphasis, and design.

While these armorsets don't have the "detail" that Guild Wars has, they still look damn good and awesome:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
And that is my point. WoW's shitty graphics is by design, because the game is intended to run on basically anything sold the last ten years. The weak graphics of WoW are due to it being designed for the lowest common denominator.
And by the looks of it, it's shown to be a pretty damn smart design decision indeed.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51   #286
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Aren't all the good looking armour sets in WoW (for the most part) PVP only?

I've found and made myself some nice paladin armour, but every time I see someone in absolutely amazing armour (in terms of aesthetics and not functional stats), it tends to be PVP rewards.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53   #287
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Well, pardon me, but if you don't have a crappy computer, what's the draw of low res, low texture graphics again? "Aging with grace" is bullox; GW is just as old, they've kept up improving the graphics, and it looks just as good (or better) today as any other MMO on the market.

I'm not saying that there aren't people with bad computers, just that the argument, "They made it that way so anyone with a 10 year old computer can run it easily," is really kinda laughable to anyone who doesn't have a 10 year old computer. And I'm pretty sure GW's graphics can be run on old comps too, so...yeah, I'm not seeing anything that would endear anyone to WoW's graphics. I mean, remember this pic:

That is seriously the best you could find? It looks horrible, objectively horrible, like a game made, well, 10 years ago. Props to people who can't buy a new graphics card, yet can afford the monthly fee....

The armors have "character, emphasis, and design"? Sorry, I'm seeing a whole lot of standard fantasy-fare, exaggerated to ridiculousness and no different in basics than any other fantasy game. Yay shiny lights; are you forgetting all the shiny, sparkly, glowy stuff in GW? The only thing that's different is that, instead of some things being huge and some things being moderately realistic like in GW, EVERYTHING is to be huge and cartoony.

So, yeah, there's really nothing good about WoW's graphics for someone who can run something better. Can we get back to talking about the gameplay please, because this is really a lost cause for WoW.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55   #288
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And by the looks of it, it's shown to be a pretty damn smart design decision indeed.
Nobody said Blizzard is stupid, then again, Blizzard also had the ability to spend as much time and money as they needed to when developing WoW, a luxury most other games do not have.
WoW is not in any way groundbreaking, be it in graphics or game mechanics but what it does it does very well and sometimes thats all it takes.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56   #289
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Aren't all the good looking armour sets in WoW (for the most part) PVP only?

I've found and made myself some nice paladin armour, but every time I see someone in absolutely amazing armour (in terms of aesthetics and not functional stats), it tends to be PVP rewards.
Nope. PvP rewards are easier to get. That's why you see a lot of them.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02   #290
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But it'll mostly be successful in PvP, since you sacrifice stats for that resilience bonus (something I'm not willing to part with in PvE.)
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04   #291
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next will be GoW guilds of warcraft, when anet and bnet join forces to destroy social life completely. not only will we have mini pets that talk and do chores but our mounts will have full wardrobes and engravable id collars.

there will also be in-game calling features to allow you to order pizza and paying by plastic without ever leaving the game, then we just need a chair with a hole in it and a mini fridge next to the pc and we can play forever! they wont have a monthly fee, they will just take your first born child to use as slave labor to make the game better.

GoW= downfall of mankind, worse than any world war, plague or dinosaur killing comet.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
While these armorsets don't have the "detail" that Guild Wars has, they still look damn good and awesome:
So how do they look IN GAME, when they get rendered by the game engine, using omnidirectional shadowless light, and get stretched and filtered to heck?

Quote:
And by the looks of it, it's shown to be a pretty damn smart design decision indeed.
Sure. Most non-gamers have sucky machines incapable of running stuff like Crysis or Bioshock. Many of them use old machines, laptops, or integrated graphics. WoW is a game for non-gamers, it's made to run on stuff like that, and Blizzards artists did a good job given those restrictive constraints.

Personally I can't stand WoW's graphics; I'm told that if one can stomach the fugly kiddiness there's allegedly a good game underneath, but I really have no inclination to find out. Presentation does matter, and there WoW is fail.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11   #293
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
So how do they look IN GAME, when they get rendered by the game engine, using omnidirectional shadowless light, and get stretched and filtered to heck?
The only difference is color of the lighting. I took those with the WoW model viewer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High

That is seriously the best you could find?
Nope, just one of the coolest areas. The Hand of Gul'dan is a pretty badass volcano, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High
It looks horrible, objectively horrible, like a game made, well, 10 years ago. Props to people who can't buy a new graphics card, yet can afford the monthly fee....
Keyword bolded, since I love the area and its detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High
The armors have "character, emphasis, and design"? Sorry, I'm seeing a whole lot of standard fantasy-fare, exaggerated to ridiculousness and no different in basics than any other fantasy game.
That's what people love ; )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High
So, yeah, there's really nothing good about WoW's graphics for someone who can run something better. Can we get back to talking about the gameplay please, because this is really a lost cause for WoW.
You're right: In the end it's the quality of the game that matters, which is where WoW excels. When someone nitpicks on the graphics, you know that they don't have a whole lot left to argue about.
Last edited by Bryant Again; Mar 13, 2008 at 03:26 PM // 15:26..
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23   #294
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Well, pardon me, but if you don't have a crappy computer, what's the draw of low res, low texture graphics again? "Aging with grace" is bullox; GW is just as old, they've kept up improving the graphics, and it looks just as good (or better) today as any other MMO on the market.

I'm not saying that there aren't people with bad computers, just that the argument, "They made it that way so anyone with a 10 year old computer can run it easily," is really kinda laughable to anyone who doesn't have a 10 year old computer. And I'm pretty sure GW's graphics can be run on old comps too, so...yeah, I'm not seeing anything that would endear anyone to WoW's graphics. I mean, remember this pic:

That is seriously the best you could find? It looks horrible, objectively horrible, like a game made, well, 10 years ago. Props to people who can't buy a new graphics card, yet can afford the monthly fee....

The armors have "character, emphasis, and design"? Sorry, I'm seeing a whole lot of standard fantasy-fare, exaggerated to ridiculousness and no different in basics than any other fantasy game. Yay shiny lights; are you forgetting all the shiny, sparkly, glowy stuff in GW? The only thing that's different is that, instead of some things being huge and some things being moderately realistic like in GW, EVERYTHING is to be huge and cartoony.

So, yeah, there's really nothing good about WoW's graphics for someone who can run something better. Can we get back to talking about the gameplay please, because this is really a lost cause for WoW.
So what, exactly, is your point here, Sky? Other than expressing how YOU don't like WoW's graphic?

So yeah, you think the graphic in WoW is BAD. You don't care how it caters to people who have low-end PCs (like myself).

And...what? So WHAT? Apparently what "YOU" think doesn't seem to matter, as people who play WoW seem to be having FUN, DESPITE all these bad stuff you think the game has.

You want to talk gameplay? Oh yeah, go ahead. So basically in your opinion WoW's graphic is shitty and phail and whatever. Let's assume your opinion is SHARED by everyone in the world. So, why do you think the game is SUCH A SUCCESS?
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26   #295
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You're right: In the end it's the quality of the game that matters, which is where WoW wins. When someone nitpicks on the graphics, you know that they don't have a whole lot left to argue about.
I wont argue that WoW has been well made by a very experienced game developer but quality in this case is a highly subjective word to use, my feeling was quite the opposite, from being unable to log on for hours to the huge number of bots, the camping and PKing and the extensive use of macro's by players. A friend of mine is having his second computer bot his char to lv 70 so he can ebay that char, judging by the amount of chars for sale on ebay this is not an uncommon practice.

Easy and accessible, sure, it also has depth and the graphics are a subjective issue but I did not feel that WoW delivers a better quality game then GW.

Then again, I dont nitpick about graphics, WoW has much bigger issues then the graphics imho.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32   #296
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Well noted, Tijger, which is why I changed the word "wins" to "excels." WoW 'wins' in terms of financial success, but both GW and WoW are amazing games, both tailored for different audiences.
Last edited by Bryant Again; Mar 13, 2008 at 03:44 PM // 15:44..
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36   #297
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
And mediocre drops in WoW (namely grey weapons/armors) can be sold to vendor for a hefty amount of gold. Whenever you get it.

Your point being?

How many heroes do you have? Is it enough to substitute for the pointless drops you always get (and can't really be sold for much gold) in GW?
The drops in WOW are just as pointless. I find it very irritating that you basically just change your armor every 5 levels all mismatched from random drops. To get any sets of armor you have to grind 5 different dungeons and hope that you get it, and then if you're under 70, you'll just discard it anyway. The only way to get any decent set is to pvp forever which is impossible at first because everyone out gears you and you die in one shot. Which is why I find the PVP in WOW absolutley terrible. Their whole PVP revolves around stunning you for a minute striaght until your dead. It takes basically no skill.
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52   #298
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The drops in WOW are just as pointless. I find it very irritating that you basically just change your armor every 5 levels all mismatched from random drops. To get any sets of armor you have to grind 5 different dungeons and hope that you get it, and then if you're under 70, you'll just discard it anyway. The only way to get any decent set is to pvp forever which is impossible at first because everyone out gears you and you die in one shot. Which is why I find the PVP in WOW absolutley terrible. Their whole PVP revolves around stunning you for a minute striaght until your dead. It takes basically no skill.
Eh....I think it's kind of an agreeable argument to say that you can't expect THAT MUCH balanceness in the pvp of an item-based game like WoW. PvP in such game isn't based solely on your skill; it's about your items (mostly) and some of your skill. If you don't have fun in WoW PvP, just don't play it (much like how I don't like GW's pvp so I don't play it).

The only point of getting "set armors" before you reach max level in WoW is so that you have "the best" gear in your level range for....wait for it.... "PVP". You don't need to farm for any weapon/armor during you leveling days because, as you said, you will be able to use better stuff in just a few levels later (still you don't need to use the best stuff all the time).

You don't need to change your armor every 5 levels in WoW. I just use mostly whatever I get from quest rewards and instance drops (which I run for fun and I get exp while doing it anyway).

It's the same deal as weapon/armor in GW really. You keep changing your armor as you go through Tyria/Shing Jea/Istan until you get the max armor (assuming you don't use the "go north" cheat to get the max armor immediately in Istan). It's just that GW has lower max level so you get max stuff sooner.
Last edited by Cacheelma; Mar 13, 2008 at 03:57 PM // 15:57..
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00   #299
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Well, pardon me, but if you don't have a crappy computer, what's the draw of low res, low texture graphics again? "Aging with grace" is bullox; GW is just as old, they've kept up improving the graphics, and it looks just as good (or better) today as any other MMO on the market.
Lol, have you ever even looked at someone else in a town? Uber detailed armour may look sweet out in an instance where you're not going to have to run into anything but patrolling mobs and the other 7 people or AI you're with.. in town GW textures look just as bad, in fact in some cases a lot worse than any other MMO on the market. Why? Because they're not designed to be seen in a persistent world.

I don't have a crap computer, unless you call a quad core with a Geforce 8800 crap of course (I can certainly play GW with all the settings maxed out), but I play WoW. And you know what, just like some cartoons / animated films that are over 70 years old (Snow White before anyone asks) I actually like the graphic style.

In WoW I explore because I want to, because tooling around in Outland and soaring over Blades Edge Mountains is actually fun, seeing dragons skewered on huge rock formations while there's a fully animated sky above you has an epic feel to it. I'm not bumping my ass into every crack on the map for a pointless title, I'm just having fun, exploring for the hell of it.

Zinger's right, subjectivity's a bastard like that.
Last edited by Saraphim; Mar 13, 2008 at 04:15 PM // 16:15..
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Old Mar 13, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07   #300
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It's just if you want to do any heroics, people insist that you have pvp gear, so you basically have to do the pvp. I'm just saying what I like about GW is that the PVP actually relies on skill and making a good build, in WOW it really takes no skill, just half a brain and good gear. That's my biggest argument for GW, the way the skills and spells work in unison, there's a synergy to it. There is some of that in WOW but not nearly the same. Plus you have every skill at your disposal, so there's no thought to make a good skill bar.

I know you don't have to change every 5 levels, I'm just using that as an example... basically until you get to 70 you just have all mismatched looking armor, it just looks sloppy and ugly to me. I like that fact that in GW you can just buy the whole set and it's pretty much customizable.

There's pro's and con's to both games really, I really like the GW system better, I just think it needs to be a bigger world, which it seems like they are trying to do, and I think it's going to blow WOW away.

You guys think graphics don't matter, but I couldn't even play WOW at first after playing GW because if it. 10 million people can't be wrong? The main reason so many people play WOW is because it's advertised like hell, GW isn't really at all. Billions of people eat at McDonald's, does that make it great food?
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