Curse

MagmaRed · Mar 17, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Ok, I have played this game for 33 months. I am not new by any stretch. I also know that there are new people playing. However, I never had an issue with attribute points not being important. I also made sure to tell friends/guildmates how to get all their attributes, and encouraged them to do so. Lately, I have noticed a sad number of people with 185 or even 170 attribute points.

I don't PUG often, as most of what I do is done with H/H or friends/guildmates. However, lately I have been joining PUGs for FoW clears. Most groups ask people to ping a build, and if they don't, I will ask the team to do so. Depending on what time of day I am playing, I will jump to European or American servers to find a PUG. So it isn't just in one area, it happens on both servers.

When you ping a build, it does not include runes or head armor bonuses. So the typical numbers people would use are:

12-10-8
11-10-10
12-9-9
12-12-3

What I have noticed, however, are numbers like:

11-11
12-10-7
10-10-10

I ask why they don't have all their attribute points, and I always get the same answer.

"I just haven't done the quest yet." - or some variation of that.

FoW and UW are not areas that treat people nicely. Why would people try to do those areas when they haven't even maxed their character out yet? Worst was a Mesmer who only had Monk elites, 170 attributes, and didn't have max armor yet.

Is there a reason I am finding more people who don't understand why 200 attributes is important? Have people become so bad, that ne players don't get taught things like this?

Arcain · Mar 17, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

The reason I hated Proph was the long time before getting all the Attribute points. I guess some people are just lazy and figure they don't need the extra points. In Nightfall you'll end up with the max points just to advance the storyline.

Quru · Mar 17, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Actually, I have cleared FoW at HM with 185 attribute points on my char. And it was balanced, no ursan. I had no issues.

Althought i played necro, so in PvE dropping few points from Soul Reaping don't mean anything.

EDIT: What i'm trying to say is not that attributes aren't important, but that always it don't have big effect to miss 15 points.

EternalTempest · Mar 17, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

The reason I hated Proph was the long time before getting all the Attribute points. I guess some people are just lazy and figure they don't need the extra points. In Nightfall you'll end up with the max points just to advance the storyline.

In factions, you get them (not forced) before getting off the starting / training island before any lvl 20 content.

Kusandaa · Mar 17, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

All my lv20 characters except my warrior have done all quests. My war's missing one and it doesn't affect my farming build, so I haven't bothered... but I should since I use her a bit more these days.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 17, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

These are generally the same scrubs that refuse to take an optimal bar because either they find the one they have fun, or they think that just because their bar works in Scrubland (Prophecies) that it will work in places like the Realm of Torment.

Here's a way to see if someone is this particular flavour of scrub. Put them in places like the Maguuma Jungle, the Crystal Desert, or the Southern Shiverpeaks. They'll regard the Maguuma as challenging, the Crystal Desert as difficult, and the Southern Shiverpeaks as hard, and will take time to defeat each mob in these areas. A good player will regard it all as a cakewalk as far as difficulty goes, and will have no trouble steamrolling everything in it.

Disclaimer: This is not directed against people who know that they need them and plan to or who just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Chushingura · Mar 17, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Perhaps such players want to try something new, meaning limiting themselves to provide a challenge. It's no secret almost anything in PvE can be done with simple Heroes and Henchmen, without any special coordinated groups or guildmates, with exceptions of course.

Perhaps they are just noobs who know but purposely act dumb to be a pain in the arse for other people.

Perhaps they are really newbies to the game.

For example, you said you played for 33 months. An average player would be done with all aspects of GW in that time or long before that. How many people here actually play anymore, or play as much? Most are bored of GW already and have quit or become sporadic players until GW2 comes out (or some other better games etc).

And FoW and UW isn't hard at all. There is one build that doesn't need any attributes or whatever: Ursan. That single build concept is currently running rampant in all elite PVE areas and driving down the economy. Just look at Armbraces, Voltaic Spears etc. Prices now are a shadow of their former glory just a month ago, like 100k + 70e for an Armbrace then and only 100k + 10-20e now.

I've encountered people who didn't know about ascension, the attribute quests or the simple fact you need to be Ascended to enter FoW/UW. These people are nothing compared to the griefers, noobs and other players who just act dumb to piss other players off etc etc. I probably have stories of all types of encounters and players that would fill the Library of Congress.

To remedy most of these situations is simple. Just kick them out of party, join another party, or form your own, or do things with guildmates. Anytime you PuG anything, you risk wasting TIME, Patience and Money.

It's all a part of the game, any online game.

byteme! · Mar 17, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Stuff

Because the average gamers just want to "play". They don't care about the perfect build or the perfect specs. This is the way it should be. Freedom to do what you want with the game you paid for out of your own pocket. Of course then we have more experienced people like yourself and I who try to help newer players out. It is also our choice whether we want them in our group or not provided we are the party leader. But nonetheless it ain't any of my business so I'll leave it at that. I don't see any reason why they can't visit UW or wherever on their own terms in their own time. If they fail so be it! Not up to me to ruin it for them beforehand. It's not like we got Bouncers at the entrance to ToA screening everyone. *rolls eyes*

Cebe · Mar 17, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I think some people just don't stop and realise that higher an attribute, the bigger the numbers in the skill description, and generally the better the skill. I asked an alliance member yesterday to ping me his hero monk's build. I was happy to see it was a build I sent him...then I noticed he'd completely butchered the attributes. The hero had anywhere from 3-6 attribute points in every elementalist and monk magic line. I told him off, naturally, and had him correct it. Moments later he pinged his necro's bar. Again...points spread over EVERY attribute (even though the hero was only using Blood and Death magic). I tried to explain the concept of only putting points in attributes you're using.

I dare say I'll be reminding him of that in weeks/months to come.

Jetdoc · Mar 17, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

When you ping a build, it does not include runes or head armor bonuses. So the typical numbers people would use are:

12-10-8
11-10-10

What I have noticed, however, are numbers like:

12-10-7
10-10-10

Honestly, being one attribute point off isn't going to cause a noticeable difference in playing your character, unless you're at a breakeven point in your primary attribute (e.g. Expertise) or in a critical skill (e.g. +3 regen versus +2 regen for Mending - hahahahahaha).

MagmaRed · Mar 17, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Honestly, being one attribute point off isn't going to cause a noticeable difference in playing your character, unless you're at a breakeven point in your primary attribute (e.g. Expertise) or in a critical skill (e.g. +3 regen versus +2 regen for Mending - hahahahahaha).

I know that missing 15 attribute points won't break most builds. What disappoints me is that people don't seem to realize it makes their build BETTER. Factions and Nightfall, the quests are easy, and happen fast. Prophecies is longer, but not harder. If they are trying to farm FoW/UW for any reason, you'd think they would at least make themselves as best at doing that as possible.

Do people think they don't need those attributes, so why bother? Do people not know about them, or how to get them? Several of the people I have seen without all their attribute points were with someone from their guild. Why would you help them farm FoW/UW, but not help them get their attribute points?

Arduin · Mar 17, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

These are generally the same scrubs that refuse to take an optimal bar because either they find the one they have fun....

Yeah, you be damned if you play with a bar which you think is fun.

netniwk · Mar 17, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chushingura

Perhaps such players want to try something new, meaning limiting themselves to provide a challenge. It's no secret almost anything in PvE can be done with simple Heroes and Henchmen, without any special coordinated groups or guildmates, with exceptions of course.

If anything,not having all atribute points ristricts your ability to do original thing.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 17, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Yeah, you be damned if you play with a bar which you think is fun.

A bar that works to maximum effect is generally much more fun than the stress of running a sub-par build and repeatedly dying.

And if you don't like your class's roles (say you're a Ranger and you want to heal), maybe... roll a new character with the class that is meant to fulfill that role?

nvmu · Mar 17, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I for one would like more than 200 attribute points, when trying to run a general ss build of mine, which is 12(16) curses 12 blood and 3 soul reaping, it would be nice to run a 12/12/12

Jetdoc · Mar 17, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

A bar that works to maximum effect is generally much more fun than the stress of running a sub-par build and repeatedly dying.

Actually, in PvE, chances are you can run what you call a "sub-par" build and not die once.

Seriously, some players find experimentation and doing things "out of the norm" to be much more fun than efficiency. For others, efficiency is all there is.

I think we see representatives of both camps in this thread.

Bryant Again · Mar 17, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

"Do people not realize the importance of attributes?" Probably not, and it's just a percent of what will give you failure.

Part of the design of Guild Wars is that you never really know that something's wrong until you hit a wall and die. At that point you try to look into your and your enemy's builds to see what hit you. Unfortunately this isn't so easy to see, and many areas are much more forgivable than most.

So again, probably not. People don't know what's wrong until it hits them. You could very easily get away with have 185 attribute points probably throughout each campaign. My friend beat GW:EN thinking the max sword damage was 14-20.

lyra_song · Mar 17, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I like the Prophecies system because only players who did you know...quests (ie play the game, not bum rush through it), would end up with 200 attribute points ^_^

byteme! · Mar 17, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Actually, in PvE, chances are you can run what you call a "sub-par" build and not die once.

Seriously, some players find experimentation and doing things "out of the norm" to be much more fun than efficiency. For others, efficiency is all there is.

I think we see representatives of both camps in this thread.

Exactly! Leave the efficiencies to the more experienced players and let the newbies find their OWN way. We all paid our dues and started somewhere. Lets not forget our roots. Besides EVERYONE deserves to go through their OWN trial and errors just like many others have some 33 months ago.

gremlin · Mar 17, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Lack of 200 attribute points is something that should be pointed out to players in case they just didnt realise.

Skill bar content however is totally different

Its one of the most annoying things in gw and probably why many just play with heroes and henchies.

Let me explain something that will shock many

It is none of your business what armour weapons skills runes etc others have.
Play with them don't play with them but don't start running down they way they run their characters.

Ok if they ask for advice give it if your dropping them from the party explain why, otherwise mind your own business.