Curse

MirkoTeran · Mar 24, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

4 pages how someone said nothing... I think this deserves a /lock.

netniwk · Mar 24, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

. 7 heroes would actually be more balanced then ursan.

I have to disagree:sab's necro's,imbagons,Sy warrior,decent elle nukers
killer team right there.

BladeDVD · Mar 24, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You made me smile, Loviatar.

The sum total is truly:

First, I feel these are two entirely different topics; Ursan builds and 7-hero parties are very different game components.
The devs are aware of the players' collective opinions, as many track the discussions on a daily basis.
We'll share information as and when it becomes available based on the decisions made by the design team.

I am very sorry that I don't have more to share on these two subjects. Oh, and I am about the least political person you'll meet, so I'm not trying to hint, or suggest, or pretend there is anything other than what there is. Which is, right now, nada. Sorry. Thanks a lot for understanding.

My apologies if this isn't what you meant, but this is actually quite a change from what I understood Anet's policy to be on seven hero parties.

Best as I can remember, Anet's position on this was no because of the discouragement of team-play and the resources required to implement.

But the above is not saying that. It is saying that they are still tracking this discussion and that they will let us know if they decide to change anything.

I have to say I'm impressed. I really didn't think that all those people constantly asking for full hero parties were ever going to get anywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Oh, and everyone that says that 7 heroes would be overpowered- don't fail anymore, pl0x.
If 7 heroes limited by their ai (lol prot spirit on minions, SS suckage) is overpowered then what about 8 people, each with 3 pve skills? Wow, wouldn't THAT be overpowered?

I don't understand keep failing to understand that when people talk about 7 heroes being overpowered they mean in terms of what a single human player can do.

Obviously there is supposed to be a benefit to playing with others in a multi-player game. They want people to play together. UB, whatever else you want to say about it, certainly has more people playing with other people in the game.

DarkNecrid · Mar 24, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

ArenaNet's position can change at any time.

Isileth · Mar 24, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

I have to disagree:sab's necro's,imbagons,Sy warrior,decent elle nukers
killer team right there.

And you cant already do that with a team of players?

Besides that heroes cant use PvE skills, so no imbagons or SY warriors. A human team would still be much more powerful.

Tyla · Mar 24, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

I have to disagree:sab's necro's,imbagons,Sy warrior,decent elle nukers
killer team right there.

Heroes can't use PvE-only skills.
Nuking is redundant in HM, armour-ignoring damage = win.

And the true strong part of Sabway, lies in Soul Reaping, because things die fast in PvE.
If Soul Reaping dies, Sabway dies.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Mar 24, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Yes, its been said a thousand times, but it would be overpowered.

YES! 8 ursans are overpowered,
and YES! You can just throw together the build you would on hero's on too humans and steamroll even easier, but I think you guys are forgetting the whole idea behind hero's here: People use hero's because they dont want to play with people; playing 8 decent builds or ursanway requires people.

Both of these, ursanway and 8 humans, ARE both already overpowered. But in order for it to be overpowered, it has to be actually used by people. These two overpowered "builds" (they really arent builds) are kept in check by the fact that you need people; heroway you can just slap em' together and go, and, even though three its not really as powerful/effective as the other two, its more than enough too get through the majority of PvE. Thats why you see ursan/human groups in the higher-end pve places.

Its simple; Although 7 hero's still wouldnt be able to beat human/ursanway, its enough to take any high end area in PvE. And because of that, anyone can just get there and slap the stuff together and do a HM DoA run with 0 preparation time, while a human/ursan would take half hour/hour to organize.
The consequences of farming such areas so easily are pretty obvious.

Angelic Upstart · Mar 24, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

*crosses fingers * plz dont nerf ursan A-net! But on another note...what if A-net were to buff Ursan. For example, allow 7 heroes, and allow them to use UB. That way Tahlkora and Dunk will do all the healing, while you and your 5 ursan heroes annihilate the place. Isn't that a "balance" we can all get used to?

Are you serious or is my sarcasm detector broken today ?

BlackSephir · Mar 24, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

I don't understand keep failing to understand that when people talk about 7 heroes being overpowered they mean in terms of what a single human player can do.

You have 8 people in my party, I have 8 people in my party. Except that 7 out of 8 people in my party are controlled by AI. Your example fails, if you want to talk "in terms of what a single human player can do" then talk about solo farmers because I'm running a full party.

Quote:

Obviously there is supposed to be a benefit to playing with others in a multi-player game. They want people to play together. UB, whatever else you want to say about it, certainly has more people playing with other people in the game.

Obviously? Maybe you didn't get the memo, but GW WAS and still IS advertised as a game where you can play with AI, instead of humans. If they wanted people to play together, there'd never be henchmen.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 24, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

2 paragons and you win PvE.

BladeDVD · Mar 24, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You have 8 people in my party, I have 8 people in my party. Except that 7 out of 8 people in my party are controlled by AI. Your example fails, if you want to talk "in terms of what a single human player can do" then talk about solo farmers because I'm running a full party.

How does my example fail? Because you don't know the difference between a live person and AI?

Quote:

Obviously? Maybe you didn't get the memo, but GW WAS and still IS advertised as a game where you can play with AI, instead of humans. If they wanted people to play together, there'd never be henchmen.

Yes "obviously." It's a multi-player game. They need people to play together to make it a multi-player game. One way to do that is to make the game easier/more fun with more people. If you think that the existence of AI means they don't care if people play with other humans, then I don't think you understand how multi-player games work. People mostly play them to play with other people. If they can't find others to play with, most of them will move on to other games.

AJD · Mar 24, 2008, 12:11 PM // 12:11

People are really butt sore about the stupidest things.

I can't play because the game is not exactly how I want it. Since when was it ever that way? Get over yourselves.

IMO 7 heroes would kill the drive for others to game with others. Why not just go play FF1?

Amy Awien · Mar 24, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

... what with all the problems with hero AI, what do you think 7 heroes would be like? and micro-ing them all, you wouldnt be able to see with all the skillbar interfaces everywhere.

Leave that to the people that want to play with 7 heroes once they are implemented. I rarely micro-manage them, don't need to with the right build, just as you don't need to micro the henchies.

BlackSephir · Mar 24, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

How does my example fail? Because you don't know the difference between a live person and AI?

It fails because you don't see the difference between "single human" and "single human with 7 companions controlled by AI"

Quote:

Yes "obviously." It's a multi-player game. They need people to play together to make it a multi-player game. One way to do that is to make the game easier/more fun with more people. If you think that the existence of AI means they don't care if people play with other humans, then I don't think you understand how multi-player games work. People mostly play them to play with other people. If they can't find others to play with, most of them will move on to other games.

Yes, OBVIOUSLY GW was made for people who wanted to play a multiplayer game without other people. Shocking, eh? Of course, there were many quotes from the GW box saying you CAN play with people but also YOU can play with AI. If you have a quote that says that they want people to group, not to play with AI, please, enlighten us. Next time buy the game yourself and know what you're buying.

Oh, and for the record, you're so god damn naive if you think that not giving us 7 heroes will somehow make us pug. I'd rather take 3 heroes and 4 henchies than PUG with someone who's not in my guild or alliance. There's a good chance that you'll turn out to be just another "THIS IS SPARTA!!!1" Wammo who aggroes everything in the area. My heroes don't do that. Neither do henchies.

Frank Dudenstein · Mar 24, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

Man, she can rival Obama in the ability to talk without saying anything!

I lol'ed.

(You know .. it's what Obama actually does say that worries me the most. History has shown time and time again the socialism is far inferior to the free market in creating economic prosperity, yet Obama and his type somehow never seem to get it...)

But back on topic ... Anet for some reason feels the need to nudge the game towards PuGs and social play .. and both Ursanway and 3-hero-restriction accomplish this. I don't know why they feel the game should be this way, but it's their game and clearly that is the decision they have made.

Amy Awien · Mar 24, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

... make us pug ....

To add to that, I'd rather go with henchies (and no heroes) then PuG with someone who's only interest in the PuG is as a means of completing missions and quests.

Yandawar · Mar 24, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

A perspective on why seven heroes would be really nice which I think hasn't been brought up before yet quite like this:

I'm a casual player. Not a very good one either. I simply lack the time to become very good through experience (which is why I chose GuildWars to play: it's a game for casual players, right?). Same as I lack the time to play with humans. I might have to leave the computer at any time, and that's just not fair to any pug.
I'm currently three (two? I can't quite recall what the count was last) missions away from the end of Nightfall, and I find I'm very limited in my choice of heroes to bring. That is, if I don't bring a certain three heroes, I die. Painfully. (With those three heroes, I still die, but only through stupidity, not through simply being vastly underpowered.) I don't know how to play effectively with most other heroes (and probably am completely incapable of playing effectively with those other heroes, because they lack the right skills). But that sucks, because I don't actually like these three heroes all that much. I'd vastly prefer to bring Melonni and Koss. They make me smile so much.
I see heroes like armor and weapons. Something to accessorize with. Something to give the game the look and feel that I care for. Seven heroes would allow me to both bring my favorite hero accessories, and to stay alive.

Yes, I could download some cookie cutter builds from guildwiki for me and my heroes and steamroll my way through the game. But I don't want to - that's not a game I care to play. I want to fumble my way through on my own and feel a sense of accomplishment at the end - but at the same time I also want to sightsee and laugh at the hero interaction and random lines they toss out and just have a good time. Seven heroes would make this a whole lot more attainable, and probably make me play a wee bit more often than I do nowadays.

Default Name · Mar 24, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

Let me get this straight...

GWs team play sucked so much that solo options need to be gimped in order for people to group. What gives?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

Epic phail.

The "Multiplayer" tag doesn't magically create human teammates for your team to do what you want, when you want.

No one likes to chill in a dead town for hours LFG.

lyra_song · Mar 24, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Yandawar, i dont see how playing with seven heroes is NOT steamrolling your way through the game.

Also you dont know how to play with the other heroes, whats having more heroes going to do for you but be more of a liability?

If you want to get better and learn the game and accomplish something, then play the game.

What good is a hero ele if you dont know how to play as an ele in the first place for example?

You dont wanna use Guild wiki but you want a crutch using 7 heroes? Thats very hypocritical.

Yandawar · Mar 24, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Also you dont know how to play with the other heroes, whats having more heroes going to do for you but be more of a liability?

Make me smile? Be the accessories that I care about?
Koss and Melonni have a story. They have background. I care for them. They're marginally more effective in my hands than Gehraz and Devona, but if effectiveness was my goal, I'd go for the cookie cutter builds.
As long as I can stay alive and wrestle my way through to completing a mission every so often, I don't need to be more effective. And I'm at that point.
The problem is, I'm at that point in a way which doesn't give me very much at all of the fun which is the reason I play this game.

Seven heroes would have a lot of benefits, which have all been hashed out before. I'm pointing out that for players like me, it would have an additional benefit, namely enhancing the fun I have in this game by allowing me to play with the heroes I care about, rather than solely the heroes I need to stay alive. I'm hoping pointing that out might be the proverbial drop to sway Anet's opinion and actually give us those seven heroes.

Quote:

What good is a hero ele if you dont know how to play as an ele in the first place for example?

Cool looks and a background story?

Remember: casual player. We're very shallow in what we care about.