Curse

Lady Yuna · Feb 27, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyduktape

well, im not really complaining, well i kinda am, but not about me and money, cause i do have ways to make money, just not farming. farming is always something i enjoyed, but people, imo, have ruined it. definetly. haha, i just realized also that i contradicted myself when i said there's no way to make money. haha, i apologize. i just wont share those secrets, because they help me! and i dont want those ways overrun either! haha.

Yeah buying gold ftw eh?

Inferno Link · Feb 27, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

The new Runescape economy sucks.. I have been playing the game for 5 years and it's been very entertaining to see Jagex ruin their own game.. NOTHING will ever beat Runescape other than being free. Everything Jagex touched in runescape instantly went into fail mode.

Havent played GW that much so i can comment.. All I know is that if anyone wants to give me a fire staff thats better than my pyrewood staff (6-9 damage LOL) than thank you!

~~~Link~~~

Avant Garde · Feb 27, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

laizzes fair capitalism will probably save GW. I'm not updated on anything GW; I quit a month before the Factions campaign released so I may have some erroneous info; it's been a week since i loaded the game again and found the economy looked sad. Seriously, if Anet is the government in GW then the government screwed up the economy. Bad economy like in real life happens when the government steps in. Really though the elitist got screwed on this one, i lost money on my stacks of ecto from three years back. with this type of economy theres less incentive to play since everything seems to be easier. fow armor just went down to 15k level. seriously though guys 5k for ectos??? thats how much shards were. and shards are less than or equal to sapphires and rubies. Granted, the vabbian armor demand of course. vabbian armor is almost like fow armor in which it takes about the same amount of effort now to get it as it is with fow. An AH is probably needed to save this games fan base anyway > people set the price and people buy it at the price they can afford instead of the random spams on trade. ( by this i mean competition in the market will liven things up a little bit)

in retrospect though, it is, as it was before, a pvp game.

Snow Bunny · Feb 27, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

...You don't have to look to other games to see a better working economy than GW has - even Pre-Searing has a better economy! Seriously.

Pre-searing's economy is flawless.

I love it

Saphrium · Feb 27, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanatic 's faith

WRONG. The gw economy is like this. 0.01% (or less) can affort fow/... due to early start of playing/now powertrading because they have much mony.
some 50% has less then 50plat most of the time the other people can get much mony, but still won't be able to get anywhere near the 0.01% wich have stacks of ectos/armbraces/... Thats wrong.

He is right, you do not need to get fow to be the best, there are no performance penalty if you wear droks or even pvp armors, that's a sign of a good economy, the question is, are you one of those grinder people who wants fow to have more advantage than other cheaper armors? since they pay way more than you do for your pity 1k armors.

kerpall · Feb 27, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I currently think of the economy as being in rough shape, but let me define what i think a "Good" economy is:

A Good economy distinguishes rarer items from non-rare items by a decent value (Rare's would be expencive, commons would be cheap).
Rare items drop rarely, non rare items drop commonly (If you want an item to be rare, KEEP it rare).
Anet doesnt allow armbraces to flow like water, and sell for dirt cheap. (Due to over-powered skills).
Economy stays fairly steady, and prices of rare items don't fluctuate extremely (100k 1200e+ mini's drop to +300e, back up to +600e, down to +500e).
Values don't increase as item becomes less rare -_-
[Sample Scenerio] why would only 100 items ingame cost XXXe , and now that theres 200, cost double or triple than when there were less O.o ?

MoriaOrc · Feb 27, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

[Sample Scenerio] why would only 100 items ingame cost XXXe , and now that theres 200, cost double or triple than when there were less O.o ?

Because in the same time that the amount of items has doubled, the amount of money (gold, ecto, and armbrace being the main currencies) in the economy has increased by an order of a magnitude at least, causing the value of the currency to drop.

At the same time, the number of players that want these items is also several orders of a magnitude more then is available. This means that the price isn't what the average player can afford, but what the 200 richest players (actually, even fewer: not all 200 will be on the market at once) can afford. Their stock of wealth would have greatly increased in the mean time as well, meaning they can afford even more ridiculous prices.

This process should have been continuous from when the original 100 were introduced until when the new 100 were introduced, but may not have been noticeable if few were sold after their initial availability.

PS, which mini are we talking about here? The one that seems most obvious is the beetle, but there are less then 200 (probably closer to 120) in the game.

Aldric · Feb 27, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustyduktape

its crazy, the guildwars economy, imo, is extremely unstable. i stopped playing guildwars when a req 9 elemental sword was worth SO much money, over +200 ectos, now when i came back about 2 months later, i saw somebody selling one in teh sell forums for 40k? thats insane. now i have weapons that used to be worth over 100k, that are only worth 1-5k! its crazy. and the weapons that are still worth over 100k+20 or more ectos are only obtainable by people who either know the secrets of farming, or do Heroes Ascent like it's their job. i just wish the prices of weapons would go back to what they used to be. and as for making money, it's way to hard to make money now, nevermind the only way to do it is to farm, and everybody has over farmed everything! whats next, a req9 gold tyrian crystalline worth 50k? ugh, to bad its not what it was like 1-2 years ago.

Kudicious Kaylok.

People who say it's too hard to make money seldom are even trying to IMO.

I casually farm , I trade a little , I run free chests , most importantly I play the game (mostly in Normal Mode PVE) . When Hard Mode hit the streets I had 100k in my stash and yesterday I bought 2 sets of 15k Ranger armour and still have ~1.5M in plats/ecto's.

The best drops I've had was a +30 Sword Pommel and the odd Ruby. Making money is not difficult but making money without much effort is.

arcanemacabre · Feb 27, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

[Sample Scenerio] why would only 100 items ingame cost XXXe , and now that theres 200, cost double or triple than when there were less O.o ?

To add to MoriaOrc's explanation, you also have to consider other factors, such as changes in use like dedication in HoM. As GW2 nears, minipets are only getting more and more popular, especially the ones with severely limited numbers.

Think of this obscure example:

Say, for example, the amount of emeralds in the world increase by say 300%. Then, soon after, it is discovered that emeralds are the key to immortality. Do you think that the prices for emeralds would go down because there are a lot more, or up because now everyone wants them? Maybe stay the same because of some balance? Simply put, the price would skyrocket because of massive demand, and despite the severe increase in supply, there is still way to little to fill that demand.

isildorbiafra · Feb 27, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

1. Guild Wars economy is doing great. They just confirmed selling 5.000.000 copys!

2. (Rare) Items are more accesable to new players; i.e. anet will keep selling more copys of gw cause players wont loose intrest and quit because items are inaccesable to them!

3. Invest the time = buying the elite item you want. The economy is in perfect balance because as prices of items have droped, so have the prices of rare crafting materials meaning the amount of work and time needed to acumulate revenues has not changed in the least!

4. The onlyones complaining and whining on this thread and in game; and suffering as a result of the changes to the economy are farmers and gold traders. THE SAME ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR ALTERING THE ECONOMY.

I believe the saying goes: "You madeup your bed, now lay in it!"

jackie · Feb 27, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildorbiafra

1. Guild Wars economy is doing great. They just confirmed selling 5.000.000 copys!

2. (Rare) Items are more accesable to new players; i.e. anet will keep selling more copys of gw cause players wont loose intrest and quit because items are inaccesable to them!

3. Invest the time = buying the elite item you want. The economy is in perfect balance because as prices of items have droped, so have the prices of rare crafting materials meaning the amount of work and time needed to acumulate revenues has not changed in the least!

4. The onlyones complaining and whining on this thread and in game; and suffering as a result of the changes to the economy are farmers and gold traders. THE SAME ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR ALTERING THE ECONOMY.

I believe the saying goes: "You madeup your bed, now lay in it!"

Heheh nice troll

pfaile · Feb 27, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

That wan't really trolling, he did make some points.

Play the game, stuff drops, pick up everything, learn what to slavage and sell to merch vs what to sell to other palyers. If you find a weapon that you have not seen before, enter it in f10 and see if it is a rare skin. Then put it up on auction here. I make out pretty good. I keep about 100k in storage, keep about 50 lockpicks on my character at all times. Have two sets of elite armor, more minis than I know what to do with, and I have only been playing for about 5 months. I have never, ever been unable to buy what I NEED. Do I want a very, very rare mini? No. Do I have to have a very rare skin? No. So I go through doing what I want, gold has never been an issue. IF there is something in game that I want, I save for it.

azizul1975 · Feb 27, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

i dont understand why people say GW economy is bad. i've been playing for only 10 months, and yet i can buy anything I WANT ( not necessarily what other people want). i've been playing casually, make my legendary skill hunter (cost 290k iirc), bought kuuna (100k+15e), and open 100+ high end chest (and broke countless picks), and still have something like 270k in the bank.

thats good enough for ME.

if the definition of good economy means golds should be made available easily, and u must have sets of FOW armor, then i guess something is not right here.

to sum up, i'm fine with the way it is now.

ProgTes · Feb 27, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Tell me, what is good about an economy where you can't trade stuff for more then 3k over a price the game makers define?

Paloma Song · Feb 27, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Fixed that for you. And you are an idiot if you think armor is an indication of the economy.

First of all, you don't need to qualify everything you say as an opinion any more than you need to say "I think" before every thought you have. Assume that most things coming out of people's mouths are opinions. Worse, the item you turned into an opinion from the OP actually might not be merely an opinion - there are objective ways to compare those economies to determine which one is objectively better. I don't know anything about Ragnarok, however, to make those comparisons for the OP - who should have done so himself initially, particularly if he wanted wealthy players to agree that the GW economy has problems, since most do not have a clue about how the have-nots play the game and find it easier to assume everyone else is just lazy, or "greedy" as it was suggested earlier.

To turn it back on you a moment: you are an idiot if you think armor isn't an indicator as to the health of the economy. Armor in GW is one of the major moneysinks - the path money takes out of the system (as opposed to between players, which isn't a sink at all). If people are buying lots of armor, there might be too much money floating around the system. If not, then there might be too little.

When Anet tossed in the changes to looting (subsequently reducing future money inflow, and making existing money more valuable) they actually hurt the lower classes while helping the upper classes - lower classes found it even harder to make money for essentials like skills and weapons, while upper classes found that the large amounts of money they were hoarding were now worth even more than they had been. Low-end prices continued to fall, largely independently from the worth of money - these items were never in much demand, and they fall more as fewer people play, fewer newbies play, collector/endgame items fill the gap - this class of players will never be able to afford anything like 15k armor without farming. High-end items, however, continued to rise in price, as people who have capital can always use that capital to make more, and at the upper crust of GW society, inflation takes over.

Please don't mistake me; I know capitalism is the better and most utilitarian method - the most good for the most people, a long-term solution rather than a feel-good quick-fix. But there are two games going on here, two economies, one for the haves and one for the have-nots, and we'd be wise not to mistake them for a single one. We'd also be wise to remember that, unlike in the real world, there is a large amount of money being dragged into the economy anew every day, and that hastens the effect of economical decisions made by Anet (whereas in the real world, most economies only inject a miniscule amount of inflation per year intentionally, and when you go to work - farming! - you're being given money by other people - players! - not fresh from the mint).

In any case, a game which requires massive amounts of farming to afford what is considered fairly standard equipment - not trading, not playing, but farming - is a game with a very weakened economy. Everything else is just insult to injury.

Skyy High · Feb 27, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine

Well, after I quit RS, I still looked at the updates, and it seemed that the game's economy was near Great Depression level until December when the creators implemented some sort of trading post with set "market prices" (You can buy/sell items within 5% of the market price) that change over time based on what prices people buy/sell for. For example, if the Market Price was 1000 gold, you could buy/sell that item at a range of 950-1050. If everyone trades at 1050, the price would increase, and if its traded at 950, the price will decrease eventually. It made items more accessible to everyone, which helped a lot. I'm pretty sure that's why RS's economy is better than GW's at the moment. Oh, and RS has a few discontinued items from holiday events which are worth millions of gold, so that acts as a goal for rich people and keeps them from affecting the lower parts of the market. (We'd have this kind of thing in GW if the Yuletide Caps/Grenth Horns/Etc. were tradeable.) Plus, there isn't any "farming" aspect in RS (As we know it anyways...). Those factors pretty much make RS's economy near incomparable to GW's.

Incomparable? It sounds exactly the same.
Traders for materials, dyes, scrolls, runes, insignias, etc, that keep the prices reasonably steady.
Most items are easy enough to get (whether or not you pay with a little gold, or a lot of gold, it doesn't matter; the point is, you can get what you want/need easily enough).
A tiny fraction of items, mostly just for fun or showing off, are incredibly expensive - hello rare minis, everlasting tonics, low req/rare skin weapons, and prestige armor.

What's the difference?

ogre_jd · Feb 27, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProgTes

Tell me, what is good about an economy where you can't trade stuff for more then 3k over a price the game makers define?

No, no. Tell us what's *bad* about an economy where you cant trade stuff for more than 3k over the in-game merchant price?

Terraban · Feb 27, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by azizul1975

i dont understand why people say GW economy is bad. i've been playing for only 10 months, and yet i can buy anything I WANT ( not necessarily what other people want). i've been playing casually, make my legendary skill hunter (cost 290k iirc), bought kuuna (100k+15e), and open 100+ high end chest (and broke countless picks), and still have something like 270k in the bank.

thats good enough for ME.

if the definition of good economy means golds should be made available easily, and u must have sets of FOW armor, then i guess something is not right here.

to sum up, i'm fine with the way it is now.

Theres 3 people who cry about the economy...

1. People who can't afford expensive weapons
2. People who are filthy rich and are upset that weapons are cheaper.
3. People still whining about loot-scaling.

acerbity · Feb 27, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

so you're saying on runescape a party hat and a dragon chain dont have a big price differance?
i used to play runescape way too much, but quit when they removed the wildy... its a crap game but very addiciting...
i think the gw ecomony is way better....... infact, gw is better in every single way

ogre_jd · Feb 27, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Right now my only concern about the economy, just started this evening, is getting 100gp before my backpack and bag are filled to the brim with unidentified items.