Curse

CHunterX · Nov 30, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

If builds didn't get trashed on a weekly basis people wouldn't resort to running a 1-skill build that won't be changed.

malko050987 · Nov 30, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Ok, I've only read the first two pages, and I here are my thoughts, as few as I can manage besides (omg secksy skins in BMP!)

In most areas, UB still requiers some skill. Not in using your skillbar (That's like "switch to scythe, I'm using UB!, 11211112112112112"), but in knowing who to kill, knowing to form a wall to protect the squishies, etc. In most HM areas, going UB and then C-spacing will just result in a wipe or partial wipe.

I only went UB in elite areas a couple of times (DoA) and we failed each time, due to everybody choosing their own target and leaving the monks back.

I subscribe to the "UB users are skill-less newbs" theory, since it's mostly true. People who can't do it the proper way go UB, because even monkeys can mash buttons. It doesn't change the fact that they FINISHED the areas / got the title. True, they got it easier. Good for them. You can laugh at their Legendary Vanq when you see them in AB/Ra/Ta, making fools of themselves with "wuts a prepaertion?" Otherwise, they used the tools Anet gave them, and achieved their purpose.

Also, I suck at going UB. Seriously. I tried going in a full team, or just me and H/H, and I just died, over and over. It's probably because I hate playing tank/warrior/general melee, and my reflex is to kite when I get close, lol.

blue.rellik · Nov 30, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Did you even read my second paragraph? Assuming you didn't, let me summarize it for you. Your so-called morals of how to play the game are really just one perspective or one way to play the game. What you have said above just further reinforces my point: you want to force your way on other people, because you believe it's the right way. However, the so-called right way does not exist.

No. It is not my morals. It is LIFE.

If you want something good, you work for it, you do not equip one skill and mash the same button over and over again and get the reward. Do you even understand the idea of the prestige items in Guild Wars? They are something you have to work for to get, look at Obsidian Armor. Right now every wammo/prot-less monk/flare spamming ele has it but they worked for it. They spent many hours killing spiders, they spent many hours running to the frozen wastes and aggroing smites. They did not use one skill and spam it on recharge.

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As I have stated above, many players such as myself do not have enough time to play the game like others. If they want to get through the game faster with a runner or Ursan, that's their option of playing smart.

Running is different, it just brings you to the same areas that you could have easily got to without any skill. Any skill-less player can reach Droks with crappy builds.

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If they have to follow what you have stated above, it is likely they'll have a hard time to keep playing the game while maintaining their schedules in real life.

That's their problem then. If you have a busy schedule then you're quite *donk donk* in the head to try and devote time to a MMO.

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Just a note, I'm not saying Ursan Blessing is not overpowered, but I'm pointing out there are other ways around the game than what you have stated.

Yes I know but in general in most games if you want to good top-end items and titles, you work for it. Because what is the point of having 95% of skills in if you can just bear it? It's a spit in the face for the hard workers and skill players.

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This brings me a question, why do you believe that you have the cosmic authority to dictate other people to play your way even if they will experience hardships while doing so?

Because it's damn not fair fullstop. How would you like it if you're working hard to put bread on the table for your family only to hear of the lazy bum of a neighbor next door wins the lottery and spends the rest of his life in a multi-million dollar mansion and setting him and his kids up for life?

Same thing applies here, Obsidian Armour, Tormented Weapons Guardian/Vanquishing titles etc etc should be for the people that really worked hard for them (they are prestige after all) not some brain-less twat pressing '1' on the keyboard for twenty minutes.

Cass · Nov 30, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Cute that you're worried about the 'value' of your Leg. Vanquisher title, but wake up.

Every single title in GW gets devalued in a bad way, PvP and PvE alike. To keep to the current context, here's a couple of PvE examples:

Survivor - get a runner in Cantha, go 'doorman' in FFF runs. 0 effort, 0 risk. Or as I heard from a guildie of mine, you can do Fronis Irontoe's Lair over and over and never die as you only get KO'ed.

Carto - Mapping programs now exist to show you ingame the little areas that you still miss so that you can run to them directly, not wasting hours licking all walls as you had to before.

And now vanquishing is made easier by Ursan Blessing, along with everything else in the PvE world, I might add. I'm not saying you shouldn't care, but perhaps it is time to realize that a title means NOTHING in itself. The way you got the title is what is important.
You'll know soon enough whether that Survivor knows how to play or not, and what that title represents for him/her.

Cargan · Nov 30, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ursan makes HM = NM.

I really can't be bothered reading past the second page, so apologies if any of this is repeated.

Ursan does make HM = NM, but also pugs make NM = HM. so really, it balances out. It would be a different matter if you could make heroes use it.

I tried a couple of areas in DoA with pugs and it was a disaster. They ask me to call targets, so I call targets and no-one follows causing party wipes. The bottom line is if people are bad players they still won't make it through the harder areas just because they have ursan.

It's just a way for people who know what they're doing to go from one cookie-cutter build to another while not excluding other professions. The people who were comfortable with a place in the old cookie-cutter builds will complain that the people who didn't have a place in the builds have a place in the new one. Unfortunately for the complainers, their "elite" areas are not just for certain professions or people in organised guilds. They're there for everyone to use. The way some people go on make it sound as if the game isn't instanced and that other peoples progress affects them.

For the moaners: In actual fact, this making the game "easier" for other people benefits everyone else also. By allowing people who may not have been able to earn titles another way it extends the favour of the gods for the rest of us. Is having favour of the gods a bad thing? I think not.

reverse_oreo · Nov 30, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

I think we've already beaten the UB horse to a bloody pulp haven't we?

no, if we did, it would be gone. But it is not.

Sleeper Service · Nov 30, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cargan

I really can't be bothered reading past the second page, so apologies if any of this is repeated.

Ursan does make HM = NM, but also pugs make NM = HM. so really, it balances out. It would be a different matter if you could make heroes use it.

I tried a couple of areas in DoA with pugs and it was a disaster. They ask me to call targets, so I call targets and no-one follows causing party wipes. The bottom line is if people are bad players they still won't make it through the harder areas just because they have ursan.

It's just a way for people who know what they're doing to go from one cookie-cutter build to another while not excluding other professions. The people who were comfortable with a place in the old cookie-cutter builds will complain that the people who didn't have a place in the builds have a place in the new one. Unfortunately for the complainers, their "elite" areas are not just for certain professions or people in organised guilds. They're there for everyone to use. The way some people go on make it sound as if the game isn't instanced and that other peoples progress affects them.

For the moaners: In actual fact, this making the game "easier" for other people benefits everyone else also. By allowing people who may not have been able to earn titles another way it extends the favour of the gods for the rest of us. Is having favour of the gods a bad thing? I think not.

Wrong.

For:

Rather than Anet buffing certain classes and skills in order to make them viable in PvE while ensuring that those same buffs would not render the enemy mobs totally overpowering.

Rather than Anet ensuring that level design is compatible with all classes and that "Elite" areas require greater player skill and a better skill set instead of using certain FIXED team templates specific to each area.

Rather than HM enabling true dual profession enemy mobs with proper VIABLE builds to fight against instead of "faster, stronger, higher level everything".

they give us....UB. The equivalent of a "you win" button. Its the quickest DIRTIEST "fix" they could have come up with and just SPITS into the face of PvE players as far as balance is concerned.

Its only going to kill the game in the medium to long run as people obtain everything they want and no longer see the point in playing.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 30, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I used to be angry about UB but am ok with it now. My primary character is a Necromancer and there are very few places in GW that turn away Necros. The same isn't true for the "undesirable" classes and UB gives them a way to get into a group and do things they need(for titles or HoM stuff) or want(fun!) to do. Everyone knows that UB is just mindless button mashing similar to what we used to do on our Super Nintendos while playing Street Fighter 2. But even then theres a right way and a wrong way to use UB. Right way: have someone call targets for more effective spikes. Wrong way: pressing C + Space Bar and just randomly attacking the closest foe.

trobinson97 · Nov 30, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Wrong.

For:

Rather than Anet buffing certain classes and skills in order to make them viable in PvE while ensuring that those same buffs would not render the enemy mobs totally overpowering.

Rather than Anet ensuring that level design is compatible with all classes and that "Elite" areas require greater player skill and a better skill set instead of using certain FIXED team templates specific to each area.

Rather than HM enabling true dual profession enemy mobs with proper VIABLE builds to fight against instead of "faster, stronger, higher level everything".

they give us....UB. The equivalent of a "you win" button. Its the quickest DIRTIEST "fix" they could have come up with and just SPITS into the face of PvE players as far as balance is concerned.

Its only going to kill the game in the medium to long run as people obtain everything they want and no longer see the point in playing.

Why must you guys exaggerate and call UB a "you win" button, or equate it to an "insta-kill" button. It's nowhere near close to that, and you just sound desperate. So a few people get in a group and use a skill cooperatively, that means team work is "you win". No group is just going to play UB with no idea of what's going to happen in DoA and win. They still have to learn the mobs, they still have to aggro responsibly, they still have to apply team tactics, they're just doing it with UB because managing 2 skills is a lot easier than managing 6. It may be a simpler method but none of you can make me believe it's a "you win" button, simply because it's not true.

If I am on a team that knows a specific area, has skills that counter or overpower the skills of the enemy of that area, and plays well as a team, we're going to win. It doesn't matter if we are using UB or not. UB teams can fail, UB teams DO fail, so where's this auto win feature? There is none, except teamwork. If we know the area, and can counter the mobs, manage aggro and coordinate our targets, we will win. You work well with the team, you're rewarded with success, UB or no UB.

payne · Nov 30, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

Vanquishing simply takes time, not skill. Anyone can go vanquish an area with 60dp if they have the time. Don't hate Ursan because it's efficient. People who couldn't spend HOURS to finish something can use Ursan PUGs to complete that same task in less time. Is the time decreased BECAUSE of Ursan? Not really. It's just as easy for 8 people to run other builds and finish vanquishing, dungeons, whatever in the SAME amount of time, but it's faster for a PUG to set up Ursan and not screw up when they go in.

vanquishing does take skill...I know it does not count but it does take a certain level of skill to clear out a RoT area...it doesn't count towards the title but good for grinding up LB points and nice prep. for GoM HM...takes a fair amount of skill to counter monsters of that power in HM without a certain amount of skill / stratergy!
not everyone can complete an average vanquish...I fail sometimes (trying new builds or helping a less skilled player achieve something) everyone fails...just UB seems to really be reducing the number of fails I see and alot more leg.guardian / vanquisher titles that are being displayed
^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

My thought is mind your own business and let ppl play how they want to play. Don't like ursanway, don't use it. A pve only skill needs a nerf? Do you understand why skills get nerfed/buffed? No, of course you don't have any clue at all or you wouldn't have suggested that. Here's your answer: pvp balance. Are you seeing the pointlessness of your suggestion yet?

seed of life (or whatever that sunspear monk skill was) I believe it was...nerfed? over-powered? yup and yup PvE only skill? yup
its my views I just enjoy seeing other peoples on this topic!

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Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Most HM guilds i have been in just play lame UB. So i have given up on that. Now friends well i have 2 friends in this game who are still playing. And you will understand that we are not always on at the same time. So lastly that leaves H/H for me which i usually quit after half a vanguish cos its so utterly boring.

O and by the way you can add me to your friends list if you ever want someone else to play with that doesn't want to play with UB!

just thought it may cheer you up that extra bit ^^

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off topic: (form are own guild if you like the pair of us and your mates and mine?) idea aent it? what do you think? - or join the guild me and my mate started - get new alliance and never use UB?

Sleeper Service · Nov 30, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Why must you guys exaggerate and call UB a "you win" button, or equate it to an "insta-kill" button. It's nowhere near close to that, and you just sound desperate. So a few people get in a group and use a skill cooperatively, that means team work is "you win". No group is just going to play UB with no idea of what's going to happen in DoA and win. They still have to learn the mobs, they still have to aggro responsibly, they still have to apply team tactics, they're just doing it with UB because managing 2 skills is a lot easier than managing 6. It may be a simpler method but none of you can make me believe it's a "you win" button, simply because it's not true.

If I am on a team that knows a specific area, has skills that counter or overpower the skills of the enemy of that area, and plays well as a team, we're going to win. It doesn't matter if we are using UB or not. UB teams can fail, UB teams DO fail, so where's this auto win feature? There is none, except teamwork. If we know the area, and can counter the mobs, manage aggro and coordinate our targets, we will win. You work well with the team, you're rewarded with success, UB or no UB.

clear DOA.
managing 2 skills.

=/= You win ?

oh. sorry.

trobinson97 · Nov 30, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

clear DOA.
managing 2 skills.

=/= You win ?

oh. sorry.

No need to apologize, everyone is wrong at some point, you're only human. If I could clear DoA with UB myself, yeah, that's a "you win". If I could go with a team that had no clue in hell what to do, or how to manage aggro, or how to focus on targets, and is running around with no clear focus and still win in convincing fashion then yeah that's a "you win". You're oversimplifying because you're desperate and you have nothing else. You're not just managing two skills, you're managing two skills while working in the framework of a team. You're managing two skills because it's a lot easier to manage 2 within a team than to manage 6, but you still have to play smart and as a team. You absolutely will not win just because UB is on your bar.

payne · Nov 30, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

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Originally Posted by Alex the Great

well, i've done uw, FoW, most of DoA, and SF without ursan.

i still need an explination why someone would WANT to play a build so boring

you could not be more right! its boring and all these "elite" areas are pefectly and mostly easily manageable without them...SF doesn't massively count as an "elite" or anywere close to an "elite" area but people still resign to use UB because they want the monument...that is one thing that has majorly increased the usage of UB - the HoM - people use UB just so they can show of saying "look I have the DoA monument" - boohoo I've got it without UB!
HoM the elite area monuments really promote the use of UB just so people can show off how "1337" they are?

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Originally Posted by plasmasword

let me guess...you got legendary vanquisher without using ursan and your crying about it because you other ppl got it way easier then you?

nop only cantha / elona vanquisher atm...I'm not moaning because people have a faster method...it does just discredit some credibility of the title IMO and that of quite a few other people!

this thread was not designed for people to argue over trivial matters like UB only allows bad players to beat high end areas...ran with to people the other day for bastion HM i believe it was with IVI they both ran UB just to speed up the mission and help me get sooooo much closer to elona guardian (18/20 to be precise)

UB is massively over-powered is and most likely will be as A.NET are not going to make any massive alterations to the game except buffs/nerfs because of the prominent release of GW2...I won't be playing it as I have a life and decided on quitting a while ago..will most likely carry on with GW1 if anything if I am close to maxing out a title and just want to finish it before I perma. quit!

I D E L E T E D I · Nov 30, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

O and by the way you can add me to your friends list if you ever want someone else to play with that doesn't want to play with UB!

just thought it may cheer you up that extra bit ^^

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off topic: (form are own guild if you like the pair of us and your mates and mine?) idea aent it? what do you think? - or join the guild me and my mate started - get new alliance and never use UB?

You already are on my friends list ^^ I am Legendary Deleter btw. Currently not been playing much HM because i ahve exams and then i have to fly home and visit parents for Xmas. But the idea of a non UB guild OMFG that is just a godly idea xD
If i am on ill PM you tonight or so.

payne · Nov 30, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

You already are on my friends list ^^ I am Legendary Deleter btw. Currently not been playing much HM because i ahve exams and then i have to fly home and visit parents for Xmas. But the idea of a non UB guild OMFG that is just a godly idea xD
If i am on ill PM you tonight or so.

I know I've ran with you before but really could not remember your name xD
could start properly running a guild if you like only me and my mate atm...sort out new alliance.(or just start a new Guild from scratch...got few GH upgrades yar-de-yar...once exams are over more then up for some HM...

on-topic - anymore views on UB? or should this post be closed? LOl

DivineEnvoy · Nov 30, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

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