Curse

I D E L E T E D I · Nov 29, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

UB is a good skil IMO, but the community is totally abusing it. A slight nerf would not harm this skill. Or maybe even a restriction like say only 2 people with UB are allowed in one party.

Picture this: Your a monk and ask your Alliance if anyone needs lets say Great Northern Wall on HM. 3 monks say hey i need that. So you could all go smite but we all know smite aint the greatest attribute line. So then 1 goes UB the other one Air of Enchant AoE smite and the third goes signet smite with you going as standard heal/prot monk. Here UB is used in a balanced build with the UB holding Aggro and the others doing there job.

But all these groups asking for 6 UB in the PuG section is just lame. It does take no skill to mash 111111121111111211111112. So i really hope anet would restrict the amount of UB in a party to bring back the balanced aspect of the game.

And speaking of balance TNTF+SY needs a bloody nerf too its way overpowered and anyone who has played in a party with this build knows its no better than a party full of UBs. And people who bring up the excuse of "its only one lame build in a party of 8" well the bloody paragon gives Party Wide buffs.

Well thats my 0.02cents on this matter

unienaule · Nov 29, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by YornStar

Gaile recently said that there would be no nerfs to UB.

Where did she say that?

payne · Nov 29, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

The points given here are that Ursanway is denying alot of players the full benefit of GW.....playing a mesmer, ranger, ect. with those class specific skills.
(Hell, consumables literally make one invinsible!!)
I could really care less if anyone wants to use ursanway, I have a strong guild, and alot of willing, skilled players to go questing with.
(Before you say: "well, not everyone has a good guild, or alot of friends to play with."...think about how, just maybe, a 'good guild'..or friends to play with" respond when you only utilize one 'skill' on your bar. (UB)
They get no advantage to using their skill bars either..

there truely is so much truth to this...first off consumables make one almost invincible - never to fail a vanquish again!

players with rangers / mesmers etc. have a very specific role to play...any profession / experience of player can slap on say a scythe and mash the "1" key constantly regardless of profession as they gain immense benefits from UB

played with someone the other day was a monk...slapped with a sword and +15/-1 offhand and equipped with UB...just ran in and attacked...sure the point of a monk is not to kill the enemy unless smiter?

Killa Rapta · Nov 29, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Heres my thoughts on UB, I dont think it will be takin out or nerfed at all. Lots of people r gonna use it and there gonna get their legendary vanquisher and guardian. But when it comes down to it and u ask them how they did most of it u will kno if they used UB or not. So go out and use UB all tht u want. You will still suck though.

payne · Nov 29, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

UB is a good skil IMO, but the community is totally abusing it. A slight nerf would not harm this skill. Or maybe even a restriction like say only 2 people with UB are allowed in one party.

Picture this: Your a monk and ask your Alliance if anyone needs lets say Great Northern Wall on HM. 3 monks say hey i need that. So you could all go smite but we all know smite aint the greatest attribute line. So then 1 goes UB the other one Air of Enchant AoE smite and the third goes signet smite with you going as standard heal/prot monk. Here UB is used in a balanced build with the UB holding Aggro and the others doing there job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

UB is a good skil IMO, but the community is totally abusing it. A slight nerf would not harm this skill. Or maybe even a restriction like say only 2 people with UB are allowed in one party.

reduce the number in the party would really reduce the problem...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Picture this: Your a monk and ask your Alliance if anyone needs lets say Great Northern Wall on HM. 3 monks say hey i need that. So you could all go smite but we all know smite aint the greatest attribute line. So then 1 goes UB the other one Air of Enchant AoE smite and the third goes signet smite with you going as standard heal/prot monk. Here UB is used in a balanced build with the UB holding Aggro and the others doing there job.

that is fair enough though...it is balanced but as you say party of 8 with 6UB and 2 monk is ridiculous...limit the number in the party please!

balancing it out with over people is better as 4 monks...2 smite 1 prot/heal 1 UB tank is good as it helps a whole monk party do something...but 4UB monk doing the same mission demolishes it and makes the whole guardian track a bit futile IMO...same for consumables makes the vanquisher title slightly futile now as you cannot actually fail if you pack enough consumables regardless of skill!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killa Rapta

So go out and use UB all that u want. You will still suck though.

so true it really is...UB replaces the need for skill in the game all you need is a finger that doesn't get tired from mashing "1"

upier · Nov 29, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Basically Ursan promotes time over skill and needs to die. There's Nothing To Fear! and Seed of Life hardly carried players through difficult content as well as Ursan does and they were justly toned down.

But when did PvE ever promote skill over time?
Rewards in PvE are gained though:
1. time
2. luck
In PvE - it's not the road, but rather the goal that is important. Because only 7 other people can watch you take the road - whereas goals can be flashed around in every outpost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

there truely is so much truth to this...first off consumables make one almost invincible - never to fail a vanquish again!

players with rangers / mesmers etc. have a very specific role to play...any profession / experience of player can slap on say a scythe and mash the "1" key constantly regardless of profession as they gain immense benefits from UB

played with someone the other day was a monk...slapped with a sword and +15/-1 offhand and equipped with UB...just ran in and attacked...sure the point of a monk is not to kill the enemy unless smiter?

The point in PvE is whatever one makes it to be.
We were just taught to expect certain things.

Trub · Nov 29, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killa Rapta

Heres my thoughts on UB, I dont think it will be takin out or nerfed at all. Lots of people r gonna use it and there gonna get their legendary vanquisher and guardian. But when it comes down to it and u ask them how they did most of it u will kno if they used UB or not. So go out and use UB all tht u want. You will still suck though.

And that is sad really....because I truly believe that without ursanway..they may not suck at all...and actually have fun with people in the game.
Don't get me wrong...there were//are ALOT of super-builds out there..
*cough-spider-farmer*cough* But, once discovered as a money maker/generator...anet nerfed them for economy PVE balance.
*hugz the long dead troll-griffon farmers*

I pwnd U · Nov 29, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Almost is key, I died a couple of times even with the consumables up. Did they help? Heck ya they did, they helped defensively not so much offensively. UB is all about offense. It's basically another form of a spike. Everyone used to scream about how overpowered Ranger/Rainbow/FoC spikes were. Now everyone is screaming about UB builds.

Yes I do think UB is a cheap way to play the game BUT people like the easy way out, they prefer to put little effort forward to succeed. If they can take one skill and then just keep mashing 1 when locked onto an enemy, they would much rather do that then trying to set up a full team, especially with monks being hard to come by. And yes I am sounding contrardicting.

The point is you don't see those spikes anymore because they got either nerfed or people learned to counter them in PvP. Since UB is a PvE ONLY skill you won't see it in PvP. But yes it is overpowered, does it need to be nerfed? Not necessarily, there are still going to be those people that refuse to play it. That is their right and all the more power to them as I also do not run UB ever. But if a new player or someone who doesn't have the skill of other players wants to do a Elite zone and has UB then that should be fine. It is their choice. It is not really effecting the rest of us. If you don't like it don't play it, but don't take away new oppertunities for players who aren't as skilled.

Incandecree · Nov 29, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I have been in UB groups with 6 UB and 2 monks. Boring...

I happen to like groups that have 0-2 in the group. Makes for more creativity in the builds and also it happens to let those that do not have GW:EN (yes there are still people that don't have it) into the party.

Have I used UB? yep. do I use it all the time? not hardly. I do have rank 10 in Norn but I usually am monking.

Tyla · Nov 29, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

ursanway makes pugs work.
but outside of DoA,it's lame.

payne · Nov 29, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

UB with consumables = mass offense / defence = easy win lol!

it doesn't affect those who don't play it but you do see quite a few people achieving leg.vanq./guardian who you may actually know to not be skilled but have high norn rank...deminishes the effort I have put into getting Tyria/Elona guardian and cantha/elona vanquisher without UB / Consumables!

ok but powerstones do make it totally impossible for you to be kicked from a vanquish now-adays as you can instantly remove all DP and give yourself a morale boast...giving you a greater advantage then when you started fresh from the outpost without DP?

main reason I actually started this post was to get firstly peoples views on UB but also on the amount of people in the PUG / Grouping section saying vanquishing (only ursanway) or FoW clearout (ursanway)!

I used to browse that forum regularily to see if anyone needed help with a mission or someon...now if I appoach someone regardless of how skilled I am they say "do you have UB and high norn rank"? I say "no" they say "then I don't want to run with you rather get a team of UB...removes the point of skilled PUG'ing as guilds / alliance are not proper PUG's rather people you know...if the whole PUG'ing section is going to turn into a pure UB elite area section it segments all the players who do not wish to grind up the norn title from those who just do it for an easy run!

norn reputation farmers do not help the cause!

(I do understand the usefulness of UB had myself a guildy and 2 people from my old alliance the alliance people ran UB while my guildy friend was a "sin" with KD's..I ran BHA interupt as usual...this was bastion HM - renowned for causing annoyance to players especially in HM - we absolutely breezed through it with masters no effort required...the UB people just killed everything while my mate chipped in best he could and I stood back killing the mobs that went past the main party!

UB out of PvP? same reason PI and sunspear rebirth signet aren't

Abedeus · Nov 29, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I have two things to say for UB:
a) Thanks for making HM EotN Missions, dungeons and general stuff easy.
b) I hope you die soon for making my Ranger and Elementalist unwanted in DoA.

Balanced in DoA died, in I can go without UB only with guild, even in alliance channel they always ask for either monks or UB players... It's just plain stupid -.-

This elite NEEDS a balance. Good idea is lowering UB in team to 2. PvE community overuses it and it should be fixed...

Fried Tech · Nov 29, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

just recently I have been browsing the PUG / grouping forum and seen so many posts with people saying Tyria / Cantha / Elona / FoW / UW / etc. ursan-clearout...wth?

ursan is seriously over-powered and any idiot can use it if they have high enough norn title! just derives the point of HM really? ursan-way does need a nerf and PUGs should go back to just using their skill not the exact same skill bar for the whole team because it cannot be varied...

just annoying really as people get leg.vanquisher yar-de-yar through pure over-powered ursan-way were people like me (<<<) have never used it and have cantha / elona vanquisher titles through skill not rallying behind ursan-way with a scythe for overpowered damage... etc.

not a flame just my view...thoughts would be awesome...IMO it should not have added to the game seeming as DoA and so on used to be a reasonable way to kill a few hours - ursan-way clearout of some areas 40mins tops...mallyx 15mins like wth? used to be 25mins through players using skill and sometimes going away from the cookie-cutter builds and doing something original?
ursan-way appears to be the new cookie-cutter for almost all areas NM or HM?

thoughts please?

DO NOT FLAME MY VIEWS PLEASE THEY ARE MINE...I WANT YOURS not people saying "o u nub wtf u on bout ursan is awesome"

My thoughts:
1. that was a flame on ursan
2. if you dont like it dont use it
3. ursan will die down over time its like a new toy
4. ursan makes it so the cookie cutter builds in DoA, Slavers, etc. are irrelivant
5. as much as you say it is overpowered. the fact is that you can do more damage and make your way though areas faster if you are good and have good builds.
6. PUGs will use ursan. NOT veterans with guild groups and such
7. The only people i have seen complaining about ursan are the ones with some ego issues, who for whatever reason dont feel SPECIAL anymore because their cookie builds are not the only thing that works anymore
8. its not going anywhere. deal with it or leave

Kusandaa · Nov 29, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Eh, I've used UB 3 times. All PUGs. Let's see results:

- UW Clearing: 2 hours 25 minutes to clear. Partial wipes every now and then.
- Stygian Veil: 35 or so minutes in, full wipe. Too much people leeroying around, not following instructions, arguments over chests...
- Thommis/Rand Slavers' area: 44 minutes to clear. Partial wipes due to leeroying, disconnects, unable to follow instructions.

UB in itself does not requires skill, I'll agree. Mash buttons. However, the fact PUGs are complete idiots in general, think they are invincible in UB thus don't see the point in:
a) preventing the foes to reach backline/non-UB users
b) attacking the "right" foes, depending of the area
c) wait to be told when to take quests.

So UB still can fail. Depends of the people using it. I prefer running my own builds instead of having sets skills, I enjoy challenges and some stuff is easy enough already (Slavers' Thommis/Rand area wasn't hard really... pull mobs, target the right foes, and the mob goes down easily). But when I feel like leeryoing around, there's UB; all I need is a group that knows how to use it effectively.

For the record, I had done Slavers' before, done DoA before and attempted to UW clears a few times. I still intend to beat it the regular way.

payne · Nov 29, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

My thoughts:
1. that was a flame on ursan
2. if you dont like it dont use it
3. ursan will die down over time
4. ursan makes it so the cookie cutter builds in DoA, Slavers, etc. are irrelivant
5. as much as you say it is overpowered. the fact is that you can do more damage and make your way though areas faster if you are good and have good builds.
6. PUGs will use ursan. NOT veterans with guild groups and such
7. The only people i have seen complaining about ursan are the ones with some ego issues, who for whatever reason dont feel SPECIAL anymore because their cookie builds are not the only thing that works anymore
8. its not going anywhere. deal with it or leave

lol I am a ranger so don't massively fit in with the major cookie-cutter builds as far as PUG'ing seems to be concerned for me when finding groups without my guild or heroes!
people with ego problems...hmm....SMS members are very skilled as lots of people know yet they have ego issues because they dislike UB? explain?

PUG'ing is fun sometimes..it gives you some human company if guildies are not free and you do not wish to run with heroes...UB PUG's just give people an over-powered advantage that a single profession cannot really match?

going to be leaving when GW2 comes out anyway my only hope for those who do carry on to play it is that UB is not added to it!

--------------------------------

I have also beaten UW / FOW / DoA the old fashioned way - granted with heroes but they do not match the over-power of the UB...of course UB can still fail otherwise we would be landed with something invincible that everyone would use for quick and simple results - as many do atm!

Have not done slayers just because I have not got around to beating GW:EN yet I am aiming to finish up my leg.guardian / vanq. titles before GW2 so GW:EN and UB/norn rank take a back-seat view to me!

I D E L E T E D I · Nov 29, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

My thoughts:
1. that was a flame on ursan
2. if you dont like it dont use it
3. ursan will die down over time
4. ursan makes it so the cookie cutter builds in DoA, Slavers, etc. are irrelivant
5. as much as you say it is overpowered. the fact is that you can do more damage and make your way though areas faster if you are good and have good builds.
6. PUGs will use ursan. NOT veterans with guild groups and such
7. The only people i have seen complaining about ursan are the ones with some ego issues, who for whatever reason dont feel SPECIAL anymore because their cookie builds are not the only thing that works anymore
8. its not going anywhere. deal with it or leave

you sir have no idea what payne is talking about. First off he doesnt have any ego issues. i have played with him quite a few times while going for my Legendary Guardian.
2. yup you dont have to use it but if the whole team you are in wants to use it what can u you do? Hero/Hench it? Thats just lame.
4. UB is the new cookie cutter build for all Elite missions. If you dont have it your not welcome. How is that any different from how it was pre-UB?

What payne was referring too was that all pugs will run UB for elite missions and HM. And for a person who is willing to help out people on their HM missions and vanguishes that is a real let down.
For a short time i was in the same alliance as payne,(which was basically a large PuG alliance) and all they ever ran was UB, UB and UB. That even makes alliance teams real lame. And yeah telling people to go with friends/guilds aint real helpful either. Since good players are hard to come by in this game

I pwnd U · Nov 29, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

lol I am a ranger so don't massively fit in with the major cookie-cutter builds as far as PUG'ing seems to be concerned for me when finding groups without my guild or heroes!
people with ego problems...hmm....SMS members are very skilled as lots of people know yet they have ego issues because they dislike UB? explain?

PUG'ing is fun sometimes..it gives you some human company if guildies are not free and you do not wish to run with heroes...UB PUG's just give people an over-powered advantage that a single profession cannot really match?

going to be leaving when GW2 comes out anyway my only hope for those who do carry on to play it is that UB is not added to it!

Because when people are good at the game, sometimes they have a big ego that they let take over. It's because SMS has players that are pretty darn good that they have ego problems. Many of the players are egotistical but they are normally some of the best players I have played with or seen in PvE. Thus the ego. People with UB feel good when they beat zones like DoA and the Deep. So they think they are good at the game, so then they get a huge ego and say they are awesome even though they only us UB.

I D E L E T E D I · Nov 29, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

On the topic of SMS, i agree they are very skilled players. But them trashing UB the way they do, and then use one of the most imba builds in PvE history is just hilarious to say the least. For the record TNTF+SY Paragon = UB.

Alexandra-Sweet · Nov 29, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Just because you want to do it the hard way doesn't mean you have to spoil it for everyone else.

Sometimes you just have to learn to live with things, like Arena Net.

silara_jorinset · Nov 29, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

YOU dont have to use ursan, its not pwning you in ha, so why do you care?

Because at current trend it'll get to the point when for ANY HM or Elite area people will require you to take UB. Just look at DoA now, good luck finding a non-ursan group there (apart from farmers).
Theres a large GWO thread on this atm like there was here a while ago.