Curse

-Sonata- · Mar 24, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Interesting post!

I would say everyone has their own definition what a casual player is. I know I consider myself one. I don't put 8 hours a day into guildwars, nor do I know every last tidbit of information on the game. Others, though, might say I'm not a casual player because I spend time farming, I have some max titles, and other characteristics that wouldn't fit into someone elses definition.

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But what about Luxon/Kurzick Reputation? Sunspear Points? Lightbringer Points? What about EoTN titles?

Grind, I also believe, is subjective. My definintion of Grind is something you must do to advance. Aside from reaching a certain rank in SS and the 10K lux/Kurz for primary quests, which can be easily obtained by doing all the side quests and taking bounties, the rest isn't a must. Sure, the higher the better, but having rank 3 LB vs Rank 6 LB isn't going to stop you, or prevent you, from accomplishing tasks.

EoTN, that's a little more subjective. I will agree, having R5 in a content area that is much smaller than Nightfall, to gain access to armor and consumables is a tad bit high. I didn't have much choice but to grind a new book to achieve a second R5 for Norn. It's been the only time I've run into a must grind. I hope at some point Anet makes the decision to lower those rank requirements.

Other thn that, Max SS, Max LB, Max kurz/lux, Max EoTN; These aren't necessary to advance. They are optional. I've made it to R9 in SS just by questing and some Hard Mode quests with guildies. I have no desire, nor need, to max it and I probably never will.

Take that as opposed to a game like Flyff (if you've played it you'll know and it's just the easiest game I can think of) where the game is nothing but grind. Where if you need x-skill, you must grind to x-level. Where the only way to advance in power, or equipment, or weapons, or a rare new quest, you must grind to x-level.

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Casual Gaming. What is it? And especially in Guild Wars?

I would say it's whatever each player makes it. For me, Guild Wars works for many types of gamers, casual and not. I can pick up the game for an hour in a morning, do a bit of work on a quest, try for a masters in a mission, do a farm run, or two, and then head off to work knowing I've gotten something done.

To use Flyff again as an example, in an hour, I can't get much done, if anything at all, except for an hour of repeated killing for maybe 8% on a level at higher levels.

But to players who do want to spend long hours beating away at something for a title, or "level" (in subjective term), the option is there with maxing titles.

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PVP - Anything beyond RA/TA and AB, I would consider beyond the realm of a casual player.

I completely agree, but I would add that it's also not in the realm of being impossible for casual players and casual PvP'ers (Like myself who usually only PVP's once, or twice a week). A little bit of planning ahead for a future date with people you know can work.

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DoA/UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep

Again I agree with what you posted. This also might be a good arguement FOR 7 heroes, but that's beside the point. I have chipped away at DoA, but not in awhile. Like you I'm a busy person! But also I have other things in game I prefer to work on. I do, however, wish I could afford more time in these areas.

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Hardmodes

Agree again! But, I myself do tackle Hard Mode missions on my lunch break quite often. Vanquishing I truly don't care for. It's just not something I'm concerned about. I'm more in love with trying for Guardian. Yes they're far more time consuming, but I guess I'm a challenge junkie. It provides a challenge to me, much like a NM elite area, but without the long term planning stages because I can add my heroes, or go with a partner with heroes, and just go at it. Success, or not, afterwards it's back to work...or bed if it's a night!

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If you can sit there and C-space for 30 minutes and beat it, thats pretty casual isn't it?

VS

Keeping your eyes open, paying attention to 10 things and watching the timing of your skills and player position so you don't wipe and waste 2 hours of gameplay.

I still do both (not the c-space thing! I mean just a quick 30 minute seesion)

I can be a perfectionist and I don't enjoy the c-space game at all. I guess that's why I find Ursan completely boring and why I'm constantly developing builds. I'm a believer that as much as your bar has to do with success and failure, so does timing, positioning, approach, and your battle field itself. I openly admit, I take great care and practice often in being in the proper positions, practicing my timing, and taking notice of focus points in the mids of chaos.

Sure, failures after long periods of time are a part of life, but that's how we learn. I've never been one to get pissed over losing at something. I laugh it off, replay what happened in my head, and adjust.

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Now take that, and look towards the future. What kind of gaming do you want from GW2? How does current changes make you feel like Ursan? Or possibilities of 7 heroes? What changes to the game's design and dynamics do you agree/disagree with?

Because none of us really know what to expect in GW2, as nothing truly concrete has been said yet (hopefully soon though!) I, for one, don't have much of a comment except for one thing.

I do like being in open worlds with other players, but I also enjoy the freedom of being in my own map. My own map provides me with peace of mind when I'm sometimes AFK for phone calls, or distractions during the day. It also prevents the common spawn campers from taking advantage of other players.

If there is one thing I hope that comes with GW2 is the option to choose both of those. I can say, without doubt, I would play equally in both. That if I have a quest I want to do without interference, I can choose my own map. Yet, if I want to venture out and explore, meet and greet, discover and adventure with random people, I can do that in a world shared with many.

Rocky Raccoon · Mar 24, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Casual gaming is when I can lounge around in my underwear and play.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I play for fun.

It's good to know I am not the only one who plays in their underwear.

mazey vorstagg · Mar 24, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

There's been a lot of this discussion on the WoW forums recently and the general consensus there is "a casual player is a player that cannot dedicate long periods of time to playing the game".

I myself think this is a really good definition. I'm casual (on a normal day I can only play in 40min sessions) but I play HM, have chipped away at DoA, done slavers by leaving myself afk when I had to do other things. Although on a normal day I play about 2 hours, this is spread over a 5-6 hour time span. So a low level of play =/= casual.

A hard-core player is someone who can say for sure "ok, DoA tonight, I'll be there for all 4 hours of it". I'd say most HC players play HM, but then, I had a friend who played for 5 hours a day, never did HM, just c-spaced through old zones. He couldn't react fast enough for HM.

So, imo, I've got KoaBD and 10 lvl 20 chars with 15k armor but I only play in 30min stretches, however it adds up over time. I'd say I'm casual.
Whereas a hard core player might have only 1 character but they play for 3-6 hours a day and in 2-3 hours goes.

Captain Miken · Mar 24, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

i'm a casual gamer with 10 minutes a day if gw is lucky~

Dallcingi · Mar 24, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Casual gaming is anything but high end gvg =p

Savio · Mar 24, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I think the difference between casual and non-casual players isn't necessarily in the hours but in how serious they take the game. I wouldn't consider most of you casual simply because you're here on the forums.

Malice Black · Mar 24, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

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Originally Posted by Dallcingi

Casual gaming is anything but high end gvg =p

Because GW PvP is hard, right?

EVE's PvP is challenging, GW PvP is not.

Evaine · Mar 24, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

A casual game is anything you can pick up and play pretty fast without having to memorize a whole instruction manual or keep notes about progress and strategies. Casual games are good for people who don’t have a lot of time for gaming. Games you can play on your cell phone or iPod. Instant gratification.

C-space playing for 30 minutes and beating something is OK once in awhile, otherwise it’s just boring. Having to grind for rank in titles linked to skills is in this category.

I’m not a casual gamer. I want a game that’s going to be a challenge and that’s going to take awhile to finish. That to me is fun, not something that I spent money on and then finished in less than two hours.

It’s like books, I guess. If I have a choice between two books in a genre I enjoy - one with 150 pages and large print or one that has 600 pages with normal print - I’m more than likely going to go for the big book because I like a good read that’s going to take awhile to finish. On the other hand, Harlequin makes a ton of money selling short romance stories.

Edge Martinez · Mar 24, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

It's good to know I am not the only one who plays in their underwear.

Word. I'm guilty. A-Net should give us gold trim around our toon's undies.

Coraline Jones · Mar 24, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I've been doing a lot of game research, so that's something that I understand pretty well.

If you're looking for a textbook-type definition for casual gaming, then it's pretty much any game that anybody of any skill level can pick up and understand very quickly. The emphasis tends to be more about fun than button mashing. The games are broken up into short segments, often 30 minutes or less for a round, and there's frequent opportunity to save your progress. If you want an iconic casual game, then take a look at Nintendogs. There's a game in there, but it's not like it's really hard. It attracts millions of players nevertheless, including people that normally don't like the typical "video game".

Guild Wars is a semi-casual game. If you want a game that will get you to max level very quickly and you get to do major campaigns quickly, then Guild Wars will give you that. The antithesis of Guild Wars is pretty much all of the other Korean-based MMORPGs, which are all centered around getting to some character level as a primary goal. You don't have to do a lot to get to max level, max armor, or max damage weapons in Guild Wars.

However, this is a double-edged sword. Because you reach max level quickly, and it's not that hard to just beat the regular campaign (i.e., just finish the game--no bonuses, Master Reward, etc), gamers feel like there's a not a lot to do after you beat the game. As a result, despite that GW was never supposed to be about grind, the whole game has shifted toward a huge amount of it as a side effect, where people are now just farming for rare weapon skins, fancy armor, or maxed Titles. At least, that's for the PvE portion. I have my opinions about PvP, but I don't play it enough to give an accurate depiction.

Turbobusa · Mar 24, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

To me:

When I used to be a hardcore GW player, I played because... I wanted something IG, some object, some title.

Now I play to have fun with builds and experiencing things. I play casually.

[DE] · Mar 24, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Because GW PvP is hard, right?

EVE's PvP is challenging, GW PvP is not.

Oh right. We all forgot you've played Guild Wars PvP at it's highest level. Sorry.

All of PvE is casual play now with Ursan. The elite areas can now be cleared with ease by casual players. No comment on whether that's a good or bad thing.

Crom The Pale · Mar 24, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

PvE is casual, it used to be that it was divided between the Elite zones(non-casual) and the rest of PvE(mission/quests). Now it is all casual.

PvP still has a divide between casual and hard core if I may use the term.

Alliance Battles/Random Arena are both for the casual PvP player.

Team Arena/Hero's Ascent is for those sitting just below hard core and above casual.

GvG is mostly for hard core PvP players.

All this being said people from one catagory can easily move to another for a short period of time then return to thier normal playing patterns.

Balan Makki · Mar 24, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

I'd suspect GW2 will be a lot more of both -- Casual and Hardcore. Allowing casual players access to elite areas with some form of "save game" camping, bivouacking when logging off, mid instance.

Arena Net is by far the king of MMO casual gaming, though I'm expecting some pretty deep stuff for Hardcore in GW2.

Trub · Mar 25, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Casual gaming is when I can lounge around in my underwear and play.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I play for fun.

/Agreed

Glad you aren't commando....

Terraban · Mar 25, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I always play in my underwear...it helps me focus.

Nemo the Capitalist · Mar 25, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I'm casual, because I say so. I post far more then I play.

On a busy GW week for me I might net 10-15 hours. You have some no lifers on here that play that much in a day/

\

thats malice for u xD

cellardweller · Mar 25, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

If you play while the game is fun and put it down when its not, you're playing casually. The hardcore player is the one that will play regardless of the fact that they've stopped having fun because of the drive to see numbers go up.

You can be a casual player and complete HM, you can be a casual player and complete Elite missions. Heck you can be a casual player and probably go as far a "i have many leather bound books" on the title scale by completing all the fun "gameplay" titles like guardian, vanker, skill hunter and whatnot. If you're grinding out LB titles with endless worms runs or zoning for hours on end for drunkard - then you've slipped into the world of hardcore players.

A casual friendly game is one that that does not penalise gamers for playing casually - Pre-nightfall GW would be the shining example of this in the MMO world. The modern version of the game can no longer hold on to that mantle as the hardcore gamer is going to trounce the casual gamer every time. Take doa for an example - a reasonably competent hardcore player will complete it in around 2 hrs, whereas a casual gamer would be looking at 6-8 hours for the same task.

Fril Estelin · Mar 28, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

This topic of casual-ness of MMO players will be addressed in a lecture at the Indie MMO Game Developers Conference:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/03/prweb803694.htm

An interesting read also:
http://www.massively.com/2008/03/07/...-old-argument/

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As I see it, Casual and Hardcore are both a state of mind, and depend very much on how you approach the game. I would argue that it's your play style, your approach to the game, and not your play time, that makes you Casual or Hardcore.
...
To use a cheesy example – a Casual player will get more enjoyment out of the journey, while a Hardcore player will get more enjoyment out of the destination. The achievement of a goal is the reward the Hardcore player seeks/craves, while the Casual player gleans his or her reward from the process of achieving the goal.

A Hardcore player might take his or her enjoyment from the fact that their playstyle makes the game 'harder' than the Casual player – by setting themselves goals that others might find punishing, they gain bragging rights – the simple knowledge they levelled up twice or three times as fast as anyone else or that they've taken down every boss in the game. A Casual player is simply happy so long as they're enjoying whatever it is they're doing when they log on, regardless of what it is, how long they spend doing it and (within reason), regardless of their success or failure.

wanmoke · Mar 28, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Throwing out my opinion with only having read the OP.

Casual gaming to me is being able to relax and have fun while playing the game. If I'm not having fun, it's not casual, and it feels more like work. It doesn't matter to me if I have 10 minutes to play or an entire day. The point of it is to take my mind off my real world problems for awhile. That's casual gaming to me.