Curse

JeniM · Apr 04, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

More people that voted want ****ing delicious cake than LS!

Cab Tastic · Apr 04, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Interesting thread this.

One because it shows the depth of feeling against loot scaling and also the fact that a lot of common misconceptions have been debunked.

i.e. it causes inflation etc.

One question I would like to ask the people who are for LS is this. How do you think it would effect you if LS was removed?

The Meth · Apr 05, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

You realise that the cost of many materials has gone up since the loot nerf?

Pre loot nerf = deflation
post loot nerf = inflation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

People who play in normal size parties, including parties of heroes and henchman, will see no difference at all from loot scaling.

'Lootscaling' has absolutely no effect on the drops of anyone who isn't farming. I will say that the drop rate of items has gone down (I used to fill inventory doing most missions, now i get maybe 1/2 or 1/4th full) but thats not lootscaling, thats just the drop rate being nerfed.

Lootscaling hurts farmers, and doesn't do anything for normal players. Normal players therefore have a relatively higher purchasing power. Besides, the only time lootscaling is applied is for gold, crap whites, and common materials. Its essentially an inflation-protector.

For the economy its better that players farm rare items or materials (who's real-world equivilent would be a useful product) rather then farming gold (who's real-world equivilent would be everyone having a printing press of money in their basement)

Tyla · Apr 05, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Wow, Meth, and I thought it was loot scaling! I guess my lucks just rotten...

Master Knightfall · Apr 05, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

One question I would like to ask the people who are for LS is this. How do you think it would effect you if LS was removed?

Because it would open the door on drops to an insurmountable level and thus just bring prices DOWN even futher than it already is with just hard mode drops. Loot scaling is GREAT for the economy as at least it will keep prices up there for the goods that I do sell from time to time. I want casual players to continue to get meager drops and still have to rely on me and others like me for the really quality skins in the game. Take away that and you have taken away the majority of what the economy is built upon in the first place..supply and demand. Loot scaling keeps supply down and demand up as it should be. <grin>

Quote:

Besides, the only time lootscaling is applied is for gold, crap whites, and common materials.

Another that doesn't know what he's talking about. Lootscaling applies to blues and purples as well as gold, crap whites and common materials.

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Because it would open the door on drops to an insurmountable level and thus just bring prices DOWN even futher than it already is with just hard mode drops. Loot scaling is GREAT for the economy as at least it will keep prices up there for the goods that I do sell from time to time. I want casual players to continue to get meager drops and still have to rely on me and others like me for the really quality skins in the game. Take away that and you have taken away the majority of what the economy is built upon in the first place..supply and demand. Loot scaling keeps supply down and demand up as it should be. <grin>

/point
/laugh
It will make that those that farm get more money that those that not.
Just that. Nothing else.

Farming is NOT the way to get money, and removing lootscaling would force farming to be the only way to get money to match other players.

Loot scalling has nothing to do with supply and demand. Rare items keeps dropping, loot scalling just removes part of the merchant fodder between rare drops.

Fay Vert · Apr 05, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

All this conjecture about what would happen to the game if the loot nerf is removed. lol.

We KNOW what would happen, the game would go back to being great again, just like it was before, only now we wont have the bots and rmt traders that ANet never used to do anythign about so it would be better!

ANet, please stop making this game suck, bring the fun back, bring the diversity of gameplay back, stop forcing people to play in a very narrow prescriptive way that stifles everything that was great in GW.

Master Knightfall · Apr 05, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

/point
/laugh
It will make that those that farm get more money that those that not.
Just that. Nothing else.

Farming is NOT the way to get money, and removing lootscaling would force farming to be the only way to get money to match other players.

Loot scalling has nothing to do with supply and demand. Rare items keeps dropping, loot scalling just removes part of the merchant fodder between rare drops.

Wrong again /point at /laughs at

Loot scaling keeps solo farmers loot down. Loot scaling also makes playing in normal mode a very low drop rate solo or otherwise. Play solo in normal mode as opposed to Hard Mode. They both have loot scaling. Loot scaling was also designed to make it fairer for those that play in full groups to get a decent amount of drops as opposed to the solo farmer in either normal mode or hard mode. Hard mode just gives more of everything, but, loot scaling is still present in both in the amount of drops dependent on time and size of group. Thus loot scaling keeps the number of drops DOWN on ALL accounts and that is my point and why it should REMAIN so. More DEMAND and LESS SUPPLY means more money for ME. <grin>

Quote:

Farming is NOT the way to get money

And this quote just made you the dumbest person I ever met on a forum or anywhere else
/points at /laughs at /shakes head at /laughs at some more

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Tsk... diversitity, great...
You just don't know what you say.

The game is fun when you PLAY it, not when you just kill again and again the very same mob of monsters.

If you play the game normally, in normal parties, with... well... with not normal people. You'll get fun.

If you idea of fun is killing a group again and again and then sell everything you get to the merchant, untill you fill the Storage with gold, then, there's something wrong with you getting GW, because you missed the point and got the wrong game to play.

Phineas · Apr 05, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

People may not decide what is or is not fun for other people. If they paid for GW then they are entitled to play it in whatever way they choose (within the scope of the EULA). I used to love farming solo for the thrill of defeating a large mob single-handed and standing in a pile of loot. That, to me, was fun. Don't forget that a farmer does not necessarily repeat the same area incessantly. I used to run a certain map maybe 4 or 5 times, get bored of it (cos we farmers are not bots, just humans with limited patience) and then go some place else and do a different run, using another skill bar.

And surely a farmer's quest to fill his storage plat to max is nothing more or less than any other title grinder?

DivineEnvoy · Apr 05, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Just to summarize the last 50 pages or so, we'll have the following statement:

There exists people who want to earn their ingame wealth through solo farms, and they want these type of farming to be profitable enough to support their expenses.

Then there are hundreds of reasons to support this argument, from the game of being fun to experimental hypothesis of how there are more effects to loot scaling.

Just to clarify the situation and the given statement, there are still many ways to produce a good amount of income to balance out with one's expenses. This implies that even though there are enough gold out there for people to earn it, these people will not be satisifed, because they did not earn it through solo farms.

We also need to note that Anet intends the game to be played with a full party. There are players who wish the game to be played with merely solo, so it is more or less a player versus developer case we have here. Good luck to you anti-loot scaling people; I bet you'll need it.

HawkofStorms · Apr 05, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

The cost of many materials have gone up because of consumables (a huge money and material sink).

It has NOTHING to do with loot scaling (if it did, then stuff NOT used in popular consumables like wood would also increase in value). Instead, only stuff used in consumable crafting is expensive (dust, feathers, iron, etc).

Fril Estelin · Apr 05, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Just to clarify the situation and the given statement, there are still many ways to produce a good amount of income to balance out with one's expenses. This implies that even though there are enough gold out there for people to earn it, these people will not be satisifed, because they did not earn it through solo farms.

I left the discussion around page 20 IIRC, but I want to emphasize as much as possible the point you mention above:

there's very, very clearly enough to buy a lot (not everything) of stuff; I've started farming occasionally a little while ago (due to the difficulty to get anything long done, because of family life) and I'm amazed at the quantity of money I'm earning from meaching IDed stuff and just a little bit of selling in-game and via GWGauction. I'm almost to the point where I can buy an elite armor set every 10 days, and I'm playing very casual (cleared a few RoT quests last week).

I initially thought that removing LS could benefit casual and "easy" (but not lazy) players, but I changed my mind and this confirms it. Apart from changing the scale of farming benefits (but not necessarily of the buying power of the farmer, since it's pretty much unknown how the market would react to removing LS), I'm not sure it'd help casual player or make the game (via its economy) any better.

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

It's just that. Some people is used to farming, and can't understand how does things really work in GW.

They can't break with the statement:
- I need money -> I go farm.

Fril Estelin · Apr 05, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

- I need money -> I go farm.

Well, to be completely honest, you don't NEED money because you don't really need these items (well, I needed one insigniable armor set in addition to my flameforged and basic Tyrian, but the next one is purely for the aesthetics and the HoM). I'm also going for d-cores and glacial stones, but slowly without any kind of excessive rush, and this gives you ample money, unless you're after a mini panda or polar bear or a third set of FoW armor!

As many have said before in this thread, this is no longer a need, this is more like envy. I guess it's not fun in the long fun, but I still have to go guardian and vanquish for that.

Master Knightfall · Apr 05, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Tsk... diversitity, great...
You just don't know what you say.

The game is fun when you PLAY it, not when you just kill again and again the very same mob of monsters.

If you play the game normally, in normal parties, with... well... with not normal people. You'll get fun.

If you idea of fun is killing a group again and again and then sell everything you get to the merchant, untill you fill the Storage with gold, then, there's something wrong with you getting GW, because you missed the point and got the wrong game to play.

LOL says YOU, everyone doesn't play the carebear game like you and others do. There are many ways to have FUN in this game for EACH INDIVIDUAL person. Wow what an igmo. Someone that actually thinks if you don't play the game like they do then they are not having fun. hahaha That's even dumber than your other comments earlier hahahah roflmao.

Quote:

People may not decide what is or is not fun for other people. If they paid for GW then they are entitled to play it in whatever way they choose (within the scope of the EULA). I used to love farming solo for the thrill of defeating a large mob single-handed and standing in a pile of loot. That, to me, was fun. Don't forget that a farmer does not necessarily repeat the same area incessantly. I used to run a certain map maybe 4 or 5 times, get bored of it (cos we farmers are not bots, just humans with limited patience) and then go some place else and do a different run, using another skill bar.

And surely a farmer's quest to fill his storage plat to max is nothing more or less than any other title grinder?

Excellent points Phineas exactly how I feel about it. Loot scaling hasn't hurt anyone it's just some don't like it cause they want MORE. They played too much Dialbo and Diablo 2 and hey you loot RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs if you really want a game that gives you more loot than you know what to do with go buy "Titans Quest", it's about $3.00 now at amazon. You will get all the loot you ever wanted to carry and store. <grin>

Creeping Carl · Apr 05, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

And still the greedy farmers still complaining about how they're not getting enough wealth. Go play the freaking game instead of being so concerned about making e-wealth. The game is doing just fine. You can still farm and make wealth and yet it doesnt force us casuals to farm.

Quit whining.

MithranArkanere · Apr 05, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Anyways, without LS farming is just like acting as a bot.
With it, you have to trade to get the 'extra' cash from farming.

Instead of whining about how 'hard' is to get wealth by farming, you should whine about how slow and anti-GW is to trade stuff without a trader and get wealth the way it's meant to be done.

I do so every single time I get a chance, XDD

Fay Vert · Apr 05, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Actually, the biggest whiners in this thread are very clearly the small minority of pro-loot nerf ANet fanboys. Shame the (larger) pro-cake loby isn't as vocal, it would be more interesting.

However, I don't like phrases such as whiner or fanboy, so how about we not do that, eh?

manitoba1073 · Apr 05, 2008, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Actually, the biggest whiners in this thread are very clearly the small minority of pre-loot nerf ANet fanboys. Shame the (larger) pro-cake loby isn't as vocal, it would be more interesting.

However, I don't like phrases such as whiner or fanboy, so how about we not do that, eh?

Oh come on Fay you know they cant. How else they gonna make there points seem artifically valid.