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View Poll Results: For those that feel the need to petition for everything.
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Yes, remove Loot Scaling. (Or /signed)
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566 |
68.19% |
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No, it's fine as it is. (Or /notsigned)
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106 |
12.77% |
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I have a slightly different view that I have expressed below in an elaborate manner.
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8 |
0.96% |
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Cake is ****ing delicious.
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150 |
18.07% |
Mar 27, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17
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#1041
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Guild: It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Hahaha, you're calling me stupid? None of your posts make any sense at all.
First you post in support of the removal of lootscaling, then you challenge me for saying I think you're opposed to lootscaling, and now you're posting in support of the removal of lootscaling again?
Flip
Flop
Flip
Flop
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First I post in support of the removal of lootscaling.
Then you, out of nowhere, think I'm opposed to the removal. Which I'm not. I am FOR it!
And then I post in the support of the removal again.
Read carefully next time.
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Mar 27, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21
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#1042
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Forge Runner
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sypherious
First I post in support of the removal of lootscaling.
Then you, out of nowhere, think I'm opposed to the removal. Which I'm not. I am FOR it!
And then I post in the support of the removal again.
Read carefully next time.
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Oh the irony. You're the one misreading things.
This is what I posted:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
You're opposed to lootscaling, yet you want to let people know why it isn't such a big deal anyway? That's a grand gesture, well done.
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As you can see, I said your were opposed to lootscaling. I never said you were opposed to the removal. I have no idea why you think I did. And it gets better.
Here you attack me for saying you oppose lootscaling. While you do actually oppose it. Duh.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sypherious
Who the hell are you to say that I'm opposed to lootscaling?
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Last edited by Gli; Mar 27, 2008 at 09:25 PM // 21:25..
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Mar 27, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31
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#1043
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
XDDDDD What a bad try! Seriously.
There was approaches to fix the system. One of them was the anti-farm code.
It was removed since LS was WAY better than it, and thus, replaced it.
Just remember that sometimes the solution for a problem, even know, can take a lot of time to be put in practice.
XDDDD Increase in price of weapons? XDDD No!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
or reduce the drop rates of most rare skins...
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If you reduce the drop rates of rare skins, their price will increase. You are contradicting yourself.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I'm saying that I do not want GOLD to decrease in price. So I won't need to farm to buy something from other player. If you make farming work again fully, like it worked before the antifarm code, you will end up with less people having more gold. Ad thus, the value of the gold decrease, because those with more gold 'decide' the prices, being able to acquire more than others.
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No. The one with more gold can only decide the price if he is the only one with access to the rare skins. Today, however, rare skins are dropping everywhere for everyone. Rich players can TRY to sell a Gothic Sword for 100K + ecto's, but everyone can just practically get them for free these days, so there is no need to give that much to a sword that everyone has and that drops everywhere. It's all about supply and demand. Hence weapons are worth nothing now even though stuff like Polar Bear is still 1000K+
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
You don't have to bother about it. Justs keep in mind the basics. Things like:
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
- Farming not required to get things.
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Farming is most definately required to get things in this game. The entire game is like one big goldsink. Except for the storyline, everything costs tons of money and without farming it's impossible to get it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
- Prices not decided by a minority of farmers.
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This was never the case. It was the buyers that made the prices get to 100K + ecto's. It was not hard at all to get req 8 Long Swords for 5K back then. It's too bad that most people were ignorant and asked other people for prices and/or checked price-check topics.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
- Parties of 8 people more effective to et wealth than solo players.
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I agree on this. However parties of 8 people are not effective to gain wealth at all. If they just left out Loot Scaling and increased drop rate in 8-man parties, it would be much better.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
- Rare items not affected.
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I agree on this one. If rare items were affected, Hardcore farmers would get even richer, increasing the gap between Hardcore and Casual.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
- PlayerToPlayer trades with reasonable prices.
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This has to do with Supply and Demand. In other words, if an item is farmed, it's price will decrease. In order to get a market with low prices, you have to make the item readily available. Like what happened to the Elemental Sword and Colossal Scimitar. I don't completely agree on this, however. The prices for these items shouldn't get too low, because if the market for them get's too full, it will become worthless and everyone will lose interest in the weapon, causing it to die out.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Increasing the value of identified items while reducing the values of non-identified ones would work WAY better for what you 'claim' to ask, instead removing LS.
But of course, that is not what you want.
Just removing LS means: Take those that do not farm out of the picture.
Nothing else.
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However, there is nobody that doesn't farm. If there is, that person should not expect to get any vanity. I agree that stuff like keys and 15K armour should be earned, but at least give people the choice to work towards these things.
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Mar 27, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37
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#1044
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Forge Runner
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Farming is most definately required to get things in this game. The entire game is like one big goldsink. Except for the storyline, everything costs tons of money and without farming it's impossible to get it.
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So eh... farm?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
If they just left out Loot Scaling and increased drop rate in 8-man parties, it would be much better.
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You know, if they did that, it be just like the regular old lootscaling we have now, except with more drops across the board for everyone. So you don't mind lootscaling at all, what you want is just more gold.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
However, there is nobody that doesn't farm. If there is, that person should not expect to get any vanity. I agree that stuff like keys and 15K armour should be earned, but at least give people the choice to work towards these things.
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That choice is there. Don't farm and make x gold, or farm and make upward of 2x gold.
Last edited by Gli; Mar 27, 2008 at 09:39 PM // 21:39..
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Mar 27, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38
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#1045
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Underworld Spelunker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo
Guild: Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]
Profession: E/
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XDDD Nobody that doesn't farm? Most my guildies and most people I know ingame do not farm in the way that caused the addition of the anti-farm code or the LS.
You CAN farm now, but you will just get mostly rare drops, and much less merchant fodder.
Just that. Anet do realized their mistake with the first shape of LS, and changed it quickly.
I do farm myself sometimes. Last week I farmed for eggs. and I got to Treasure Hunter rank 3 thanks to that. Why? Because even items are out of lootscaling.And I even got from 10% to 50% of the next wisdom rank (4) why? Because golds are out of lootscaling.
When I farm solo it's mostly for two things: XP for skills and gold for the Boardwalk. And I still can get 100k in three days under Lootscaling. Where's the problem then?
You can still farm. You will just get less cash if you plan to act as a bot, selling everything to the merchant. If I botherd to trade (And I will not uless something like a Xunlai Market were added) my 20k/hour when I farm would probably turn into a bit more.
And please, no more multiquote answers. They are annoying to respond.
Last edited by MithranArkanere; Mar 27, 2008 at 09:43 PM // 21:43..
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Mar 27, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46
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#1046
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
So eh... farm?
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Why bother to farm now? I tried my luck quite often, but only getting 1 white drop or collectible after killing a cave full of Raptors isn't really encouraging.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
You know, if they did that, it be just like the regular old lootscaling we have now, except with more drops across the board for everyone. So you don't mind lootscaling at all, what you want is just more gold.
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Yes, that way it becomes way easier to buy stuff that have fixed prices. And that's what this is all about. Items with flexible prices will drop in price no matter what the situation - as long as they drop and are farmable.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
That choice is there. Don't farm and make x gold, or farm and make upward of 2x gold.
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How does soloing give one double the gold compared to playing in a party? Sure, one gets to keep the gold coins for him/herself without sharing, but with because killing in a party is much fasterm it compensates. As for stuff that is on the exemption list - these things are pretty much useless because there are very little buyers for them, and it takes way too long to sell.
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03
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#1047
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Profession: W/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
How does soloing give one double the gold compared to playing in a party? Sure, one gets to keep the gold coins for him/herself without sharing, but with because killing in a party is much fasterm it compensates. As for stuff that is on the exemption list - these things are pretty much useless because there are very little buyers for them, and it takes way too long to sell.
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Well, for one, you do get about twice the gold flat out from mobs that drop gold versus hitting the area up in a group, that's just the way their non-linear LS works. Never mind that even if you can't sell all that other stuff to players, it merch's just fine (and isn't that the whole reason you want LS removed in the first place, so you can merch more crap for the gold?)
As an example, Just hitting up those raptors in normal mode for about six hours last weekend so I could get a stack of bunnies and eggs, my one and only "dedicated" farming stint, I made well over 20 plat just merch'ing everything I didn't keep to stick on a hero (which I blew in the course of chasing the dragon of figuring out a warrior build that could solo them in hard mode  - I'm sure there is one, I just never figured it out). If I'd sold the dozens of dyes (including 2 white and 3 black that dropped in this six hour or so stint) just to the dye trader, you could easily add another 10 plat or more to my yield, and that was in normal mode. If I'd sold those eggs and bunnies, which wouldn't have been hard at all, that would have been another 90 or so plat for that period. It was certainly more money than I ever made in that little time before. So how again is LS hurting me if I actually wanted to farm ? 
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13
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#1048
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Well, for one, you do get about twice the gold flat out from mobs that drop gold versus hitting the area up in a group, that's just the way their non-linear LS works. Never mind that even if you can't sell all that other stuff to players, it merch's just fine (and isn't that the whole reason you want LS removed in the first place, so you can merch more crap for the gold?)
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That's exactly why I want LS removed. I don't have the time to sell stuff, so the only way to make cash of farming is to sell to merch. And most stuff on the exemption list can't be sold to merch or is worth 1g.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
As an example, Just hitting up those raptors in normal mode for about six hours last weekend so I could get a stack of bunnies and eggs, my one and only "dedicated" farming stint, I made well over 20 plat just merch'ing everything I didn't keep to stick on a hero (which I blew in the course of chasing the dragon of figuring out a warrior build that could solo them in hard mode - I'm sure there is one, I just never figured it out). If I'd sold the dozens of dyes (including 2 white and 3 black that dropped in this six hour or so stint) just to the dye trader, you could easily add another 10 plat or more to my yield, and that was in normal mode. If I'd sold those eggs and bunnies, which wouldn't have been hard at all, that would have been another 90 or so plat for that period. It was certainly more money than I ever made in that little time before. So how again is LS hurting me if I actually wanted to farm ? |
It doesn't hurt you. You are a hardcore farmer and your drops are exempted from the LS. Casual farmers don't farm these things, however.
And let's not forget that stuff like Bunnies and Eggs are once a year. Without these, the drops would suck just as bad as normal (which means you'd get only 1 Saurian Bone or random white spear or something per run). You also got 3 black dyes in a Weekend which is EXTREMELY lucky. I have only found about 4 black dyes in 3 years. If I had such lucky drops, I would never have to farm again, either.
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20
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#1049
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Polar Bear Attendant
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
I don't have the time to..
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THERE YOU GO
You dont have the time OR you dont wanna take the time ?
You know what, tomorrow i dont have much time for GW, let's ask for a lvl 20 char from start if i wanna make a new one  .
Just farm and merch the whole stuff then.... >.<
(Weird you're claiming you dont have time to take care of your trades BUT when it comes to QQ it seems that time is a thing you got aplenty)
oh well another 00.2$ i know, i know ...
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22
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#1050
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Profession: W/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
It doesn't hurt you. You are a hardcore farmer and your drops are exempted from the LS. Casual farmers don't farm these things, however.
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Six hours out of more than 500 hours of game play spent farming raptors in normal mode for one weekend makes me a hard core farmer? You're just an idiot.
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40
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#1051
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Simple. The influx of added gold will devalue gold, raising prices. This does affect me.
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Problem is, that never happened, over the two year period prior to loot scaling, prices decreased to an all time low. THere simply is no evidnce for inflation when we had two years of deflation without loot scaling. Now we have hard mode and the supply of tradable items massively outstrips demand, and with that, prices are going to stay rock bottom, loot scaling or no.
Regarding the the poll, I'm not sure what it shows or how representative it is, but appart from being inconvenient to some posters PoV, it does prove that the minority here are an extremely vocal minority.
(crikey some of you pro LS peeps don't half yabber on )
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41
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#1052
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Witchblade
THERE YOU GO
You dont have the time OR you dont wanna take the time ?
You know what, tomorrow i dont have much time for GW, let's ask for a lvl 20 char from start if i wanna make a new one .
Just farm and merch the whole stuff then.... >.<
(Weird you're claiming you dont have time to take care of your trades BUT when it comes to QQ it seems that time is a thing you got aplenty)
oh well another 00.2$ i know, i know ... |
I don't HAVE the time. I only have 1/2 hours to play Guild Wars per day MAX. As for the reasons why or why not, these are non of your business. Making a personal attack on me was unneeded and doesn't contribute to the topic of wether LS should be removed or not, so let's not turn this into a flame war.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Six hours out of more than 500 hours of game play spent farming raptors in normal mode for one weekend makes me a hard core farmer? You're just an idiot.
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The time spent on farming has nothing to do with Casual Farming or Hardcore Farming. Casual farmers don't farm for certain drops to sell to other players, they farm the lowest of the lowest - white junk. They don't get a big reward and they don't need it. They just farm for a bit extra cash. They don't farm for the farming, they farm for the stuff that can be bought by farming.
You, however, farm items just to re-sell to other players. It's trading and farming in one. You make the time to farm, instead of farming to occupy the time with other stuff. And don't make personal attacks again please. If you have something against me, just don't reply/listen on what I say and leave me alone.
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Mar 27, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48
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#1053
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Guild: No Inherent Effect [NiE]
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
As an example, Just hitting up those raptors in normal mode for about six hours last weekend so I could get a stack of bunnies and eggs, my one and only "dedicated" farming stint, I made well over 20 plat just merch'ing everything I didn't keep to stick on a hero (which I blew in the course of chasing the dragon of figuring out a warrior build that could solo them in hard mode - I'm sure there is one, I just never figured it out). If I'd sold the dozens of dyes (including 2 white and 3 black that dropped in this six hour or so stint) just to the dye trader, you could easily add another 10 plat or more to my yield, and that was in normal mode. If I'd sold those eggs and bunnies, which wouldn't have been hard at all, that would have been another 90 or so plat for that period. It was certainly more money than I ever made in that little time before. So how again is LS hurting me if I actually wanted to farm ? |
See that 20k you made, now think off that twice to 3 times as much. See how LS works now?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Witchblade
THERE YOU GO
You dont have the time OR you dont wanna take the time ?
You know what, tomorrow i dont have much time for GW, let's ask for a lvl 20 char from start if i wanna make a new one .
Just farm and merch the whole stuff then.... >.<
(Weird you're claiming you dont have time to take care of your trades BUT when it comes to QQ it seems that time is a thing you got aplenty)
oh well another 00.2$ i know, i know ... |
Witchblade you know as well as the other that in the pre LS era money was easier to come by. Either through playing (IDS now FFS) or farming.
And for everybody time = money.
I used to think a this req 10+ skin is nice, or this purple can still sell for something. Nowadays I like most, don't care and just merch it.
Because a) due to the share supply it doesn't sell for anything.
b) if I did want to sell it, I would be standing in kamadan half a hour vending something for a bargain. In which same time I could have made more money by playing the game.
c) Make a guru thread and hoard your items to make a massive sale. Takes about 4hours + to set up. And pm'ing people well we all know how that goes.
And this is the whole crux we have now, Anet wants us to trade. But the only trades you are going to make are from very lucky super rare skin drops or mini pets that only drop once a year (hint hint  )
Thus we all make less money in the end. Well maybe you can still sell that mini polar bear for some duped ambraces. Which also now are in decline because of the bear investation.
Last edited by mr_groovy; Mar 27, 2008 at 10:59 PM // 22:59..
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Mar 27, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20
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#1054
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Profession: W/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
You, however, farm items just to re-sell to other players.
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Again, you're an idiot, and as long as you can't make a single cogent post in reply to me, don't expect me to just lie here and let you put words in my mouth. I stated very clearly that I didn't sell one item to anybody other than a merchant, and I still cleared far more cash than you claim is possible. I was only pointing out that if I had wanted to, just the "insta sell" items I got in that period would have pushed my income for six hours of work from ~20-25K to upwards of ~125K.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mr_groovy
See that 20k you made, now think off that twice to 3 times as much. See how LS works now?
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Exactly, which is why LS is a good thing and I fully support it. I flat out don't think I should have been able to make 10K an hour doing something so pointless and simple when the people actually playing the game are making 1/4th to 1/10th that depending on what they're doing.
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Mar 27, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23
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#1055
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Desert Nomad
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
As an example, Just hitting up those raptors in normal mode for about six hours last weekend so I could get a stack of bunnies and eggs, my one and only "dedicated" farming stint, I made well over 20 plat just merch'ing everything I didn't keep to stick on a hero (which I blew in the course of chasing the dragon of figuring out a warrior build that could solo them in hard mode - I'm sure there is one, I just never figured it out). If I'd sold the dozens of dyes (including 2 white and 3 black that dropped in this six hour or so stint) just to the dye trader, you could easily add another 10 plat or more to my yield, and that was in normal mode. If I'd sold those eggs and bunnies, which wouldn't have been hard at all, that would have been another 90 or so plat for that period. It was certainly more money than I ever made in that little time before. So how again is LS hurting me if I actually wanted to farm ? |
I don't know what is worse, the fact that you are defending 20k over 6 hours of dedicated farming or that you seem happy about it. And that extra 90k you said you could have made selling bunnies and eggs, that is a one weekend a year thing, so if you did that farming run normally, would you have been so happy with 20k?
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Mar 27, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40
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#1056
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Guild: No Inherent Effect [NiE]
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CHannum
Exactly, which is why LS is a good thing and I fully support it. I flat out don't think I should have been able to make 10K an hour doing something so pointless and simple when the people actually playing the game are making 1/4th to 1/10th that depending on what they're doing.
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/I agree
So your telling me that you don't care if you make more money or not? You want to keep LS because you can earn Less? /fail. (or commie  ).
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Mar 27, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46
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#1057
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2007
Guild: It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Witchblade
Weird you're claiming you dont have time to take care of your trades BUT when it comes to QQ it seems that time is a thing you got aplenty
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You have a reputation for being annoying as hell. I've read a few of your posts, and they either contain telling someone to QQ or some sort of name calling. One thing that pisses me off, and I'm sure it does to alot of others, is when someone tells someone to QQ or calls them a kid. If you don't like the person's statement about LS don't reply to them. What's even more pathetic is that you actually do.
Anyways, on topic. What I don't understand is, if LS was removed, why would the prices of rare crafting materals (such as ectos) go up? Wouldn't it go down, since they will drop more? Need answers.
Last edited by Sypherious; Mar 27, 2008 at 11:49 PM // 23:49..
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Mar 27, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50
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#1058
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Underworld Spelunker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo
Guild: Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]
Profession: E/
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Because the value of gold will decrease, so more materials would be kept as currency.
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Mar 28, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02
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#1059
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Forge Runner
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sypherious
Anyways, on topic. What I don't understand is, if LS was removed, why would the prices of rare crafting materals (such as ectos) go up? Wouldn't it go down, since they will drop more? Need answers. |
Ectos and the like are not affected by lootscaling. (As you should well know, you posted the list of exempted items yourself earlier.)
So, without lootscaling, people make tons of gold more than they do now, and use it to buy ecto to avoid the 1000k storage limit. The same supply of ecto plus a much bigger demand would lead to higher prices.
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Mar 28, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12
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#1060
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station
Guild: (SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Default Name
Where is the vanity bit if every schmuck is running around with a few of those?
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Just because everyone has one doesnt change it from being Vanity.
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