Curse

JeniM · Mar 20, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I don't understand what people are talking about.

People are saying if LS is taken out the expencive skins would become more expencive. Thats simply not true, they would cost more gold but the gold would be worth less. The actuall "cost" remains constant

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

STOP playing the "play the game" card all the time already. Pls let people play the game how they want to ehm kay.

Well, I'm not playing any card at all. I'm just really wondering what people like Reetkever are doing that's causing them to lose money on his ID and salvage kits. It sounds to me like that's either nonsensical hyperbole, or he's doing something really really odd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

It's certainly not true that farming or doing vanquish / elite-missions / doa isn't profitable. Nobody is saying that. But without LS it would be even more profitable for both normal play + farming.

Any kind of playstyle that I enjoy myself keeps my storage well-stocked with gold. I'm really curious what the people who can't make enough money are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

LS + IDS were set in motion vs Botters. If practically no botters are there ,why do we need to limit our income?

They weren't just implemented to deal with botters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

People are saying if LS is taken out the expencive skins would become more expencive. Thats simply not true, they would cost more gold but the gold would be worth less. The actuall "cost" remains constant

And the people who don't farm at all will virtually lose all access to anything that doesn't have a fixed price, because they won't have any more gold than they have now, and as you said, it will be worth less in the player-player market.

FoxBat · Mar 20, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

But without LS it would be even more profitable for both normal play + farming.

Do explain to me how removing LS would make normal-play (aka full team of 8) more profitable.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Do explain to me how removing LS would make normal-play (aka full team of 8) more profitable.

Everseen "IDS" in action? It does not discriminate between a full team or solo farming.

Once more "IDS" aka "Insta Death Scaling" is one of the subroutines of lootscaling. Kill a lot of critters at the same time, get absolutely zilch.
This goes for 1/8 or 8/8 teams.
Remove LS, and hopefully IDS is removed too. Thus actually giving you the drops you deserve in 8/8 or 1/8.

FoxBat · Mar 20, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

Once more "IDS" aka "Insta Death Scaling" is one of the subroutines of lootscaling. Kill a lot of critters at the same time, get absolutely zilch.
This goes for 1/8 or 8/8 teams.

IDS (more accruately, deaths per second in a small time frame, about 30-40s) is the entirety of loot scaling. You get full drops when solo if you kill slow enough.

The claim that it applies to full parties sounds completely wrong, but I will go about testing it, just as I tested solo loot scaling.

Shadowmere · Mar 20, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

economics...ick...but the thread's got my attention so here goes.

LS has greatly increased the worth of the gold coin, that's undeniable, player to player trades are in much smaller sums than before LS. However with everyone's income less and the gold coin having more worth it has had no affect on static priced items, mainly everything from merchants, skill trainers, armor and weapon crafters. This means 15k armor is that much harder to obtain for those saving for it, as compaired with before LS when income was much higher for the average player that 15k crafting price wasn't so intimidating. However the high end market still exists, mind you I don't really get into that, but it seems to me the obscene sums traded for super high end items would be simply excrutiating to earn in the current state. Seems like most of the trader's gold has been in currency before LS (pays to save I guess).

so...all in all, if I had to I'd /sign, but really I'd just prefer the static item prices be dropped to better suit the current value of the gold coin.

bhavv · Mar 20, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Just a random remark I need to get off my chest:

I can't really imagine how some people posting here about how little gold they make, play the game. Myself, I can't seem to make less than 5k in 2 hours worth of 8 people play, ever. Spending a night (3-4 hours tops) playing with guildies, just helping each other do missions, or dungeons or whatever, I rarely end up with less than +10k in my storage.

Selling a full inventory alone is an easy 2.5k, each and every time, and that's without accounting for special finds like runes and materials, which I tend to store until I have a spare moment to make up my mind about them.

Yes I also make 5-10k everyday from full party play, which is enough for kits, scrolls and consumables. But I have very little left over to put towards the 1.6 Million I still need to buy enough sweets and booze to max my titles, also I need another million to max party animal. I cant make that much money with LS, but before LS I sad 500k in my storage which rapidly depleted and I couldnt remake it. I also want 4 chaos gloves.... That will never happen with LS and my inability to make enough money to buy some of the ectos, but I would lkie to have chaos gloves on all my Chars because I like them.

LS shafted me. If Anet want to have optional titles and high end content, Players that choose to pursue these should have an option to make the money for it if they want.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

And the people who don't farm at all will virtually lose all access to anything that doesn't have a fixed price, because they won't have any more gold than they have now, and as you said, it will be worth less in the player-player market.

But because without LS you earn more money through normal play, it will balance it. While giving you easier access to the Fixed priced Items.

kartmaster · Mar 20, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I'm still /signed because I enjoy farming, and why wouldn't I want as much reward as possible? If I can solo an area designed for 8 players, why should I not get all the rewards? LS basically boils down to a tax on farmers (and bots).

For those saying 15k armor and static items are relatively more expensive than they used to be for the casual player. I don't think it's so black and white.

Most casual players are likely to PUG or H/H a majority of the time. These people are getting EXACTLY the same amount of income they were before. It isn't going to be ANY harder to get 15k armor post LS than it was before for anyone who usually plays with a full party.

Static priced items HAVE gotten relatively more expensive for those who choose to solo a significant amount of time. Which is and always was what the outcry was all about.

Those who normally play with a full party should be FOR Loot Scaling, as it gives them more buying power in transactions that are market driven. While real prices of fixed goods have actually remained unchanged.

HawkofStorms · Mar 20, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes I also make 5-10k everyday from full party play, which is enough for kits, scrolls and consumables. But I have very little left over to put towards the 1.6 Million I still need to buy enough sweets and booze to max my titles, also I need another million to max party animal. I cant make that much money with LS, but before LS I sad 500k in my storage which rapidly depleted and I couldnt remake it. I also want 4 chaos gloves.... That will never happen with LS and my inability to make enough money to buy some of the ectos, but I would lkie to have chaos gloves on all my Chars because I like them.

LS shafted me. If Anet want to have optional titles and high end content, Players that choose to pursue these should have an option to make the money for it if they want.

So.... you want several ridiculously expensive grind based titles and are ticked that they are expensive/take a long time to acomplish?

Max sweet tooth/drunkard/party animal are not for everybody. It is supposed to be ridiculous to get that and FoW armor. We are talking about stuff that matters to the "casual" gamer, having enough to buy skills, basic armor, and weapons. Not have 1337 titles that are designed to show off that you have money.

NeHoMaR · Mar 20, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

And we all know the only reason Lootscaling was introduced, was because of these goldwebsites.

I am not really sure about that. I think it was implemented to prevent players for solo farm, and promote team play.

Anyway, even when I ain't (wasn't) a hardcore farmer, farming is indeed fun, a lot of interesting builds I really miss. Not for the gold, just for the fun.

IMO gold is not needed in this game, I almost never need my gold ever, absolutely. Coincidentally the armors I normally like more are 1k ones, and any decent inscriptable weapon(s) is enough for me, specially because I use unpopular ones, so I am unique.

Is not that, ironically, what people is wanting to buy with gold? the uniqueness? I got it without gold!

Off topic: LOL, a lot of weird words I used in this thread, specially countin I am NOT english speaker ^_^

Eli Rela · Mar 20, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

it is catch 22, you want more 1337 items, so you need more gold, so you go to your friendly local gold seller store and buy it. LS were always something that gave more business to gold sellers.
So now with that backdoor closed (supposedly) Anet should let people get money legitimately in-game (via farming, trading or whatever you like) and remove LS.

so I signed again .. here:

/signed

Loviatar · Mar 20, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

But because without LS you earn more money through normal play, it will balance it. While giving you easier access to the Fixed priced Items.

so provably wrong

you top hardcore are complaining about prices going down and blaming LS.

then you claim getting rid of what you are blaming will keep the prices going lower instead of going back up?

NOTE THIS HARDCORE GOLD GRUBBERS

since early beta i have watched and enjoyed every 100 per cent consistant move by ANET to open the games nice stuff to their PLAYERBASE which is the casual person playing the game insteag of i have it you dont so i win.

ANET has not made a single change in favor of the elite hardcore farmer/trader who spends 6/8/10 hours a day who says if they are not dedicated enough like me they dont deserve to have nice stuff.

you are a very tiny elite splinter group that NCsoft/Anet s bottom line will never even notice if you all quit today.

LS will not be reversed or changed for the greed monkeys in my opinion.

going to see about a few more spiked minutes dancing to ale hound for now.

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

so provably wrong

you top hardcore are complaining about prices going down and blaming LS.

then you claim getting rid of what you are blaming will keep the prices going lower instead of going back up?

NOTE THIS HARDCORE GOLD GRUBBERS

since early beta i have watched and enjoyed every 100 per cent consistant move by ANET to open the games nice stuff to their PLAYERBASE which is the casual person playing the game insteag of i have it you dont so i win.

ANET has not made a single change in favor of the elite hardcore farmer/trader who spends 6/8/10 hours a day who says if they are not dedicated enough like me they dont deserve to have nice stuff.

you are a very tiny elite splinter group that NCsoft/Anet s bottom line will never even notice if you all quit today.

LS will not be reversed or changed for the greed monkeys in my opinion.

going to see about a few more spiked minutes dancing to ale hound for now.

I'm flattered that you would put me among the Elite farming /high ballers group

But alas those days are long gone. RL grind keeps me up at night

The semi-rare skins will become perhaps a bit more expensive (nothing over night). But due to lack of LS you will have the financial means to buy it.

The real High End stuff maybe will in crease more dramatically. Then again, aquiring that money will be easier too.

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes I also make 5-10k everyday from full party play, which is enough for kits, scrolls and consumables. But I have very little left over to put towards the 1.6 Million I still need to buy enough sweets and booze to max my titles, also I need another million to max party animal.

[/quote]
Well, here I got what I asked for. I can see how you wouldn't see a steady rise of your gold supply if you use scrolls and consumables. I don't think I ever spent gold on either of those.

Wild Karrde · Mar 20, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

/signed just because theres no reason to say no.

I didnt farm much to begin with but maybe Ill be able to take the extreme boredom of it a little easier if loot scaling is taken away.

Quote:

Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops).

Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them.

Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them.

Now all the crybabies who threw all the temper tantrums cause they couldnt get quite as filthy rich quite as easily before will be happy again. Im sure they will still find something to whine about but this should keep em happy for a bit.

Gli · Mar 20, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

The semi-rare skins will become perhaps a bit more expensive (nothing over night). But due to lack of LS you will have the financial means to buy it.

The real High End stuff maybe will in crease more dramatically. Then again, aquiring that money will be easier too.

Trading will be so much fun! I can't wait to see more of those 100k + x ecto 'bargains', with ecto back at 15k+. That's just what the market needs to be more accessible to casual players.

Lem · Mar 20, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I disagree with this, lootscaling is a good thing and anyone who finds it hard to make money in the current system isn't trying hard enough.

not to mention without lootscaling you get hyper inflation in effect as there is far more gold in the system which prices casual players our of the market much more all over again. Any increase in the amount of gold in the bank for a hardcore player is purely a vanity of the number because their money would still be worth the same in relation to what you would be able to buy for it in most instances.

Eli Rela · Mar 20, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

can we have a poll on this, as it is hard to tally atm, though majority here definitely in favor of LS removal.

Scary · Mar 20, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lem

I disagree with this, lootscaling is a good thing and anyone who finds it hard to make money in the current system isn't trying hard enough.

not to mention without lootscaling you get hyper inflation in effect as there is far more gold in the system which prices casual players our of the market much more all over again. Any increase in the amount of gold in the bank for a hardcore player is purely a vanity of the number because their money would still be worth the same in relation to what you would be able to buy for it in most instances.

BLOP BLOP BLOP... are we all from a different solar system........

WHY o WHY... do "some" people think that... US.. WE... THE PvE players
want LS be gone just for the mony...
NOOOOO We, Us.. THE PvE players arnt interested in LOTS of mony...
We just wanna have the fun of the drops.. And not raoming miles and miles
and ask your self... Do I have a hole in my bag