Curse

Randvek · Mar 19, 2008, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Yes, though I can think of plenty of instances in which things were nerfed to combat a problem, the problem was later removed, and the nerf remained.

Then again, when enough people complain about farming, it's been shown to make a difference.

mr_groovy · Mar 19, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

Loot scaling was not implemented to counter real money trading. It was implemented to prevent the imbalance of income between a solo farmer and a group player, as a solo farmer was earning so much gold that a group player could not enter the economy.

So, in my opinion, the loot scaling should NOT be removed.

That was just a side effect. Loot scaling was implemented for gold bots.
If it was true that they had something against farming, then "Repeated map entry no longer reduces loot" in Update april 2007 wouldn't make sence.

prism2525 · Mar 19, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

I say give it a month or two and see how it plays out.

If it works they should remove it or at LEAST half its effect. You have no idea how hard it is to find the trophies needed for certain quests with LS on.

SirSausage · Mar 19, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Now that the bots won't be able to log in, LS should be removed.
IMO it's a shame, that real players have to suffer the consequences of botting.

Fril Estelin · Mar 19, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

If the anti-RMT features are successful, not only does Loot Scaling no longer makes sense, but reverting it may allow to catch the last few botters (I guess without loot scaling they had insane amounts of gold).

Let's give Anet some time now to action this, and do not forget to report the last few bots! (I hope they add the RMT reason to the report function)[/I]

TideSwayer · Mar 19, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

The main problem for me with lootscaling in effect is how BORING farm runs are now. It's simply not fun to kill a bunch of creatures and get 2-3 drops. I don't care if there were legit inflation concerns or not (rare minis are worth MORE now than they were the day LS was implemented so ......... no), but it's simply not fun. The reason why builds like the 600 Smite Monk/Monk team have become popular of late is because you can take on practically entire zones with it, and killing that many mobs is bound to fill up your inventory sooner or later, lootscaling or not. Normal farm runs don't. They used to. Add in the problems that have plagued LS since inception such as killing too many mobs at once reduces drops (the "rate of kill" bug), and the fact that money titles (and titles are what ANet wants everyone to work on these days, right?) are harder to get now than they were before lootscaling due to the lesser-money vs. fixed cost issues.

ANet can go ahead and keep the slower rate of income gain via farming, but people make more sitting in town buying and reselling high-end items than all the poorer players would ever make by farming w/o LS. The main problem is that most of the people who are able to buy/resell the asian minis, new rare skins, etc., are those who made their fortunes years ago when money was easier to come by (note I didn't say quicker, just easier), while the majority of the newer playerbase is left out in the cold. Playing the game normally gives you more money than before, but it's still laughable amounts. The zone vanquish payout is godawful, especially for the average time it takes to do a vanquish.

Most of us have more or less finished up what we want to do in the game. We're all sitting around trying to amuse ourselves waiting for GW2, and sorry to say, getting 2-3 drops during a short farm run isn't going to be enough. I don't know if LS should be removed entirely, but ANet would be wise to consider amends to the current droprates, and especially the prices of fixed items such as spells and picks/keys. Spells, for sure. Cap sigs too. (and where are the cap sig tomes?)

O Nuxtofulakas · Mar 19, 2008, 09:59 AM // 09:59

1) game economy suffered a lot to destroy it once again...

2) there is no need to give a BIG incentive to gold sellers to break the system and find "holes" that can exploit it...

3) there is no need to create a new generation of "human bots" that farm trolls all day long

4) golds, rare mats etc etc, are not affected from loot scaling. so those looking for rares and mention title hunting are not affected by that

anet don't rise again the problems of the past..

Fril Estelin · Mar 19, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Loot scaling is not synonym with farming or anti-farm code. Though obviously it has an impact on farming, removing LS would simply allow you to get more drops when simply playing! Meaning, it could actually put less stress on farming (or make you farm every time you play, depending on your point of view) but it could also, more importantly, enable casual players (for the others, would it make a lot of difference?) to get more easily the elite armors for example. The impact on the economy is not obvious, because people could use the increase in money in gold sinks, rather than reinject it in the economy (so price increase would not meet a lower demand and we could go back to the pre-bots economy?).

Koning · Mar 19, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

I've missed the farming (and how fun it could be) and maybe I'll start again if I can actually make a profit out of it.

ragnagard · Mar 19, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

For sure, it should.
As i always said.. if its was tool to prevent bot farming it failed, critically. There were bots, there are (till recent updates) a lot of bots / gold selling.
If a better solution is implemented (and last update looks like that) non-working solutions should be removed.

This act can cause a increase on prices.. but just the same as incoming drop.
Merchant things will be at the same price,armors will be just from 75g to 15k till now. Materials will vary a bit. Skills to

Then... tell me what a newcomer need:
* armor? same price, maybe up/down caused by materials.
* weapons? same price, maybe up/down caused by materials.
* skills? starting from 50g to 1k ea.

Or you were thinking about minipets for the newc.?

A newcomer should do the storyline to enjoy the game AND after that (or great part of it), farm if he/she wants. And if succesfull, he/she will get some more things.

Even without farming, drops while doing the storyline (for farming haters or something like) like golden items will worth more, as mods will do.

Really dont see the point of still having it.

S_Serpent · Mar 19, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

was worst update, but since bots and gold sellers now can be id-ed easier and banned we don't need loot scaling anymore

DivineEnvoy · Mar 19, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I'm not supporting loot-scaling, but I have a few questions.

Didn't Anet introduce loot-scaling to promote gameplay with full parties instead of gameplay with merely soloing?

As far as I can tell, this new policy only limits the possibilities of the returns of these accounts that are used for these companies. And as for the block for the use of open proxy, it doesn't eliminate all the accounts that are used for the given purpose. It is still questionable how Anet will obtain these IP addresses, which are used for the blacklist, unless they have first identified the IP addresses that are used by bot users. In short, this policy does not terminate all the bots or gold-selling companies, but instead, this policy will further protect the game from these violators, or so it is believed. Haven't we jumped into the conclusion that this policy will remove all the violators, which loot-scaling can be removed due to this assumption?

If Anet removes loot-scaling, wouldn't they just add certain unwanted features such as the old Farming Code or the AI settings that inhibit most farming builds back into the game?

I have to point out; before the introduction of loot-scaling, there were several updates that changed the outputs of items that are farmed. For example, initially, rare monster armors can consist a minor rune or a major rune as well as a superior rune, which lowered the supplies of these superior runes. Nonetheless, it was later changed so that rare monster armors will only consist of superior runes. If Anet removes loot-scaling, will it really impact the game to the direction many people believe it would?

TideSwayer · Mar 19, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Not sure if i'm trying to make a positive point or a negative point here, just something that all the "LS be gone!!!!!!" people need to consider:

ANet raised the droprate of golds and rares when they put LS into the game, and they'd almost certainly lower it in the theoretical sense of it ever being removed. Just because every dead creature would drop something doesn't mean a raptor run would give you all 3 ele swords, 2 gold jagged reavers, and 5 purples a run. You'll be getting 13 saurian bones and a white lesser jagged reaver. Maybe once every couple of weeks you'll get that nice gold or inscription. Basically, farm runs would be garbage runs once again. You'll almost certainly have to go to town and buy most of the skins/mods you want. People would farm to make money to go to town and buy the skins that a couple people in a giant crowd were lucky enough to get. Everyone gets elemental swords now doing raptor runs. Could you deal with only getting white trash most of the time while maybe 1 person out of 500 is lucky enough to get that r11 ele sword drop? Serious question here. It would certainly make skins more rare if LS was removed and droprates were inevitably lowered. Is that honestly what most of you who hate LS believe the economy needs right now?

Also, if ANet lowered the prices of keys/picks, they'd almost certainly be forced to raise the purple rate out of chests too. There are checks and balances to everything. Are getting your garbage farm runs back that important? FWIW, I really hate the EotN way of doing things, where most of the unique skins come out of dungeon end chests only, and not out of the normal chests in the dungeon along the way (and not as drops from monsters along the way either).

Hell Raiser · Mar 19, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

For me, the drops always kept me from getting bored (hyped me up) back in the good 'ol days. Now if you kill a mob of 20 enemies, you get like 3 drops, that are almost always white. Wtf. So /signed.

PS: /congrats to Anet for finding a way to stop bots without having a huge affect on players (assuming it'll work).

papryk · Mar 19, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Didn't Anet introduce loot-scaling to promote gameplay with full parties instead of gameplay with merely soloing?

and to promote gameplay with full parties they introduced heroes?

TideSwayer · Mar 19, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

If Anet removes loot-scaling, wouldn't they just add certain unwanted features such as the old Farming Code or the AI settings that inhibit most farming builds back into the game?

Farm code would almost certainly return in full force. Most farming is done in hard mode anyways, and the AI there is still as scatter-heavy as it ever was at any time.

ragnagard · Mar 19, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Didn't Anet introduce loot-scaling to promote gameplay with full parties instead of gameplay with merely soloing?

How many times you see now, with LS turned on, pugs/ guildparties going together to farm into an explorable area if not on DOA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

If Anet removes loot-scaling, wouldn't they just add certain unwanted features such as the old Farming Code or the AI settings that inhibit most farming builds back into the game?

Someones (and me too) think that this (anti farm code) is happening right now, even when we were told that it wont happen. I wont say this would change or be noticeable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

... doesn't mean a raptor run would give you all 3 ele swords, 2 gold jagged reavers, and 5 purples a run. You'll be getting 13 saurian bones and a white lesser jagged reaver. Maybe once every couple of weeks you'll get that nice gold or inscription. Basically, farm runs would be garbage runs once again. You'll almost certainly have to go to town and buy most of the skins/mods you want. People would farm to make money to go to town and buy the skins that a couple people in a giant crowd were lucky enough to get. Everyone gets elemental swords now doing raptor runs. Could you deal with only getting white trash most of the time while maybe 1 person out of 500 is lucky enough to get that r11 ele sword drop?

Yeah that will be a perfect world where you got real cash from crap instead nothing and... 1 saurian bone. And btw.. lootscaling doesnt work the same way now? *Cough* DAW skins that are dropped*cough* serpentine reaver *cough*
And.. tell me... a rare skin, shouldnt be rare? I am one of the people that thinks that paying >100k for a weapon is a madness, so i dont like rares. But that's the "rare" meaning, something you can't get easily.

Same opinion as you with EotN new skins... should be dropped, greens or anything but 1 hour-to-try

Arduin · Mar 19, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

For me, the drops always kept me from getting bored (hyped me up) back in the good 'ol days. Now if you kill a mob of 20 enemies, you get like 3 drops, that are almost always white. Wtf. So /signed.

The only drops that are affected by loot scaling are commons and gold (money) drops. The stuff you are farming for, be it Ecto, Gems, Destroyer Cores, Rare Weapons, Party Stuff are exempt.

So you didn't get anything better than those three drops, but this had nothing to do with loot scaling.

-----

If anything, the bug concerning killing lots of creatures at once should be removed. If I kill 20 foes at the same time, why should my drops be 10 times worse compared to killing them 1 by 1?

Phaern Majes · Mar 19, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Considering that I don't think loot scaling should have ever been implemented, I'll agree with removing it.

Sleeper Service · Mar 19, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

No, It was neither bots nor goldsellers that was pushing prices up.

it was farmers, gimmick builds and greedy players.

the "economy" is fine now we can all get what we want for a reasonable trade in time spent.