Curse

Feathermoore Rep · Apr 17, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

This thread is all sorts of fail...

Short Post: NCoin is simply a good business decision. Other companies have/are using it and it works. However, you have to make sure that the items/effects of using NCcoins are balanced with those who play without them.

Long Post: This is nothing new. Its been known they were going to start using NCcoin for awhile. Besides that, its just good business. (Assuming that the game designers keep the games balanced <- Important Assumption - Re-read to make sure you got it.) Because all they do is make more money for doing nothing. They already made the game - so why not make more money by letting hardcore/lazy/rich/<insert adjective of choice here> players take a shortcut. Other companies already do it and easily profit from it. Its just NCsoft keeping up with gaming market.

On the note of Exteel - NCcoin = win is just that simple. However sub-200 ping = win as well. Skill level and time played/pilot development do not have as much importance as they should. The only way to determine better players was in Pinkett only fights (starter mech for those who didn't play). I've played some INTENSE fights in the lvl 1-14 only matches. But after the lvl 14 mark, the advantage of buying items with NCcoin just overshadows potential player skill. Its a decent game. Not a new idea, but an interesting adaptation of in terms of game design. ]

But i digress as this isn't an Exteel discussion - but i'd thought i'd share my two cents as its been brought up.

wetsparks · Apr 17, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

alundro, people are complaining because it is the nature of this forum to overreact and complain. never mind that I proved by stating an interview with the people who run ANet that this is not going to happen, but whatever.

Lord Sojar · Apr 17, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

I hate NCSoft/PlayNC. They are quite possibly the worst company ever to exist. ANET needs to buy their freedom from this oppressive, disfunctional company ASAP and perhaps partner with SCEA, who has the best management they have had since the late 80's.

Drop of Fear · Apr 17, 2008, 05:25 AM // 05:25

i seriously hope this is just for free games like exteel as an alternative business model.
if there's anything like this in guild wars, goodbye

Surena · Apr 17, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

90% didn't read the article and believes in GW2 enforcing such a business model while it cleary does not (and has been pointed out already). 99% of them regards others making money (off such business models) as evil as long as they get theirs for free.

Most of Guru's population is <18, lives at home with no income or is a student bum. They fail at accepting that such business models have a playerbase that is willing to pay for virtual items and is strong enough to make the whole thing damn profitable.

GW2 should have monthly fees, it could only be better for the game. More dedicated support, maintenance, diverse events and updates.

Rhedd · Apr 17, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

90% didn't read the article and believes in GW2 enforcing such a business model while it cleary does not (and has been pointed out already). 99% of them regards others making money (off such business models) as evil as long as they get theirs for free.

Most of Guru's population is <18, lives at home with no income or is a student bum. They fail at accepting that such business models have a playerbase that is willing to pay for virtual items and is strong enough to make the whole thing damn profitable.

GW2 should have monthly fees, it could only be better for the game. More dedicated support, maintenance, diverse events and updates.

I'm 39 years old, a game developer, own my house, and have money to burn, and I couldn't possibly agree with your post less.

When a game charges monthly fees, the entire design attitude changes. It becomes about making you, the player, think you'll have fun later if you just keep playing (and paying), and not about having fun now. Allowing you to actually have fun, be satisfied, and go away happy is bad business.

No thank you.

I'm not going to jump on the Armageddon-predicting bandwagon, here, but I will gently point out that while it's been stated that GW2 absolutely will not have a monthly fee, nobody ever said anything about expanding the in-game store to include all sorts of addictive little transactions just like any Asian microtransaction-based game.

I've played some games with this business model, and I agree, it does not belong in the GW franchise, and don't be so sure that it won't happen.

I, myself, have already bought gold-edition weapon skins and skill packs from GWs online shop, and that was fine. However, that's just one step away from making us buy "tokens", and offer things in the shop that you feel stupid for not having.

As soon as I can't have fun without spending money (past the original purchase price), I'm out of here.

This seems like the perfect opportunity for our brand-new community relations lady to jump in and put all our minds to rest. ^_^

escoffier · Apr 17, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

as sure as i am that anet would not allow something like this to happen to gw2 it would sure be nice for our new crm to jump in just to set aside all possible thoughts that this might occur

Lord Feathers · Apr 17, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

I'm 39 years old, a game developer, own my house, and have money to burn, and I couldn't possibly agree with your post less.

When a game charges monthly fees, the entire design attitude changes. It becomes about making you, the player, think you'll have fun later if you just keep playing (and paying), and not about having fun now. Allowing you to actually have fun, be satisfied, and go away happy is bad business.

No thank you.

I'm not going to jump on the Armageddon-predicting bandwagon, here, but I will gently point out that while it's been stated that GW2 absolutely will not have a monthly fee, nobody ever said anything about expanding the in-game store to include all sorts of addictive little transactions just like any Asian microtransaction-based game.

I've played some games with this business model, and I agree, it does not belong in the GW franchise, and don't be so sure that it won't happen.

I, myself, have already bought gold-edition weapon skins and skill packs from GWs online shop, and that was fine. However, that's just one step away from making us buy "tokens", and offer things in the shop that you feel stupid for not having.

As soon as I can't have fun without spending money (past the original purchase price), I'm out of here.

This seems like the perfect opportunity for our brand-new community relations lady to jump in and put all our minds to rest. ^_^

Exactly ^^^^^

That's the entire point of the thread. NCSoft owns Anet and you can't tell me a smaller company can tell their boss NO if it's already been decided to impliment something. So what's happening ? Anyone from ANET wish to comment or is the community relations going to say nothing ?

netniwk · Apr 17, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

[]WANT
[x] DO NOT WANT

Vinraith · Apr 17, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

I agree with everything Rhedd said above. Furthermore, let me add my voice to the chorus of "I will never buy or play a game that involves this system." The presence or absence of "Guild Wars" in the title does nothing to change that.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 17, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

90% didn't read the article and believes in GW2 enforcing such a business model while it cleary does not (and has been pointed out already). 99% of them regards others making money (off such business models) as evil as long as they get theirs for free.

Most of Guru's population is <18, lives at home with no income or is a student bum. They fail at accepting that such business models have a playerbase that is willing to pay for virtual items and is strong enough to make the whole thing damn profitable.

GW2 should have monthly fees, it could only be better for the game. More dedicated support, maintenance, diverse events and updates.

I'm a recent graduate with a decent apartment. I certainly have the money to pay for subscription games, I just have a major problem with the idea behind it. If I spend 50 bucks on a game, I think I deserve to play it without any further cost. If I play for a year and spend a further 180 bucks on a subscription, I should have something to show for it. I'm fine paying for extra campaigns and endless expansions, because I get to keep what I buy.

I still play games I bought 10 years ago, I want to have the option of doing that with any game I spend my hard-earned money on.

Also, as Rhedd said, subscription-based games have a tendency to add grind, and other ways of dragging out playtime. I'd prefer devs focus on making games fun, not milking me for another monthly fee.

I don't much like microtransaction games either, although I'm less opposed to them than subscriptions. The trouble with that system is the devs focus on annoying the crap out of the free players via gimped weapons, annoying mechanics, and constantly telling players how awesome the game would be if you'd just cough up 10 bucks for fancy stuff.

Games should be fun first, then worry about payment.

Bowman Artemis · Apr 17, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Read further down the webpage

ON NCSOFT BUSINESS MODELS:
“NCcoin is just one of many elements that make up the variety of business models NCsoft has to offer. We have grown to the point where if you are a MMOG player and you like the traditional subscription-based game, we have those. If you are an MMOG player seeking a free to play and download game with microtransactions, we have that. If you just want to pay for software and have lifetime play, we have that too. The bottom line for NCsoft is that we want to be able to offer a variety of business models to meet the needs of the different customers out there. NCcoin is another way to make it easier for customers to access the kind of game they want to play.”

Looks like the ArenaNet business model is safe.

Highlighting this post again. Guild Wars isn't and Guild Wars 2 won't be a free to play and download game. A free to play and download game is something along the lines of Dungeon Runners or Runescape <shudder> where both the client (whether browser-based or not) and game access itself is free.

Guild Wars is Free to Play.
Dungeon Runners is Free to Download and Play.
WoW is Pay to Acquire and Play.

The system they're introducing is pretty much the same as SilkRoad Online has. The game is 100% free but other things can be bought to enhance the player's experience. A completely different business model to the Guild Wars one.

zwei2stein · Apr 17, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

“NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible, and what role NCcoin will play with our future console offerings have yet to be determined. NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games.”

... snip your leveling of copypaste skills ...

Your point?

Its turns out that GW1 model can definitely work with micro transaction system.

Hell, we have items in cash shop right now (GOTY weapons) as well as tiny bits of playable content (BMP). People asked for more weapons, People asked for more mini content, People asked for haircuts and character renames, People asked for freaking minipets.

If you think that it is inconceivable that GW2 wont build up on huge demand for cash-shopesque stuff, think again. By time GW2 is out, gen pop will already be used to cash shop stuff and oldtimers preaching against it in gw2 will have to face ridicule and 2009(10) version of lolcats.

StormDragonZ · Apr 17, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games.”

What I have in bold significantly points to a wonderful assumption GW2 will have this. If so, thanks for GW1... I'll be playing it for a very very long time.

Drop of Fear · Apr 17, 2008, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

ON WHICH GAMES FIT NCCOIN:
“NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible, and what role NCcoin will play with our future console offerings have yet to be determined. NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games.”

What I have in bold significantly points to a wonderful assumption GW2 will have this. If so, thanks for GW1... I'll be playing it for a very very long time.

free to play and download = not guild wars or guild wars 2... u have to pay for the box before u can play...

zwei2stein · Apr 17, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Hmm ... where is Regina when we need her?

Rhedd · Apr 17, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop of Fear

free to play and download = not guild wars or guild wars 2... u have to pay for the box before u can play...

A major part of Weaselspeak is omitting commas that should've been there.

It's pretty simple. Keep this thread on the front page, and give Anet 48 hours. Heck, be generous and give them 72.

If, at the end of that time, nobody from Anet/NCsoft has jumped on to loudly assure everyone that GW2 would absolutely never do such a thing, then assume the worst.

arsie · Apr 17, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Micro-payment games are meant for several groups of gamers. Firstly, third world countries where gamers are usually hard pressed to come up with $50 at a go, so essentially micro-payment games allow the players to pay by installment. And we all know about installments, you always end up paying more.

It is also a model is also targeted at school children. The Free to Download and Free to Play part builds a critical mass of users, and the social aspects of the game gets kids paying for stuff. Kids spend parts of their pocket money regularly buying the game cards.

I feel like GW2 is styled and marketed to late teens and adults, who can afford $50 games and $15/month subscription via credit card. Those are definitely methods of sales that are more reliable for bottom line, than to release a free game hoping it gets popular enough for people to spend money on it $1 at a time.

Fril Estelin · Apr 17, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Except it's not an arguement, it's a fact.

Even if I didn't know this, common sense would still have led me to the same conclusion.

Somewhat, I'd like to hear what Regina has to say on that. I think it needs to be clarified asap, despite all the evidence pointing to the fact that it won't apply to GW2.

Kamatsu · Apr 17, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCGamer Issue 161 Volume 14 Number 5

"For three years, people have been looking for a catch," says Jeff Strain. "There's no catch." Guild Wars 2 will employ the same model as the current Guild Wars game: You buy the boxed game and play the game online as often as you wish, without monthly fees. That's it.

So...what's the catch? Should we expect micro transactions, where players will have to pay for superior in game items? No.

Should we expect any sort of pay-to-play scheme at all? No.

Will there be any, even remote changes--any changes of any sort--to the current Guild Wars business model? No, no, and no, says Mike O'Brien.

"In Guild Wars 1, the business model was: Buy the game and play it as long as you want with no monthly fees; we'll periodically sell additional content that you can choose to buy or not to buy, and we'll maintain the game so that anyone who plays it ends up getting the free updates. In Guild Wars 2, the business model is exactly the same, Buy the game and play it as long as you want with no monthly fees; we will periodically sell additional content that you can choose to buy or not buy, and and we'll constantly maintain the game so that anyone who plays it ends up getting lots of free updates."

How will ArenaNet's no-subscription model offset the costs associated with supporting a persistent world? "We have technology that lets us reduce the costs," Stain says, though he won't elaborate on the ingredients of that secret sauce. "Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be non-subscription. A persistent world doesn't alter that much," he says...

Until there is evidence to state otherwise, end of discussion. GW2 will not be effected by NCoin, unless otherwise stated by ANet themselves.