Curse

CHannum · Jan 03, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Guild Wars, when done with the campaigns, does not offer a whole lot after that.

And WoW does? Get the blinders off. They're both purely poops & grins goofing off beyond a certain point. WoW is different in that, one, there is more variety of poops and grins things to waste time on and, two, WoW makes much of the pointless goofing off into work, which many mistake for "challenge".

There is a set of lore stories within each game; you will (or easily can I suppose) experience just about all the lore stories there are to experience within a fraction of the time the average player of either spends playing the game. If there is a key difference, it is that for even a very active player it takes at least a month or two to reach that point with a single character in WoW, whereas you will hit that point in week or two if you play that much in GW with just a single character in a single campaign.

Unless something has changed since I last played, the vast majority of stuff there is to do beyond the core lore quest chains in WoW are purely fluff with no more game value than titles in GW. Engineers got to make bullets, everything else was pretty much a time and money sink for a few laughs. Enchanters had the most game application both in practical and aesthetic uses, but it was a phenomenal money sink that kept you or your friends farming for ages just to get to where you could finally turn a profit (if you ignored what it took to reach that point). Smiths were hosed in that even the rarest of rare recipes cost three arms and a dozen legs to get in the first place, and another set of arms and legs to craft but was inferior to drops, both for armor and weapons. Skinners only found value in that everybody chasing these pointless skills needed their stuff, and so on for the other professions.

So fine, Guild Wars didn't go to that sort of "complexity" for the pointless grind for people who need to do something other than main quests, but let's not kid ourselves that unless you keep your helm of belief suspension on tightly that they're actually any different. It's merely a question of whether you find either system entertaining.

You keep trying to tell me there's more to WoW than there actually is. I played it a LOT so it's not like you're going to fool me by constantly repeating the same exaggerations. I think if time and cost isn't an issue, it's a marginally better game than GW, but it's only marginally better, both in content, depth, and replayability. WoW just gives you the illusion of replayability through the endgame grind for gear. GW is more honest and gives you a endgame grind for skins. If there's anything to be learned, it's that most game players are too stupid to see that there isn't actually any real difference (excepting raid content where the devs figured out how to make that every 0.2% damage reduction mean the difference between success and screaming death).

Maybe I will hit the wall sooner with GW than I did with WoW, I don't know, I haven't been playing it long enough to say that with certainty, but I'm having just as much fun playing GW as I ever did WoW and I'm not tied to a subscription fee to do it. Because of that, it won't even have to last that long before it surpasses WoW for units of fun per dollars spent.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 03, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

PC wins but Macs are better.. hm.

Sorry, but I can't let that pass. You asked for it.

According to Uncyclopedia...

By the way, to stay on topic, I wonder how long until everyone gets tired of WoW and it goes empty?

Cacheelma · Jan 03, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

By the way, to stay on topic, I wonder how long until everyone gets tired of WoW and it goes empty?

A lot longer than it takes for GW, I'd say.

Calrisian Nantos · Jan 03, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Ive played GW since release, and played wow since not long after they released, I love the fact that I can always come back to gw without having to renew a subscription, and there are alot of other things about GW that I like. But I have to say, the world enviornment is not one of them, granted in some areas its really nice,(pre-searing, maguma jungle, and most of nightfall) but for most other areas I cant help but think the devs may have used some kind of "auto painter" for the majority of the lands, I also love to design maps for Bf1942 and Bf2, which makes me feel really critical of texture painting in games after using several different software to try my hardest to make my maps very realistic looking.

In WoW, the way the land is painted and shaped, it really looks way way more realistic in most places, (not just in starter or populated areas), sure the buildings and some of the character's stuff looks cartoony, but the actual world is so real looking, especially when you're soring high up on a gryphon or your flying mount, or standing ontop of a huge mountain that is so tall you cant actually see the ground ( and yes, it will kill you if you fall!) not to mention active day/night cycle and sometimes sunsets and vistas will look different depending on where you are at in the area.

For me, its about immersion, the only area in GW that imo, compares to the immersion of WoW is pre searing ascalon, although the Nightfall chapter comes very close

Now with that said, I must mention this, healing in GW is WAY more challenging and difficult than in WoW ( my priest is level 62 in wow) so Ive healed for all instances up to Underbog, and without a doubt, healing in GW is more fun, and presents a bigger challenge to me, simply put, I love my monk!

past characters for both games include: WoW - 60 hunter, 60 mage(pre TBC) and a 62 priest I am currently working on. GW- 20 ranger, 20 monk, 20 ele, 20 Warrior and a 20 necro

I also have a 1 year old /3 million sp EVE Online character that I play sometimes, (EVE Rocks!!)

Balan Makki · Jan 03, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

A comparison on Class vs Class:

My personal opinion based on Utility, Fun, depth.

GW Warrior > WoW Warrior

GW Paragon(even melee weapon Para) > WoW Paladin

Necro > Warlock

Monk >= Priest

Hunter >= Ranger (depending on spec. Bow physics in GW are far superior--Far!, Pets in WoW are amazing, and almost on par with Heroes. GWs pets should have a Hero like Interface)

Elementalist/Mage, can't comment, haven't played much.

Rogue > Assassin (subjective having played one more than the other.)

Classes Not comparable directly, but comparison based on utility, fun, uniqueness:

Dervish, Ritualist, Mesmer (much) > druid, Shaman (the Dervish and Shaman might be comparable--one on one)

Ever aspect of these non comparable classes have their value, but GW comes out on top.

Dual class system +>>>+ than WoW skill, talent system

Mordakai · Jan 03, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

The ability to easily change your GW character is for sure a huge benefit.

Maybe a WoW player can comment on this, but it does sound like once you've specced your character the way you want, you're pretty much going to be doing the same thing over and over. Then again, one could argue that as long as you're a decent player, it really doesn't matter if you're a W/Ra or W/N.

Personally, I'm an alt lover. I have 13 characters in Guild Wars, which is really unnecessary. So, I figure if I get tired of my Hunter, I'll just make another character, and not worry so much that WoW doesn't have Secondaries like GW.

netniwk · Jan 03, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Maybe a WoW player can comment on this, but it does sound like once you've specced your character the way you want, your pretty much going to be doing the same thing over and over.

you can change your talents for gold,but indeed,99% of the specs play the same.

Bryant Again · Jan 03, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

Engineers got to make bullets, everything else was pretty much a time and money sink for a few laughs.

Not sure what you mean here, but craftable gear is some of the most popular gear worn by 70s. The materials for the stuff are a little tough to get because that stuff will last you a while, all the way even to SSC/TK and after. The weapons for Warriors - Stormherald, Lionheart - are very awesome, even at Tier1, and get to Tier3 and it's just wow.

There are not as many options for skinning as there are for other professions, sure. But it's not like you can't change them, and there's money to be made off of any of them. The only one that's actually not as worth it is engineering, and is one thing many would like Blizz to review.

In terms of the endgame, a big part of it is advancing and progressing your character. I'm going after that loot to be tougher, not just to get that loot. It's the only means of advancement after 70 without an insanely high level cap.

In terms of which is better you can't say that. There are certain qualities that both have that are a little comparable, sure, but there are far too many differences between the two in terms of gameplay and more.

Get WoW if you have a lot of time and want something that'll last awhile, get Guild Wars because it's a great game - not because it's labeled an MMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Maybe a WoW player can comment on this, but it does sound like once you've specced your character the way you want, you're pretty much going to be doing the same thing over and over. Then again, one could argue that as long as you're a decent player, it really doesn't matter if you're a W/Ra or W/N.

Respeccing in WoW starts at 1g and up to 50g if you keep respeccing. While 50g isn't too much (you'll really start rollin' in tha dough in the Outlands), it's still a bit taxing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

you can change your talents for gold,but indeed,99% of the specs play the same.

A DW Fury Warrior is entirely different than an Arms warrior, and an Afllic lock is played very differently than a Demo lock.

As to a class vs. class comparison: Warlock over Necro for the simple fact that Felguards kick ass, Warriors are on a tie, Priests + Pallies > Monks because both can actually do something other than healing, and do it well.

Aerian_Skybane · Jan 03, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I have played GW since first betas, and only recently played WoW to see what it was all about (skipping all the early problems mind you), I was able to quickly see the reason why WoW was more popular. Gear, period. It allows people to have ego and to flaunt it. RPing was a cool idea, and not really feasible in GW, but it gets strained fast. Desire to flaunt your "leet gears" = lots of teenagers, repressed nerds, etc etc playing it. That and Korea's undying love of all things Blizzard, and I think I figured out why its so popular.

I still have more fun in GW than WoW, the biggest thing that pops into my head is the map travelling. GW really ruined stuff like that for me in the spoiled kinda way.

I like gear, but I like skills more. I really don't like comparing GW to WoW because they really are different in a lot of respects, but I am looking forward to GW2 immensely. Hopefully they can keep the same feel as the original while incorporating some more depth in each character, along with some more depth in gear that isn't just vanity. It can be done in a way that is not too grindy, such as a varied gear modifier system, more variance of weapons (instead of just 1-3 types of weapons per class per attribute, which does get redundant), MORE weapon modifiers and stats. This would keep the casual and balanced nature of the game, especially for PvP. Just throwing a ton of skins at us isn't as cool as having truly diverse gear that can be balanced and fair. I don't want to be limited to a standard Sundering _____ of fortitude, having diversity in weapon aqcuisition would really be excellent.

Unfortunately of course I would become hopelessly addicted to that concept much like some of my WoW friends.

Ok now that I have gone on about what is lacking in GW compared to WoW, it does serve a purpose. That to me is the biggest difference between GW and WoW, and is also why both really shouldn't be compared as much as we all try to do.

Either way, whatever you have fun with, it doesn't matter.

Mordakai · Jan 03, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane

I have played GW since first betas, and only recently played WoW to see what it was all about (skipping all the early problems mind you), I was able to quickly see the reason why WoW was more popular. Gear, period. It allows people to have ego and to flaunt it. RPing was a cool idea, and not really feasible in GW, but it gets strained fast. Desire to flaunt your "leet gears" = lots of teenagers, repressed nerds, etc etc playing it. That and Korea's undying love of all things Blizzard, and I think I figured out why its so popular.

Well, flaunting Gear is a goal of many Guild Wars players as well, so I'm not sure you're point is valid. In fact, if all I cared about was armor, I'd play Guild Wars. Your armor doesn't become obsolete with each new expansion!

Which brings me to my point:

I was reading some of the WoW forum, and the idea of Alternative Advancement (like in EverQuest) to replace the ever-increasing level cap.

Without going into too much detail, it seems that after Burning Crusade, the original WoW lands are pretty much obsolete. To be fair, you could make the same argument with Guild Wars: Once you finished Prophecies, there is literally no unique repeatable end game content for it. (Unless people still farm Sorrow's Furnace?)

But it does raise an interesting problem: When will WoW become too bloated? How many expansions and 10 level cap raises (with the appropriate Talent Point increase) can the current meta handle? Eventually, people will max out their talent trees, and then what? Will Blizzard just reset with WoW 2? Any ideas from the WoW players out there?

EDIT: In addition, new players may eventually be turned off by 100+ levels. I'm pretty daunted looking at the level 70 cap, but I understand there's been updates that make it a lot easier to level now. Will future updates after Lich King make it even easier to level to 60?

Balan Makki · Jan 03, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Priests + Pallies > Monks because both can actually do something other than healing, and do it well.

Monks can actually tank very well. . . Yeah, as funny as it sounds.

Pallies are good off-tanks, but stink for DPS. Monks having loads of Holy damage; in certain context have Massive DPS, and both games have no resistance to Holy. Not quite on par with Shadow Priests, even considering conditional shadow resists--depends on dungeon. If you're in a guild that lets players SF during raids, then it's great, but it never happens on the whole. Innervate and auras negate Shadow Priest endgame utility; for Vamp Touch to proc anything worthwhile you'll have to be top on the DPS chart; meaning you've done nothing but collect, fight for, grovel for +shadow gear for more time than it takes to write War and Peace. SW was also too conditional to help out Locks. About the time I'd left WoW SP had received the largest Nerf since their conception.

I'd say Para(s) + Monks > Priests + Paladin(s)

Even a Consecration Pally hardly compares to an Axe Wielding "Fiery Defender" Paragon--everything on fire, with a 30% damage reduction, massive adrenaline gains, and constant AOE axe attacks--best damn tank in GW. (though Destroyers don't burn so it's not recommended against them) I'm not even considering TNTF/SY, add those in and, well. . . Ursan Blessing isn't even comparable.

Then you consider having up to 3 Paragons, A Trinity makes things almost too easy. Paladins have some synergy, but insignificant comparatively. I better keep quiet or they're going to Nerf one of my favorite classes, again.

My mains were Fury Warrior and Shadow Priest,(and a few other classes.) Regarding Fury, it really isn't any different from MS; DPS is a bit higher, but it is all so completely gear dependent, Many times MS Warriors would out DPS Fury, it just really boils down to gear, especially in WoW where nothing is equal. And of course having that silly debuff being in stance sukks gravel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I was reading some of the WoW forum, and the idea of Alternative Advancement (like in EverQuest) to replace the ever-increasing level cap.

Without going into too much detail, it seems that after Burning Crusade, the original WoW lands are pretty much obsolete. To be fair, you could make the same argument with Guild Wars: Once you finished Prophecies, there is literally no unique repeatable end game content for it. (Unless people still farm Sorrow's Furnace?)

But it does raise an interesting problem: When will WoW become too bloated? How many expansions and 10 level cap raises (with the appropriate Talent Point increase) can the current meta handle? Eventually, people will max out their talent trees, and then what? Will Blizzard just reset with WoW 2? Any ideas from the WoW players out there?

EDIT: In addition, new players may eventually be turned off by 100+ levels. I'm pretty daunted looking at the level 70 cap, but I understand there's been updates that make it a lot easier to level now. Will future updates after Lich King make it even easier to level to 60?

This is why I keep claiming Blizzards next big MMO will be a GW Clone.

I'm obviously making a lot of assumptions,

but it's amazing and a shame the effort Blizzard has gone to only to have you never visit those beautiful areas again. GW you can replay many of these areas. Hard Mode, Reroll is quick, then Hard-mode, or just go back in normal mode, it's all designed for the same level.

I'm venturing a guess that MMOs will see the light of Re-playability, and extremely advance and varied Instancing layers on top of that beautiful persistent world. Relieving itemization issues/Balancing issues; freeing up loads of Dev time for Challenge Content, rather than Reward Content--better and more abundant content.

Bryant Again · Jan 03, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

But it does raise an interesting problem: When will WoW become too bloated? How many expansions and 10 level cap raises (with the appropriate Talent Point increase) can the current meta handle? Eventually, people will max out their talent trees, and then what? Will Blizzard just reset with WoW 2? Any ideas from the WoW players out there?

Well, they *do* add new talents to the trees, if that's any comfort. If they didn't then yeah, people'd just max out the trees and it'd be boring.

Not to mention that they're finally starting to implement new Hero classes, so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

EDIT: In addition, new players may eventually be turned off by 100+ levels. I'm pretty daunted looking at the level 70 cap, but I understand there's been updates that make it a lot easier to level now. Will future updates after Lich King make it even easier to level to 60?

Probably. I'd say that they would at one point increase XP rewards from 60-70. Otherwise it could start to get a little crusty for newer players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Monks can actually tank very well. . . Yeah, as funny as it sounds.

Tanking in Guild Wars, regardless of profession, is a waste of a slot. Here's a large thread about it if you're interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Pallies are good off-tanks, but stink for DPS. Monks having loads of Holy damage; in certain context have Massive DPS, and both games have no resistance to Holy.

There may be a few raid bosses where Pally tanking is not so hot, but a Pally MT is still a very viable choice. This guy was able to tank up to Illidan, and he is kickass.

In terms of DPS: Even with all the Ret buffs it's still a bit subpar, but at least they, the Ret pallies, got something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

My mains were Fury Warrior and Shadow Priest,(and a few other classes.) Regarding Fury, it really isn't any different from MS; DPS is a bit higher, but it is all so completely gear dependent, Many times MS Warriors would out DPS Fury, but it really boils down to gear, especially in WoW where nothing is equal. And of course having that silly debuff being in stance sukks gravel.

I'd only go Fury for raids and MS for PvP. Fury DPS is a bit more sustainable in my cases and I usually net 3rd or 2nd in DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

This is why I keep claiming Blizzards next big MMO will be a GW Clone.

I'm obviouly making a lot of assumptions,

but it's amazing the effort Blizzard has gone to only to have you never visit those beautiful areas again. GW you can replay many of these areas. Hard Mode, Reroll is quick, then Hardmode, or just go back in normal mode, it's all designed for the same level.

Enabling a Heroic mode for all of the older instances in WoW would be pretty cool, but a lot of hard work. I'd much rather they work on newer areas and content than invest a lot of time on the older ones. I'd say maybe in the far future that they consider implementing this. But until than I just want them to work on Northerend and all the other new areas they want us to visit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I'm venturing a guess that MMOs will see the light of Replayability, and extremely advance and varied Instancing layers on top of that beautiful persistent world. Relieving itemization issues, balance issues, freeing up loads of Dev time for Challenge Content, rather than Reward Content.

Reward content has always been a valued feature even much more before WoW. It's also a reason that a lot of people in GW aren't terribly excited in picking up rare weapons.

Aerian_Skybane · Jan 03, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Mordakai, the extent to which people "flaunt" their "gear" in GW is insignificant compared to what I have been subject to in WoW. I am not bashing it, but WoW is a game where items are the goal. Its just different than Guild Wars. I started getting sick of the game after doing four (kill X baddies and return me Y pelts of X baddie) quests in three hours time, then getting back, and someone consistently make fun of my noob armor.

At level 10.

And they are 60....

And then they follow me around and ruin the game for me. Consistently saying I am too noob for a noob area.

I get very frustrated by that, and its not just one isolated instance. This is my third attempt at the game, and I just fail to enjoy it personally. At least in Diablo (which has the same type of gearism), you were instanced, and gear really only mattered to your friends. Guild Wars has it in towns, but I don't spend much time in town, so I really don't get bothered by the rare occurance of a "noob-sayer". They don't relate in my personal opinion, beyond aesthetic and logistical similarities.

Then subjectively, I can only take WoW graphics for so long. After a while to me they bland out and the intitial wow (no WoW lol) factor is gone. They were smart to do cartoon WC3 style graphics (which I have personally been sad about, the cinematics are so inverted and cooler imho), since that promotes engine longevity, and therefore WoW can keep making money for Blizzard while dating slower. But personally, I can't take it.

Oh and as for story? Please, it is skeletal at best, not really providing more content on top of what is is built on. Historical lore and coolness of interacting in the Warcraft environment? Uber-awesome! But its own story-line is very weak to me. Not that I think Guild Wars has some substantial amount of story-line either, but cmon, stop arguing that either is better, because they both have minimal story. Lore (for both) and history (in WoWs case) yes, but not story.

Balan Makki · Jan 03, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Dynamic Vs Static and Level Vs No-level, So much to explore as a basis for content and character advancement. Rewards are also an interesting subject, what constitutes Reward. GW2 Access to more Persistent World may be a form of reward, where more advanced, difficult dungeons, more unique skills, and items are found. I'm really interested to see How Arena Net is going to handle GW2. More WoW like, or Less WoW like(more GW1 Like). Time will tell.

Fril Estelin · Jan 03, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

A bunch of unrelated comments:

1) Very interestingly, this thread does not focus so much about support as the previous one (that ended up closed):
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10179774

2) Insane situation where a couple of 2 WoW players control 46 accounts from the same "control center":
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/a-real-ra...tup-275902.php
http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=498
I guess that it's always possible in any MMO but only the scale of WoW and its business create a situation where people go to such extremes (yes boxing existed long before WoW).

3) For me, one of the most straightforward reason for not even trying WoW is its average software architecture/design, as illustrated by:
http://www.news.com/No-end-in-sight-...3-6174704.html

Even if the article is more than 6 months old, it's interesting to see that the risk of a Credit card is worth 6$ while the one associated to a Wow account is 10$. And there's the mention of the Warden (it's funny to think that people will not accept trusted computing and yet relish their rights with such a program; I guess the value of WoW is worth more to the vast majority of people than Blizzard possibly spying on them):

Blizzard spokesperson Shon Damron said the company recommends using the Blizzard Launcher, a console that delivers WoW news and at the same time runs a scan of players' computers. If it finds something amiss, it alerts the player.

Bryant Again · Jan 03, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane

Mordakai, the extent to which people "flaunt" their "gear" in GW is insignificant compared to what I have been subject to in WoW. I am not bashing it, but WoW is a game where items are the goal. Its just different than Guild Wars. I started getting sick of the game after doing four (kill X baddies and return me Y pelts of X baddie) quests in three hours time, then getting back, and someone consistently make fun of my noob armor.

Elitism in Guild Wars is annoying as hell. For some reason I don't get a whole lot of this in WoW, but it's very apparent in Guild Wars. I can't even begin to count how many times I've been /laughed it or cussed out at for wearing FoW armor, or how many times I've had a title out and see someone with a R6 KoaBD or something title circle around me or try to get my attention. And let's not even go into the /rank business...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Dynamic Vs Static and Level Vs No-level, So much to explore as a basis for content and character advancement. Rewards are also an interesting subject, what constitutes Reward. GW2 Access to more Persistent World may be a form of reward, where more advanced, difficult dungeons, more unique skills, and items are found.

In terms of reward, I guess I meant in the term of item drops. Rare weapons don't have much of an appeal in Guild Wars. Shiro's sword - the same sword wielded by Shiro himself! - has no more damage than your normal crafted weapon.

Make no mistake: If there are rare and powerful weapons to be found, a lot of people are gonna explore them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I'm really interested to see How Arena Net is going to handle GW2. More WoW like, or Less WoW like(more GW1 Like). Time will tell.

What we do know so far is as follows:

Soloability-ANet has stated that you won't need a party for anything in GW2. You can do the entire game by yourself.

Level Cap and Balancing - There could be the possibility of having an unlimited level cap and a flattened power curve (meaning a lvl 50 character will be stronger than a level 10 character, but a lvl 100 character would be marginally stronger than a lvl 50 character.) This isn't a problem because A. Your abilites, stats, etc. would be balanced to a cap if you wish to PvP and B. Characters that are below your level will be buffed accordingly to match your level.

For example: You're level 74, your friend is level 14. He will be buffed up in a sense to be as strong as a level 74.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

2) Insane situation where a couple of 2 WoW players control 46 accounts from the same "control center":
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/a-real-ra...tup-275902.php
http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=498
I guess that it's always possible in any MMO but only the scale of WoW and its business create a situation where people go to such extremes (yes boxing existed long before WoW).

Some people are indeed that dedicated.

I find it hilarious when people complain about how "unfair" it is that one guy is controlling a whole raid. Well let's see: 46 accounts = $690 a month. Then factor in all the technical costs and that equals to about $HOLYSHIT.99.

*shrug* I'd say it's fair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

3) For me, one of the most straightforward reason for not even trying WoW is its average software architecture/design, as illustrated by:
http://www.news.com/No-end-in-sight-...3-6174704.html

Ah yes, the keyloggers. You'll find them most prominent on the WoW forums, which is why you do NOT click any links there unless it's worded with proper english and/or from a friend. Even then should you not click on any links.

Fril Estelin · Jan 03, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Elitism in Guild Wars is annoying as hell. For some reason I don't get a whole lot of this in WoW, but it's very apparent in Guild Wars. I can't even begin to count how many times I've been /laughed it or cussed out at for wearing FoW armor, or how many times I've had a title out and see someone with a R6 KoaBD or something title circle around me or try to get my attention.

This is not elitist behaviour, this is stupidity based on pseudo-superiority or bragging. It's people talking and you're not really affected (I mean, apart from the ego, which is understandable as it's their goal).

Quote:

And let's not even go into the /rank business...

This is elitism indeed. But I guess WoW has the same thing at the level of raids, doesn't it? Or may be you don't have the first part above (let's call it bragging) as people don't loose the time to talk and they instead disregard you?

It'd be great if before the "end" of this thread, we could touch upon the difference between the two player communities (it does seem right as you said that it's mostly GW players talking about comparisons with WoW, but at the same time it's a healthy thing to do on a forum like GWG, isn't it?)

Aerian_Skybane · Jan 03, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

My major point Bryant is (I well assume some people have come across elitism in GW) that it is not avoidable in WoW. GW is an instanced game, if you want to avoid the elitist bullcrap, do what the game was meant to do and play it!

I personally haven't had an issue other than a few instances of elitism in GW, and I do pretty much everything. I consistently try to get into WoW, but I just don't feel like spending my free time dealing with the never ending stream of fetch quests followed by lvl 60 insults.

Bryant Again · Jan 03, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

This is not elitist behaviour, this is stupidity based on pseudo-superiority or bragging. It's people talking and you're not really affected (I mean, apart from the ego, which is understandable as it's their goal).

If they're saying something negative and hurtful, it's hard not to be affected or annoyed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

]This is elitism indeed. But I guess WoW has the same thing at the level of raids, doesn't it? Or may be you don't have the first part above (let's call it bragging) as people don't loose the time to talk and they instead disregard you?

Dunno. I personally don't know a whole lot of people on any of my servers that've had this kind of "elitist asshole" harassment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

It'd be great if before the "end" of this thread, we could touch upon the difference between the two player communities

There are too many sub communities within both of the games that it's too broad to compare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

(it does seem right as you said that it's mostly GW players talking about comparisons with WoW, but at the same time it's a healthy thing to do on a forum like GWG, isn't it?)

Could you be a little more specific?

j15x · Jan 03, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Good overall post. I was a top hunter on Onyxia and then Korgath (all the way to Illidan, but during the summer, with some of the top guilds in the game.) Full T5 2/6 T6, archimonde bow never dropped for me, and we never downed illidan before we broke up.

Having seen all of the pre-BC content as well as ALL of the BC content, SSC, TK, all of Hyjal, and into illidan, I would say that what it really comes down to is that you get what you pay for, unfortunately you still pay a lot for guild wars.

The monthly subscription is something that I would more than welcome for in-game Game Masters and the content delivery that WoW had.

Guild Wars is a GREAT game for a casual player, but there really isn't a drive for exotic things. Sure you could aim for FoW armor, but then what? Your gear doesn't make you stand out past that, and you don't get better by progressing through more difficult content. Everything, for the most part, is homogeneous. There is no excitement factor that WoW had when Kael'thas finally drops the sword, or when you grab your first piece of T6. Sure you look sexy with FoW, but thats merely it.

I think your guild descriptions is somewhat lacking. The WoW guild system is FAR superior to the Guild Wars one, which is utterly ironic. I played guild wars for months and never once joined a guild. In WoW, we had a guild that was ALWAYS on vent, always communicating, and in a wierd way there were real friendships formed. This came out of our reliance on eachother to perform well in high-intensity raiding situations.

If I am missing out on this please let me know which guilds to join =).