Curse

Age · Jan 01, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Zinger314Back in 2003, one member of the MTGO community mentioned a new game called Guild Wars that had a free beta test (the very old one, where the game started out at Gates of Kryta). Curious, I checked it out. It crashed my computer (integrated graphics chip FTL), so I didn’t think too much into it.

It never started at The Gates Kryta it is started in Lions Gate where you went to get your first weapon.

Balan Makki · Jan 01, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Short reply here (so that the thread is not hijacked): it would be much more difficult than you think, because there's an obvious balance to maintain in order to run the system efficiently and at a controlled cost (the only way Anet can maintain the no-monthly-fee). Anyway, it does make a lot of sense as you explain.

Check the "GW2 suggestion thread" starting here. And here. See the rest of the thread for more in-depth discussion on the Evolution of Instancing. I've further posts, a few more in there, discussing this very idea. We might just be second guessing Arena Net. Seems like the logical evolution for GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

Players enjoy WoW because of the high levels and larger reliance on gear - and that's why they're a bit disappointed when they come to GW. It's not that it's reliance of skill over gear, it's the fact that there's *no* reliance on gear. It's why I don't call GW an MMO: It has little to appeal to that audience.

Yes and No, I think you're still dealing with the Smelly Old Shoe syndrome--it's just what you/they've grown used too. It's my opinion, for good or bad, that GW is riding, Somewhat, on the coat-tails of WoW. (Riding Coat-Tails = benifiting from WoW.) WoW is introducing untold amounts of players to the MMO industry, but then most of them being casual they realize the required commitment for WoW is too much and they ultimately find their way here /raisehand. . . (or in your friends case Oblivion--his loss, ooh such hate, one too many bans I'd venture. 4 you say?)

I think what Arena Net offers as an alternative is leading to a style of gaming unknown in the MMO industry.

Blizzards next MMO will be a GW/GW2 Clone. Without a doubt.

Bryant Again · Jan 01, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

It's my opinion, for good or bad, that GW is riding, Somewhat, on the coat-tails of WoW.

Lineage 1 and 2 are more successful than GW. ANet still has got a way to go before they're second in line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

...or in your friends case Oblivion--his loss

He wanted a game that still had consistent gear, a good level cap, and end-game. Guild Wars doesn't have any of that, hence why I did not recommend it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makk

ooh such hate, one too many bans I'd venture. 4 you say?

One for UW farming, one for ring farming, one for using Texmod and one for...Damn, I don't remember anymore.

And no, I'm not hating on the game. I would not be on these forums and - believe it or not - defending GW in numerous cases. To say that I hate it is pretty insulting. If you have to resort to such claims in an argument, then please say nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I think what Arena Net offers as an alternative is leading to a style of gaming unknown in the MMO industry.

Party-based role-playing? That's a style that's been around in computer game since DnD hit the PC. The only difference in Guild Wars is that you can't play offline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makk

Blizzards next MMO will be a GW/GW2 Clone. Without a doubt.

Again, I ask: if WoW will be taking off of GW, then why is GW2 going to be taking off of WoW, as so many have claimed?

Terraban · Jan 01, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Again, I ask: if WoW will be taking off of GW, then why is GW2 going to be taking off of WoW, as so many have claimed?

Because....
Peanut Butter sandwiches are good
Jelly sandwiches are good

If you put jelly on the Peanut Butter sandwich, it is better
If you put peanut butter on the jelly sandwich, it is better.

English Warrior · Jan 01, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Too be blatently honest WoW and GW are too different too compare now.

Cacheelma · Jan 02, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Blizzards next MMO will be a GW/GW2 Clone. Without a doubt.

...I somehow doubt that they'll be as blind, or stupid.

After all, why make a game that is a clone of something LESS POPULAR than the one of your own?

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

...I somehow doubt that they'll be as blind, or stupid.

After all, why make a game that is a clone of something LESS POPULAR than the one of your own?

Less overhead and grind, about ten times the content. This would likely make WoW far more popular.

Tozen · Jan 02, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I haven't read all of the pages of posts yet (and I will, I promise), but I think the biggest difference between the two games hasn't been looked at at all... instance vs persistence!

Without writing a detailed analysis of my own, I think GW is superior to WoW in every way except for the fact that it can be a very lonely experience. I like the fact that in WoW you can run into other players and form "friendships" that last for some time in-game.

Mhenlo never talks back... he just fails to heal me. I yell at him to play better, and he stays silent. This is why I think that GW2 is going to be such an amazing game... GW1 + Persistence.

Cacheelma · Jan 02, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Less overhead and grind, about ten times the content.

LESS POPULAR.

As I said, not as blind, or stupid.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 02, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Anet is not trying to make an Everquest style game with Guild Wars 2.

I'm not sure why people are saying that when all I've seen is...
1. Persistent non-instanced and instanced zones.
2. Racial choices.
3. Jumping, swimming, climbing.
3. Companion system. Where you can use it or get a boost in stats if you don't.
4. Emergent Skill system. Where skills are context sensitive depending on what action you are doing when used.
5. Continual world events changing the persistent zones. The interview example of a big dragon players can all fight together or it destroys a major bridge and then players can choose to help fix it.
6. Characters becoming max level and having all skills unlocked when entering the mists for world PvP.
7. High level cap or no level cap still up in the air.

I haven't seen any indication that Guild Wars 2 will have...
1. 2 player factions each with their own races and classes.
2. PvP only available when your rpg character reaches level X.
3. Auctions houses/mounts/trade skills/epics/griffon travel/airships/whatever.
4. Tank, healer, dps game play relying on taunts, de-aggros and hate lists.
5. Upgrading skills when they become obsolete as you level.
6. Information as to whether Guild Wars 2 will use main storylines similar to how Guild Wars did.

Plus in that one interview Strain said he's not making another WoW.
Doesn't care to, as that's Blizzards job.
He's said he is more interested in developers trying different things. Making games where players don't have to pick just one and don't have to pay a fee.
My observations lead me to believe he sees no benefit in developers trying to monopolize the genre as players marrying any game hurts the industry.

Guild Wars was Anet's first attempt at making an online rpg. It didn't follow the regular mmorpg conventions, yet it's done well enough to warrant another stab in the continued effort to try something different.
Honestly everyone, I would try to be thankful that there are developers who wish to see the online rpg genre include differently designed games for everyone to enjoy. I really doubt anyone here is going to want to play the same game forever, nor do I believe they will wish to play other games if they are all basically following the same design of the one they stopped playing.

So, I'll end just by saying that if Strain decides to make a WoW 2 or Everquest 3, I'll be shocked off my rocker.

netniwk · Jan 02, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

LESS POPULAR.

As I said, not as blind, or stupid.

If they make it it will probably be as popular as Wow,I don't think they will make a Gw2 clone though.

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Anet is not trying to make an Everquest style game with Guild Wars 2.
.

I could be wrong, but the fact that so little is known and said about GW2 might indicate it will be Revolutionary, rather than evolutionary. Arena Net might be sorting out the viability of a Revolutionary New Tech. Tossing out the Smelly Old Shoe called Evercrack, best exemplified in WoW-- once and for all. Opting for Tons of content and far less grind.

I'm staying extremely positive that it will be nothing like WoW in it's core design, but far better--much like GW with every inovative system fully explored and fully matured. GW1 was just a seed of an idea, I'd hope they're moving on to a full blown forest for GW2.

Of course there may be loads of "feature for feature" crossover, Mounts, Auction Houses etc. Arena Net has a much different outlook on core systems. Exemplified by: "You've Been Playing for Two hours Please Take a Break." Concerns like this are unheard of in the MMO industry, and means more than most realize. I am so thankful there is an alternative to Evercrack I can't say enough good things about it.

You'll still get people who like to wear Old Shoes, because it's what they've grown comfortable with. Hell, Arena Net knew this going into GW1 with it's Token 1-20 levels.

There is still lots to be gleaned from WoW and it's old-school RPG systems, or beautifully developed sub features, but it would be 4 steps back for GW2 to try and follow in it's footsteps.

freekedoutfish · Jan 02, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

You will have to add hellgate london to your list of comparisons (IMO), because its a pretty decent game and likely to challenge both GWs and WoW, especially having a free to play side. Its stopped me playing GWs for a few weeks now inplace of HGL!

Free to play or subscription - your choice!
Slightly better graphics then both GWs and WoW.
A first person shooter perspective which works and feels cool.
Fast action!
A futuristic setting which makes a nice change from fantasy.
Randomised zones which work pretty well, so you never truly know what to face.
A reasonably simple interface.
The ability to customise any armor with random bonuses for a fee.

The list goes on! Its hardly a perfect game, and still being patched and its no where as big as GWs or WoW at the minute and you likely have to subcribe to get more content, but its a nice change from both.

Alot of people rave about how they used to play Diablo in here and loved it. If thats the case, they will like HGL and we may loose players.

tmr819 · Jan 02, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You will have to add hellgate london to your list of comparisons (IMO), because its a pretty decent game and likely to challenge both GWs and WoW, especially having a free to play side. Its stopped me playing GWs for a few weeks now inplace of HGL!

You might be interested in this comparison of GW and Hellgate: London thread, then.

Mordakai · Jan 02, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Confession Time

I just bought WoW Battle Chest. I got a $25 gift card to Gamestop for Christmas, saw the Battle Chest was $30 (that's both WoW and Burning Crusade, plus guides). Time will tell if WoW is worth the $12.99 - $15.99 monthly, but for now, I'm enjoying WoW immensily.

I've only been playing for a few hours (almost have my Dwarven Hunter up to level 10), but already I sense that WoW is a much deeper game than Guild Wars. And by "deeper" I mean more things to do: Professions really help WoW. I love mining, creating stuff with engineering, and then there's fishing, cooking, first aid, etc. While some will view this as just another "grind," I don't view it that way. I don't set off to mine, but if I see a vein on the way to a quest, I'll hit it.

The only thing I really miss about Guild Wars right now is the Quest arrows. I've gotten so spoiled with being shown exactly where to go to complete a quest and get back, that I sometimes get a little frustrated remembering who I need to talk to. (to be clear, the minimap shows exclamation points and question marks for quests, but if thy're are not on your minimap, there's no arrow guiding you in the proper direction.) Of course, there could be a way to show this stuff that I don't know about (if a WoWer wants to advise me on this, pm me!)

To be clear: I still love Guild Wars, and don't plan to stop playing it, and it's way too early to tell if WoW will hold my interest for a year, or simply be a passing flirtation. But for $30, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to find out.

Also, a hint for those moving from Guild Wars to WoW: change your settings so you will automatically run to NPCs when right-clicked on, and to automatically pick up loot.

Zhack · Jan 02, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I think it's interesting how so many people think that WoW is what defines MMORPG's just because it have all the classical elements and are the largest one.
WoW is basically a mix and match between all the previous classical MMORPG's, the developers even said when they where developing it that they would take what was good in the genre and try to improve upon that.
So when people are yelling about gw2 being a wow clone, it's rather that gw2 take a few elements from the classical MMORPG genre because they WORK.
It's not like WoW created the classic MMORPG genre, just copied it and adapted it to the warcraft world...

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Confession Time

I've only been playing for a few hours (almost have my Dwarven Hunter up to level 10), but already I sense that WoW is a much deeper game than Guild Wars. And by "deeper" I mean more things to do: Professions really help WoW. I love mining, creating stuff with engineering, and then there's fishing, cooking, first aid, etc. While some will view this as just another "grind," I don't view it that way. I don't set off to mine, but if I see a vein on the way to a quest, I'll hit it.

You're definately going to get your moneys worth, lvl 1-60(60-70) is unsurpassed as far as classic MMOs go. Even early PvP is very good. Try the lvl 29 PvP Bracket, and collect some nice gear rewards before you lvl to 30. Hunters do well there. If you find a great guild you'll be in for a great time, but regardless, even if you solo, you'll have tons to do. Lvl 1-60 there is absolutely no resource pressure, or over farming issues. End game is where you'll start compairing GW vs WoW, and where you will start to contrast their respective value. But you're a long way off from End-Game Months and months, so have fun, but don't let it take over your life, WoW has mastered addictive game-play.

Bryant Again · Jan 02, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I'm staying extremely positive that it will be nothing like WoW in it's core design, but far better--much like GW with every inovative system fully explored and fully matured. GW1 was just a seed of an idea, I'd hope they're moving on to a full blown forest for GW2.

There is little in Guild Wars that I'd consider truly "innovative." The instancing is cool but it makes the game feel more like Diablo than anything else. The combat and skill set-up is cool, sure, and that's what I'd consider truly different. But in terms of being a "revolutionary MMO" I would have to disagree. In order to start something revolutionary, you'd need a good audience - and what I mean is that it has to be successful in MMO terms. And as I've mentioned above, it does not have much of an audience in that sense. Can't make much of a splash when no one's watching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Tossing out the Smelly Old Shoe called Evercrack, best exemplified in WoW-- once and for all. Opting for Tons of content and far less grind.

I'm interested in why you keep mentioning this "tons of content" thing? It's kind of a given that there *should* be lots of content if you want to keep people happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I am so thankful there is an alternative to Evercrack I can't say enough good things about it.

There's been alternatives for it for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhack

I think it's interesting how so many people think that WoW is what defines MMORPG's just because it have all the classical elements and are the largest one.
WoW is basically a mix and match between all the previous classical MMORPG's, the developers even said when they where developing it that they would take what was good in the genre and try to improve upon that.
So when people are yelling about gw2 being a wow clone, it's rather that gw2 take a few elements from the classical MMORPG genre because they WORK.
It's not like WoW created the classic MMORPG genre, just copied it and adapted it to the warcraft world...

Everything is compared to WoW because it is by far and wide the best. There are still a lot of other good games out there besides WoW, but WoW has the most features, most well-tuned, and most fun. It sure hasn't thought of anything revolutionary, but it's implemented everything in an incredibly well-designed fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Confession Time

I just bought WoW Battle Chest. I got a $25 gift card to Gamestop for Christmas, saw the Battle Chest was $30 (that's both WoW and Burning Crusade, plus guides). Time will tell if WoW is worth the $12.99 - $15.99 monthly, but for now, I'm enjoying WoW immensily.

Rather than have you dread the end-game, I'd rather you look forward to it. The Outlands (the place you can go to at 58) are really cool to explore in, with some awesome skyboxes and detail. The quests are much more varied and a little more fun. Getting to 70 is awesome because you can buy your flying mounts.

In regards to raids, it's gonna depend on how much time you can spare and/or how much time you can make available. It also depends greatly on the guild your in. I can't comment a whole lot more because I don't know the longest you've played Guild Wars for in one night or your personal life.

What server are you on, by the way?

Mordakai · Jan 02, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

What server are you on, by the way?

Thanks for the tips, at the moment I'm excited enough about getting to level 10 (my first pet!) But a mount is definately one of the perks of WoW.

I'm in Skywall, IGN Lugh. But don't bother whispering at the moment, I'm on a trial account, and can't whisper back. (I'm such a cheapskate). I'll upgrade to full membership on January 12, however.

(I was going to PM you all this info, but your storage is full!

)

Balan Makki · Jan 02, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I'm interested in why you keep mentioning this "tons of content" thing? It's kind of a given that there *should* be lots of content if you want to keep people happy.

Content in WoW is A Massive GRIND of a few dungeons at endgame. You are ignoring the obvious even though it seems to be a redundant theme throughout this post, Just go back and read why most people find WoW a bore at Endgame. It's an Idiot's Gerbil Wheel, sure the lore is cool, but doing it once, or twice is . . oh for godz sakes are you even paying attention? You obviously do not want to understand, that's fine.

WoW's Evercrack model is a dying dog, regardless of how "good", addicting it is, you'll get a few more years out of it that's about it.

For most players once they have given GW a try, there's just no comparison. It is obviously the reason you send your friends elsewhere, Oblivion etc. . . you don't have to dance around it, your reasons are transparent. GW is gaining fast, could be it will even catch up by the time GW2 Releases. Especially once Arena Net starts their GW2's add campaign. More people are leaving WoW and joining GW than the other way around, and for very good reasons. Ergo this thread. And this thread. (Addiction Withdraws) I don't think your kind of damage control is going to work.