Curse

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

(Though I think it would be a good idea if WoW went from a monthly fee, to a system where you paid for time you spent online.)
.

Brilliant idea, and it would likely make Blizz much more money, being that some players have played a full year+ in hours 365 x 24 = Cash Cow Baby!!

It would also help reduce the addiction issues, though I do see folks spend their whole pay check playing the lotteries, maybe it wouldn't help.

Taurucis · Dec 31, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Maybe it's the server you played on, or the time of day? Your location says "Belgium". Well, I'm in America...

Again, I only played on Malfurion, so I can't make statements on the other servers.

@Balan: I have heard the lottery referred to as "The Idiot Tax"

Shuuda · Dec 31, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

PvP: It's a tie. I've only played Battlegrounds and Dueling for WoW. I mostly AB in Guild Wars, though I have dabbled in HA and done some casual GvG. With GvG and HA, it's the flavor of the month build that wins... there's not much variety, and it boils down to whichever team slips up first. Battlegrounds and ABs are both incredibly chaotic. There's people running around like maniacs, ignoring the mission objectives, trash talking (infighting for WoW), leeches, and newbies who have no clue what's going on. Both, however, are really fun. While I prefer that WoW has larger amounts of players in the match, I also think that GW's short AB matches are a benefit.

How can PvP in these game possibly be a tie, but then again, just like the OP, you don't really have a strong bases to argue on this subject? GW clearly has better PvP. Like you said, GW is better balanced, resulting in much (for the most part) fairer PvP. From what I've seen, the skill needed to win real PvP in GW is worlds further ahead than WoW.

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

@Balan: I have heard the lottery referred to as "The Idiot Tax"

Taxssechussets, much like Blizzard, encourages Addiction. I guess it's just another twist in life that seperates the weak from the strong.

netniwk · Dec 31, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Maybe it's the server you played on, or the time of day? Your location says "Belgium". Well, I'm in America...

Again, I only played on Malfurion, so I can't make statements on the other servers.

I don't think the European servers are hosted on the same place as the American.....

Darkobra · Dec 31, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Here's a little something to get the thread rolling.

WoW music or GW music? Both of them definitely have amazing music. Jeremy Soule's compositions are absolutely amazing. Great music, sets the theme.

But WoW music definitely fits the land at parts. Eye of the North actually mastered a balance between the combat music and travelling music while Nightfall was just BAM! BATTLE MUSIC! BAM! TRAVEL! I hated Nightfall's music. Prophecies was the best for actually doing what WoW accomplished with music fitting the scene.

Factions was not bad at the start. Actually had an Asian setting. Maps were terrible so it was quite hard to work around.

Some areas in WoW, the music actually changes a bit too much for my liking around the lands. Ashenvale being a great example when travelling from Splinterwood to Blackfathom deeps. Haunting alto singers, and a few steps later, African tribe drums.

People like consistency in the themes when in a wide area; not having it change every 30 seconds.

Shuuda · Dec 31, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Wouldn't Server quality in WoW depend on the server your on?

Taurucis · Dec 31, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

How can PvP in these game possibly be a tie, but then again, just like the OP, you don't really have a strong bases to argue on this subject? GW clearly has better PvP. Like you said, GW is better balanced, resulting in much (for the most part) fairer PvP. From what I've seen, the skill needed to win real PvP in GW is worlds further ahead than WoW.

That's why I only mentioned WoW battlegrounds and GW ABs. I don't really play the higher end pvp (WoW arenas, GW HA and GvG) so I didn't include them. I based my PvP verict on battlegrounds and ABs.

Would you rather I pull a verdict randomly from a hat, judging arenas, HA, and GvG although I don't know them well?

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

WoW music or GW music?

I love the music in both games. I do hum GW stuff while at work or driving or find it playing in my head when I wake some mornings(a good thing imo), can't say that ever happend in WoW. As well I've considered buying GW music, never thought of that for WoW.

WoW seems to have more atmosphere, much like the air you can see or the shadows you can't, you do feel it, you do sense it.

GW presents it's music like a hollywood score, Out of Africa dramatics.

They're both exceptionally handled.

chitown girl · Dec 31, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Quests/Story

The most professional Arena format is 5 v 5 (there are 2 v 2, and 3 v 3, but they are somewhat unfair) The main difference between GW and WoW’s PvP is that WoW has much more active spells (i.e. no powerful Hexes, no Protection tree) and powerful crowd control (i.e. affected target can’t do anything). To combat the potential imbalance, PvPers can obtain an item (known as “the trinket”) which breaks all incapacitating effects (CCs and snares) once every two minutes. With the lesser amount of players, individual skill is key.

Not having spells that completely freeze an enemy is a feature of guild wars. Especially because you have 8man pvp in most cases. However, there are ways of shutting someone down without a single spell, and it requires skill and experience. It also requires skill and experience to avoid being shut down, while waiting for a spell to wear off includes no skill whatsoever.

In reference to PvE and groups, I have only used "Ursan Blessing" in the mission that requires it's use (Blood Washes Blood, I think), and It's not too hard to find decent groups for pve. It only requires a friend's list/guild, maybe a few pugs, and fill in the extra spots with heroes.

Also, something to add to your comparisons, the fact that once you leave a town in Guild Wars, your party gets it's own area. I like this for two reasons, the first being that you don't have to compete for enemies. The second reason is explained through an experience I had within 24 hours of starting WoW. Being a female gamer, I made a female character and found myself with a 13 year old kid following me around asking questions like "how old r u?!," "where r u going?! what r u doing?!," "help me with quest pl0x!," "you r a gurl u r so coooooll!!!" In guild wars it's slightly easier to avoid people like that because they can't follow you into an area if you don't let them in your group.

tmr819 · Dec 31, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitown girl

The second reason is explained through an experience I had within 24 hours of starting WoW. Being a female gamer, I made a female character and found myself with a 13 year old kid following me around asking questions like "how old r u?!," "where r u going?! what r u doing?!," "help me with quest pl0x!," "you r a gurl u r so coooooll!!!" In guild wars it's slightly easier to avoid people like that because they can't follow you into an area if you don't let them in your group.

Sniff. Now, I'm getting nostalgic for WoW.

/sarcasm off

In truth, my fondest hope is that GW2 might actually offer players an option to play a given region as either instanced or persistent, with mob/loot scaling and/or henches/heroes, etc., to match whatever playstyle choice you make. Such an approach would offer the best of both worlds, allowing players to play GW2 as primarily instanced, primarily noninstanced, or any combination thereof -- much the way GW1 can be played solo, with a full group of 8 players, or with a range of combinations in between. This is not likely to happen, I know, but still...

Shuuda · Dec 31, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Quests/Story

The most professional Arena format is 5 v 5 (there are 2 v 2, and 3 v 3, but they are somewhat unfair) The main difference between GW and WoW’s PvP is that WoW has much more active spells (i.e. no powerful Hexes, no Protection tree) and powerful crowd control (i.e. affected target can’t do anything). To combat the potential imbalance, PvPers can obtain an item (known as “the trinket”) which breaks all incapacitating effects (CCs and snares) once every two minutes. With the lesser amount of players, individual skill is key.

A few things you may wish to note.

1) Real PvP in GW require team work skill, which at the end of the day, is more challenging and more skillful than individual skill. Teamwork requires good commication and greater planning.

2) Being good in GW PvP relies on being Proactive instead of reactive. For example, Proting in this game takes more skill, and gets better results than simply pushing up red bars with healing (which is what monking is in other games), and the fact that skills like Diversion and Shame being far better for Mesmers than simply interrupting. Being reactive takes little skill, other than being able to press a button when you see something happen. Being Proactive requires on to think, and predict, looking for patterns or other signs in the enemies movements.

3) The one thing that above all, that makes PvP in GW far far far far far better than in WoW. PvP Characters, altough not perfect, this was by far the best thing A-net has ever done to reduce grinding.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Here's a little something to get the thread rolling.

WoW music or GW music? Both of them definitely have amazing music. Jeremy Soule's compositions are absolutely amazing. Great music, sets the theme.

But WoW music definitely fits the land at parts. Eye of the North actually mastered a balance between the combat music and travelling music while Nightfall was just BAM! BATTLE MUSIC! BAM! TRAVEL! I hated Nightfall's music. Prophecies was the best for actually doing what WoW accomplished with music fitting the scene.

Factions was not bad at the start. Actually had an Asian setting. Maps were terrible so it was quite hard to work around.

Some areas in WoW, the music actually changes a bit too much for my liking around the lands. Ashenvale being a great example when travelling from Splinterwood to Blackfathom deeps. Haunting alto singers, and a few steps later, African tribe drums.

People like consistency in the themes when in a wide area; not having it change every 30 seconds.

In terms of "what I'd rather listen to before I go to sleep", I'd go with WoW. The soundtrack has some pretty epic themes in it. I remember entering Ogrimmar and literally going "holy shit", the huge drums bangin' in mine ears.

And I RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hate the battle music in GW. I literally have to stop moving and not do anything for me to truly appreciate it.

In regards to the PvP debate, it depends. In terms of casualness, both are about the same. In terms of high-end, Guild Wars wins. But like WoW, it takes a lot of time and dedication to actually get to the goods. That's probably my favorite thing to compare about both of them: It takes a lot of time to get into what's best.

Darkobra · Dec 31, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

I like how WoW also has singers, which GW tends to lack. Then again, with Jeremy's contrapuntal style, it's not really needed. Lament of the Highborne is absolutely amazing and caught me off guard when I found the amulet.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Ah man, such a sad, sad quest...

Darkobra · Dec 31, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Beautiful video for it, too. Bastard Lich King.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 31, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yeah, pretty much like homing missiles.

Seriously? Is it the arrows or the bow? *lol* I'm getting WoW soon and my toon uses a crossbow in some cases.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

Seriously? Is it the arrows or the bow? *lol* I'm getting WoW soon and my toon uses a crossbow in some cases.

The arrows. You won't notice it on monsters too much since they're mostly stationary.

It's done like such because there's a miss value, so when you miss it really does miss. It's pretty tricky to still make look good, it's fine as is for me.

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In regards to the PvP debate, it depends. In terms of casualness, both are about the same. In terms of high-end, Guild Wars wins. But like WoW, it takes a lot of time and dedication to actually get to the goods. That's probably my favorite thing to compare about both of them: It takes a lot of time to get into what's best.

One of the first comments I made on this forum a while back was about GW and casual PvP. It was actually hard to casually participate the way you can in WoW. PuGing it WoW was really a lot of fun, PuGing in GW for the first time is very daunting and actually requires very solid player skill to pull it off. Not enough wiggle room for NooBs such as I was at the time. As well GW large arena "Alliance Battles" was not as PuG friendly, being you needed a party going in, not very viable if you didn't have loads of time. Of course lots of this relates to the very solid, refined structure Arena Net has created for GW PvP. The large arena is the one you want to encourage new players PuGing within, it helps displace the load of inexperience a bit. I still don't AB much because it takes time dragging a team together from the guild or alliance. FA is a great example of a mini game, but it just barely compares to WSG, in it's rhythm and tempo--fun once in a while--but not quite an epic battleground, should have been three times the size with twice the players, with few more strategic obstacle/defense points. And a hero auto join/kick routine that completely removes queue waits. When comparing AB with AB: you actually know where you're going in Arathi Basin. Alliance battle are rather helter-skelter, seems some of the areas should have much stronger thematic differentiations and focus.

But, once again, on a whole, WoW fails miserably at PvP primarily due to itemization and balance issues. WoW pvp is completely unplayable as a casual player. Regardless of skill, or innate ability you'll get stomped by No-Lifers with no skill--the stat differences between a No-Lifer and a casual player are far too great.

Early Alterac Valley, Ver 1 (with the massive map) was PvP nirvana because the best you could field in regards to gear were blue-rare equipment. Players weren't getting one or two shotted, matches weren't a 5 minute steamroll.

PvP in WoW for anyone but No-Lifers Is absolutely the Worst PvP available in a popular MMO. There is no map or Battleground so well constructed that it's worth suffering such borked itemization issues.

So we're down to some elite player-skill requirements and average environments for GW, or getting completely ganked/steamrolled by No-lifers in WoW.

I'm almost in agreement with your assessment of these games being equal for casual PvPers, but GW comes out on top for PvP systems and balance, WoW only has PvP environments, the combat is horrible.

What's amazing is that Blizzard would only need to cap-stats vs PvP and problem solved. But addiction to a competitive grind is what drives players in WoW, I really doubt Blizzard would every design counter to this principle--regardless of how exploitive this design principle is to human nature.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

"To get to what's best" is what I referred to the best qualities of both games: In Guild Wars, it takes a long time to get to the best - GvG. You need a large number of skills unlocked as well as with equipment. Sure, you can buy an unlock pack, but that's a hefty fine.

With WoW, it takes a long time to get to what's best - Raids. You need to level up your guy and grab some decent starting raid gear before you head in.

Of course there's different paths you can take, but those paths may not be as polished as those that the games want you to go on. But both get the job done: PvE in GW is fun, PvP in WoW is fun. Not great, not perfect, just fun.