Curse

bart · Dec 27, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

As someone who has played both games (GW for 1 year and then moved on to WoW for 2 years), I agree with all of Zinger's points. Ppl who haven't tried WoW should give it a try and vice versa.

Vinraith · Dec 27, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then why did Blizzard reduce the leveling time in 2.3? That doesn't sound like "wasting time."

Because as a user base ages it tends to become less mature, and the fundamental nature of keeping said user base hooked means pressing them only as far as they'll tolerate. In this case, reducing level time keeps more people playing the game, simple.

Quote:

While many game companies do have ulterior motives...those aren't.

I think they are, you think they aren't, only Blizzard knows for sure. All I can tell you is that I was bored within a few hours of starting my free WoW trial, and couldn't help but feel during that period that my time was being deliberately wasted. I found the combat control scheme obnoxiously awkward (especially for ranged combat), the graphics flat and lifeless, and the mechanics fundamentally uninvolving. To be honest, I can't imagine how anyone that's played GW can stand WoW, but then I've never had very mainstream taste in games. More power to you if you enjoy it.

cellardweller · Dec 27, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

The time to level a character in GW has increased from 2-3 hrs in factions to 20-30hrs in Nightfall and is now up to 100-300 hours in GW:EN. The game is barely more "casual friendly" than WoW these days.

IlikeGW · Dec 27, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I think about 5% of GW's base can even stand WoW. It's all about grind, big, fat, and boring... kinda like the players.

Biostem · Dec 27, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

The time to level a character in GW has increased from 2-3 hrs in factions to 20-30hrs in Nightfall and is now up to 100-300 hours in GW:EN. The game is barely more "casual friendly" than WoW these days.

First of all, GWEN is an expansion, so you can't really count its time to level a character; yes, you can bring a level 10 character there, but you are effectively given level 20 status until you actually get to 20 for real.

Second, if the only thing you care about is getting to max level, then that can be done very rapidly; in NF, for instance, you can get to 20 before leaving the newbie island by doing all the quests. Factions is a little light on quests on Shing Jea island and so it takes getting to the mainland to actually get to 20, but it still happens quickly. Only Prophecies draws things out a bit more, but it does cover a larger story w/ more primary quests.

I've played both WoW and GW, and the thing that turns me off to WoW are the very vague quest instructions, (like "head South and kill some stuff"), the graphics that remind me of a late 90's N64 game, and having to run everywhere for no good reason.

While I will not say GW is perfect, the fact that if I want to team w/ a guildmate all I need to do is map travel to the guild hall or location they are at, and join their team. Also the fact that there's no carrot of the next better weapon or armor piece dangling in front of me is a big draw. I also like the more detailed graphics that don't require very high end equipment to still look good. Also, capes and cloth in GW aren't make of cardboard like they are in WoW...

lacasner · Dec 27, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I agree with mostly everything OP has said. But, I will say that if GW PvP (the actual good part about the game, and I'm not being biased as someone can make an epic post why this is so) can be revitalized then GW will surpass WoW as the superior online game.

Malice Black · Dec 27, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

I think about 5% of GW's base can even stand WoW. It's all about grind, big, fat, and boring... kinda like the players.

True MMO's are suppose to be about the grind. If people hated grind so much why does WoW have 9million+ subscribers? (granted not all of those are active, and plenty are multiple accounts)

GW is a game for lazy/casual players/poor people
WoW is for the dedicated online gamer/no-lifers

Thats what it breaks down to imo

TF2 beats both hands down

@Bryant - spy...I like blasting spies with my heavy machine gun...getting owned from behind is funny though

Bryant Again · Dec 27, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

TF2 beats both hands down

Bryant Baby approves of this.

cellardweller · Dec 27, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

First of all, GWEN is an expansion, so you can't really count its time to level a character; yes, you can bring a level 10 character there, but you are effectively given level 20 status until you actually get to 20 for real.

Whether its a campaign or an expansion, it doesn't change the fact that it added over 100hrs to the amount of work required to get a fully leveled character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

Second, if the only thing you care about is getting to max level, then that can be done very rapidly; in NF, for instance, you can get to 20 before leaving the newbie island by doing all the quests. Factions is a little light on quests on Shing Jea island and so it takes getting to the mainland to actually get to 20, but it still happens quickly. Only Prophecies draws things out a bit more, but it does cover a larger story w/ more primary quests.

You've omitted all the work required to level the SS/LB/Rep points which is where the vast majority of the time is needed and the very reason why GW can no longer be considered to be a casual friendly game.

DarkNecrid · Dec 27, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Whether its a campaign or an expansion, it doesn't change the fact that it added over 100hrs to the amount of work required to get a fully leveled character.

Uh...100 hours to gain 50k XP? No.

GW:EN leveling is easy.

And you can't count rep as LEVELING.

cellardweller · Dec 27, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Uh...100 hours to gain 50k XP? No.

GW:EN leveling is easy.

And you can't count rep as LEVELING.

Your skills get more powerful as a number goes up... sounds just like leveling to me.

Malice Black · Dec 27, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

meh thats forced leveling, you can't count that. You don't need PvE skills and titles to be competitive in this game.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Thanks for taking the time to write all that up Zinger.
The only thing I didn't see was the comparison of battle game play, which is a large part of both games.
I do feel that WoW and GW have different types of game play in battles. I don't recall WoW having quite the tactical emphasis that Guild Wars has, such as active skill disabling, precision interruption and the heavy importance of hex/enchant removal. Nor do I remember much in the way of specific cross class skill synergy. Stuff beyond healer, tank, dps.
I could be wrong though. I have not played WoW in a bit. I did like the Warlock class though! They have some interesting synergy with their skills.

Malice Black · Dec 27, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

WoW has actually improved quite a lot over the years

DarkNecrid · Dec 27, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Your skills get more powerful as a number goes up... sounds just like leveling to me.

Except it isn't.

Leveling refers to the process of getting higher levels.

Max level in this game is 20 and you can get a new level easily.

Title's are in ranks. You can say GW:EN adds 100 hours to leveling title ranks, but leveling by itself refers to the process of going from Lv. 1-20+

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

WoW has actually improved quite a lot over the years

Yeah, I found that both WoW and Everquest 2 made amends to their professions skills to add more depth to fights. Both had significant CUs (combat updates).

cellardweller · Dec 27, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Except it isn't.

Leveling refers to the process of getting higher levels.

Max level in this game is 20 and you can get a new level easily.

Title's are in ranks. You can say GW:EN adds 100 hours to leveling title ranks, but leveling by itself refers to the process of going from Lv. 1-20+

For your character to be as powerful as the guy next to you in WoW you need to be L70 (days/weeks) and have epic gear (Months). For your character to be as powerful as the guy next to you in GW you need to be L20 (hours), have pvp equivelent gear (days) and have max rep titles (weeks). Arguing semantics isn't going to change that fact.

DreamRunner · Dec 27, 2007, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

-Zinger's point about a story as not that WoW had one but that WoW has a much, much more developed history.
-In regards to tanking, he was talking about game mechanics in general.
-AB's are chaotic. That's hard to dispute.

Likewise, one of my oldest and most used characters is a level 2 Priest named "Mahbank."

And if he was attempting to play and level and actually do quests, then he's probably one of the worst players imaginable, so much that I don't fully believe that quote.

Yes because of previous games, not WoW itself.

No he was talking about tanking in guild wars which is quite funny and shows his "experience" in gw. Tanking does no take any form in gw which in does in WoW.

AB's are yes messy but chaotic isnt the term. Chaotic is the term I would use in WoW's Battlegrounds which is actually quite similar to AB, but battleground sucks and chaotic would be the term for it.

I think the point was that WoW isn't that casual friendly as many point it out to be.

"WoW has actually improved quite a lot over the years"

More like WoW has taken its sweet time to improve. It wasn't until 2.0 did WoW actually improve in general.

Moonlit Azure · Dec 27, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Even though your trying not to be biased, you are.

It can't really be helped though, because you see the world through the color of the lens you wear.

You never have really stated the pros of Guild Wars. You have stated some but not as many in comparison fo WoW.

When you stated that WoW was more like an rpg because it focused on the individual character, you are wrong.

D&D is the father of all rpgs. And it focuses on the party as a whole. You can't survive as an individual. Guild wars is an rpg in more of an individual sense. You don't grind, and your mostly with other people.

The graphics in WoW and the price are the biggest turn down for me. Guild wars if more mature and realistic, while WoW has cartoonish graphics.

And WoW is more popular by propaganda imho. They have WoW action figures, books, clothes, commercials and even bored games! They have more influence out of the gaming community.

Also, for me GW is about the scenery also. Pre Searing Ascalon is beautiful and it out of comparison with WoW. You'll never see scenery quite like GW in any game.

Bryant Again · Dec 27, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Yes because of previous games, not WoW itself.

Okay. So what's wrong with this? The point in general is that WoW *has* that lore, whether or not it had a longer history backing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

AB's are yes messy but chaotic isnt the term. Chaotic is the term I would use in WoW's Battlegrounds which is actually quite similar to AB, but battleground sucks and chaotic would be the term for it.

I've actually found Battleground's and AB's to be one of the things Guild Wars and WoW have a lot in common. They're both full of crude players and are both more funny than anything. If you're using "chaotic" to be a shitty term than it's fair to apply it to both.