Curse

Bryant Again · Apr 24, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

People are making out like these trades happen on a regular basis, they don't. It's very rare for an item to be picked up for a seriously cheap price. You can hang around in the spam districts for days and not get a wiff of a decent bargain.

I don't see how often it occurs changes the meaning. Doesn't matter if one guy or a hundred guy's get jipped, they're still getting jipped.

I'm also gonna say this again since it got buried reeeeal quick:

"All in all, it comes down to what you as a player want to achieve. No one is certainly under any obligation to remind or tell players the true price of certain items, and it would indeed be the seller's fault for not researching the real prices before hand. Whether you want to help them out is totally up to you, eventually they're going to find out that the item they sold to you for 10k was really worth five hundred ectos."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The best lesson learned is learned through experience. People need to experience what it's like to sell an expensive item for cheap due to ignorance, so they can learn the be less ignorant.

Couldn't they also learn by being told of an item's true value, and to be advised to always research item prices before hand?

Lacroix · Apr 24, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofGrenth

Absolutely yes, it only shows that the guy selling the item is willing to sell it for a very low price, regardless if it is worth more. Like when your tax bill gets to your house and it states 20 bucks instead of 200 bucks, wouldnt you want to save $180? I'm almost sure you wouldnt call the tax company and say they have mistyped, now would you?

They're not willing to sell the item for a very low price. They don't KNOW if the item is worth more.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Oh, before someone else brings up, Anyone wants to QQ about how outdated the PC guides are on this forum?

... Because the price guides are done up by people who wish to help the community and it is tedious. Keeping it up to date to the very day, very minute is really even worse.

And even if it is outdated, taking a quick glance at it lets you identify the rare from the unrare. How precise you want to know the price of the weapon is up to you to search.

Price guides are almost info spoon feeded to the community, if you want to QQ about how outdated it is, I give up.

Lycan Nibbler · Apr 24, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I notice a trend here. The people who moan about being poor are also the people that don't take advantage of making a quick few k.

There'd be less QQ about being poor if you all grew a backbone.

Unfortunately, a blinkered and incorrect view Im afraid. I am and have been quite well off (in game lol) since the first few months.

Of course, I dont change my armour every 2 weeks like some Ive played with

Arkantos · Apr 24, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Couldn't they also learn by being told of an item's true value, and to be advises to always research item prices before hand?

They could, but there's still a high chance that they'll try to sell the next expensive item they get for cheap, thus not learning anything. If you find out you're selling an expensive item for cheap, you won't really care about your next item. If you find out you sold an expensive item for cheap, you'll most likely always research the item.

Zev HoaX · Apr 24, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

here is a way to find out if what you are asking is "right".

Would you like the action to happen to you?

I would answer no (And assume as such for the OP). noone likes to be cheated.

Would you want everyone to repeat this action to everyone else, all the time?

Again, no. If everyone cheated, lied, and took advantage of others than the system of market and trade would collapse as no one could ever trust anyone else and commit to trades effectively. (each side pointing fingers and yelling "LIAR") Taken to a real world scenario, it could lead to the collapse of the world economy if everyone blatantly lied about prices and always tried to steal exuberant amounts of money from their customers/partners.

Would you report this action to a societal and personal authority?

In this case, would you report yourself to a group/person who has authority of the well being of the game's market. No, as you would not want to risk punishment. In a real world scenario, would you report yourselves to the police, or any governing body that you had done this act? Again, probably not as you would not want punishment. Which shows you understand that others find the activity to be wrong.

Could you report this activity to someone who is very important in your life and whose opinion you value greatly (a family member, you Mother for example)? While in a "just a video game context" it would not matter of course, but put it into a real world. What if you swindled a man out of thousands of dollars when he sold his car to you, him thinking it was not worth as much as it was. Would you want to tell your mother? (very personal and thus varying question ,I know but it shows how we internalize guilt even if we don't outwardly accept it)

and there ya go.

if you dot want it to happen to you. And you don't want anyone else to do it, and you don't want anyone to know that YOU specifically have done it. then its wrong. For more info on this method google Immanuel Kant, and "The Categorical Imperative". beware though, the guy's books are hell to try and read through.

tl;dr : learn patience and attention. please try and read it.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

The problem is, as in the time I mentioned, that the person asked for a price check and was told 100g by three people (that happened to have the same tag.. go figure).

I must have missed that. As what you have mentioned, getting a fake PC is more like a scam. Its kinda different from what I am refering to though. If thats what you are refering to, then I am on your side for the black dye thing. Lying to buy something for cheap isn't right.

Malice Black · Apr 24, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

... Because the price guides are done up by people who wish to help the community and it is tedious. Keeping it up to date to the very day, very minute is really even worse.

And even if it is outdated, taking a quick glance at it lets you identify the rare from the unrare. How precise you want to know the price of the weapon is up to you to search.

Price guides are almost info spoon feeded to the community, if you want to QQ about how outdated it is, I give up.

Says a lot about the GW mentality:

"We want this, we want it now!"

Bryant Again · Apr 24, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

They could, but there's still a high chance that they'll try to sell the next expensive item they get for cheap, thus not learning anything.

How is the chance greater? Could a person who was selling an item for 10k nearly crap his pants when he's told that, right before he clicks the "trade" button, that his item is worth 100000 ectos?

Or is it the belief that in order to truly learn something that you have to be punished for it?

Now, see where this is going? Please do something, Arkantos. This is getting into territory that is entirely too ethical of a discussion for this forum and that will only go further downhill.

SonofGrenth · Apr 24, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacroix

They're not willing to sell the item for a very low price. They don't KNOW if the item is worth more.

Why sell something if you dont know the price? It is so obvious that when players sell an expensive item very cheap that these people ARE trying to sell that item. That is what this topid is about. Yet they do not know it is worth more.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev HoaX

Ethical Theories

Your statement is only correct if your assumptions are correct. Which in this case, you assumed cheating and lying.

Lacroix · Apr 24, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

They could, but there's still a high chance that they'll try to sell the next expensive item they get for cheap, thus not learning anything. If you find out you're selling an expensive item for cheap, you won't really care about your next item. If you find out you sold an expensive item for cheap, you'll most likely always research the item.

How does that make any sense? You get the same result. All you're doing is trying to find a way to justify taking advantage of a newbie.

If you just give them a small message, doesn't take that long to say... "Listen, the price you want is too low. Ask around for a good price on that item. Do the same in the future! If you do that, you'll save yourself a lot of money and frustration." Guess what? You've done something nice for them, they get the same message, and they can still make a profit. Just because you're that greedy for a profit doesn't mean you should upset others.

pumpkin pie · Apr 24, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

The highlighted word isn't a really correct word to use. Is there a way to prey on them? Or is there some secret spot which people like these appear? If so, please share.

Have you run out of defense that you must pick my vocabulary apart?

for your information prey read verb explanation number 2.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Have you run out of defense that you must pick my vocabulary apart?

for your information prey read verb explanation number 2.

I picked on that word because the choice of word: Prey, makes a difference in your statement. I have read the link, and the "prey" you are talking about is NOT defenseless.

pumpkin pie · Apr 24, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

so you think,

and I think otherwise, hence I use that word.

Zev HoaX · Apr 24, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Your statement is only correct if your assumptions are correct. Which in this case, you assumed cheating and lying.

Was this not the point of the thread? Lying about the worth of an item, and not giving the amount of wealth deserved for the worth of the item?

if it is not, then I apologize as I have misunderstood the point of this thread. However I still think that method is somewhat useful in understanding different points of view for ethical debates.

Mohnzh · Apr 24, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I don't think it is wrong, unless it is over-the-top. The main reason I say this is because I am always the one getting ripped off, and I don't care. I frequently sell stuff and see the person immediately turn around and offer it for 150% of what I sold it for. I don't care. Quick sell. I would rather go play the game and find more stuff to sell cheap than QQ about it or spend more time trying to sell for higher prices. It's also why I NEVER haggle. If I say a price, I do not accept less. I know I always ask for low. If I see someone selling stuff WAY too cheap (like less than 1/10th of its going rate) I think that person should be given a heads up. If your goal is to rip someone off, then you are despicable. If your goal is to turn a profit, you are savvy. Trading should be mutually beneficial. I will incur more transactions with people that have developed repoir with me through sincerity and a goal for mutual beneficence while maintaining their need for profit. I trust them. I'm okay with them making money off me. So, in summation, it depends on your motive. Profit = good. Predation = bad.

Darkobra · Apr 24, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev HoaX

here is a way to find out if what you are asking is "right".

Would you like the action to happen to you?

Yes. It was my own fault to not fully research a price, so I pay for my foolishness. It's through mistakes we learn faster.

kobey · Apr 24, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zev HoaX

Was this not the point of the thread? Lying about the worth of an item, and not giving the amount of wealth deserved for the worth of the item?

if it is not, then I apologize as I have misunderstood the point of this thread. However I still think that method is somewhat useful in understanding different points of view for ethical debates.

Yup, one of the few ethical principles which I have learnt before in school too

But from my understanding, we are debating about whether buying an item for way below the standard price is "right" or not. No lying is involved in this case of course. If lying is involved, then I don't think its right either.

Bryant Again · Apr 24, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Yes. It was my own fault to not fully research a price, so I pay for my foolishness. It's through mistakes we learn faster.

Dunno about you, but I've learned best from taking notes : O

(Just making another note about where this thread is heading, Kobra : )