Curse

Avon45 · May 10, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You already see people wanting to buff splinter weapon (!!!) and minion masters (!!!).

Well I only asked for a SW buff for the sake of farming. Agreed, it's powerful enough for PvE but... who can deny that, *that* type of farming was one of the best?

Getting out-of-topic there, so I'll just stop.

Pumpkin man · May 10, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Moar bridge > less of me having to deal with PvP douchebags.

About time!

tre_peter · May 10, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akolo

who said foes are getting buffed? who said skills are getting buffed?

anyway i am both for and against this, depending on how Anet handles it :S

I hope you properly read the dev update before commenting!

To quote the dev update wiki;

"With such a system we can revert high-impact nerfs, such as Light of Deliverance and Defensive Anthem, to make them strong again in PvE."

For PvE, they will be making certain skills more powerful than they are currently, that's what I consider a buff. And foes that use the skills that get buffed, will become more powerful.

At least this is my understanding...

ogre_jd · May 10, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Try doing missions in Cantha -- there's nobody home!

Maybe for the 'elite' areas and the Jade Quarry (Kurzick side, anyways; haven't been to the Luxon side yet). But in the American districts in the evening (for North America), as well as afternoons on the weekends, all the regular mission outposts I've been to have been well-populated. Their Locals do tend to be a bit quieter, though, with less spam.

Alliance Battle outposts tend to be bursting at the seams, from what I've noticed the few times I've bothered with it (I'm strange and have no real interest in the titles or the Factions PvE skills, so I can get more than enough faction via questing and slaughtering all in my path when I travel through the areas, especially since I tend to try and do a full circuit of the outside of explorables the first time I go through).

Quote:

Originally Posted by tre_peter

hope you properly read the dev update before commenting!

To quote the dev update wiki;

"With such a system we can revert high-impact nerfs, such as Light of Deliverance and Defensive Anthem, to make them strong again in PvE."

For PvE, they will be making certain skills more powerful than they are currently, that's what I consider a buff. And foes that use the skills that get buffed, will become more powerful.

At least this is my understanding...

The sense I get from this is that they're reverting skills that were only nerfed for the sake of PvP balance and that they had no objection to outside of their effects on PvP. Reverting != buffing, except maybe from the PoV of someone who never experienced something before the original nerfing and are unaware that what's happened is just a reversion so that it seems like a buff from out of the blue.

zwei2stein · May 10, 2008, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyree

IMO nuking is a tactic. The tank aggro the enemies and try to have all of them attacking him, the nukers try not to break the aggro and nuke everything, what is wrong about it? You may be using the AI in your favor here but, i don't see any noobish here...

It is noobish in sense that it is not particulary effective. It is slow for starters. Its something that experienced player eventually should outgrow.

There are better (and more advanced) options on how to obliterate mobs.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyree

IMO nuking is a tactic. The tank aggro the enemies and try to have all of them attacking him, the nukers try not to break the aggro and nuke everything, what is wrong about it? You may be using the AI in your favor here but, i don't see any noobish here...

I wasn't referring to nuking as a tactic. I was referring to just crushing mobs with the overwhelming firepower of PvE skills. Hence pvenuking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyree

How come leaving the skill the way they are now or changing to the way they were before is making PVE easier?

Do you really, honestly think they are going to introduce a new PvE setup just so they can reduce the power of some skills? When the prime offenders on PvE are the currently-in-place PvE skills that need nerfing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tre_peter

It works both ways. The foes get the buff too, so you will still need to pick the right skills, or you'll only die faster.

Enemy damage is practically irrelevant through SY, TNTF, and the other massive levels of passive defence. What matters is your ability to kill things - and increasing that will just increase the ability to yawningly crush mobs. If skills like SY were nerfed (preferably into oblivion), this might be different to an extent.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I wasn't referring to nuking as a tactic. I was referring to just crushing mobs with the overwhelming firepower of PvE skills. Hence pvenuking.

Do you really, honestly think they are going to introduce a new PvE setup just so they can reduce the power of some skills? When the prime offenders on PvE are the currently-in-place PvE skills that need nerfing?

Enemy damage is practically irrelevant through SY, TNTF, and the other massive levels of passive defence. What matters is your ability to kill things - and increasing that will just increase the ability to yawningly crush mobs. If skills like SY were nerfed (preferably into oblivion), this might be different to an extent.

Go here for a suggestion of an optional PVP rules mode.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10287497

Solves your problem, doesn't it? Let the others who like the possible reverted PvE rules mode to play on their terms.

To each their own. Now, the only ones who will complain, are those who wishes to dictate how other people play.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

To each their own. Now, the only ones who will complain, are those who wishes to dictate how other people play.

Perhaps we should next allow players to spawn platinum and instantly kill monsters. Players who don't want to use it don't have to, and shouldn't dictate how the game should be played to those who do.

It's a silly argument. A good game has solidly defined boundaries through which the player performs. If ANet wants to make dozens of optional rules, they might as well just release GW to be played offline with 7 heroes and fully open to 3rd-party programs.

Rocky Raccoon · May 10, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It adds even more knowledge they need to learn, which puts anyone off from doing something. There are a ton of people out there who refuse to go to college, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't want to go through 4 years of gaining knowledge again. They get put off of it from school.

I am sorry but I couldn't get past the ignorance of this statement. When we stop trying to learn we become ignorant.

It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
Enrico Fermi

NeHoMaR · May 10, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Hmmm! they are doing this 3 years later? so still we can get an Auction House and Hair-Stylist in 1 or 2 years? ^_^

FengShuiDove · May 10, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

This sounds like a fantastic plan in my opinion. Particularly since I should now be able to happily keep running Perma Shadow in PvE and the scrubs spamming it in PvP can go suck an egg.

Really though, especially considering all of the PvE only skills out there, normal skills are dwindling in use. Paired with an Ursan team, the old LoD would have been godly, but was nerfed due to an overpowered PvP usage.

I don't care how late it is, I think this is a smart move.

Shakkara · May 10, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Great now unnerf paragon.

Song of Restoration back to 5 energy and a 10 sec recharge for gods sake!

Mitchel · May 10, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

"We're busy working on GW2"
I guess this is just another test program like the Concise description and the BMP for GW2.

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Perhaps we should next allow players to spawn platinum and instantly kill monsters. Players who don't want to use it don't have to, and shouldn't dictate how the game should be played to those who do.

It's a silly argument. A good game has solidly defined boundaries through which the player performs. If ANet wants to make dozens of optional rules, they might as well just release GW to be played offline with 7 heroes and fully open to 3rd-party programs.

Go home, Avarre. The white flags are waving everywhere, the battle's already been lost. In fact, we probably lost the fight months and months ago.

Allowing players to spawn plat isn't necessarily a bad thing, and actually raises a different issue from instant-kills. Pertinent question: why does the game even need an economy? Why shouldn't you get all and any equipment for free? It's particularly relevant in a game that supposedly emphasizes skill - in such a game, why wouldn't you allow characters to start UAX-style in PvE? Then, the only thing that matters is skill - it's the only thing that can matter. You never have to grind for anything, because there's nothing to grind for - the actual purpose of the game crystallizes beautifully.

This is the approach that a lot of action games take. Sure, you get some upgrades from beating bosses, but there's not really anything to grind for. Instant-killing monsters, on the other hand, runs us into the problem of, "okay, what do we do now?"

stale · May 10, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

been away for a week or so, just got back. i do believe this is the first update in most of three years that i've been happy about.

PvPers can have every skill in the game nerfed to being the same damned skill(only way there will ever be "balance") and PvE can simply enjoy skills doing different things with different level's of power.

it's just a pity that they didn't do this 3 years ago, at inception, instead of now.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Perhaps we should next allow players to spawn platinum and instantly kill monsters. Players who don't want to use it don't have to, and shouldn't dictate how the game should be played to those who do.

It's a silly argument. A good game has solidly defined boundaries through which the player performs. If ANet wants to make dozens of optional rules, they might as well just release GW to be played offline with 7 heroes and fully open to 3rd-party programs.

Your arugment makes no sense. The rules and boundaries of play is still decided upon by the Dev's.

Lets take this scenario, the Dev's just revert all the nerfs they made initially to the skills just for only the PvE rules mode, would your above scenario occur ?

You are simply offering an over the top extremely unlikely scenario to justify your words. I dare to say that, even if all the previous nerfs reverted, you would not find billions of platinum suddenly flooding the GW economy. ( Now, isn't that extreme ? )

Chances are, the Dev's will be reverting a limit number of skills on a weekly basis within the PvE setting, assess its impact, and decide whether there is a significant shift in the overall GW economy. ( I wished they would release statistcs like these though )

Instead, allowing PvE and PvP rules to be separate, with an optional setting for players to decide whether they want a PvP rule set in a PvE setting, is the best way, as players could choose how they want to play.

On a final note, everyone is aware GW is on its final lap of its MMO life, before transition to GW 2.

So I propose we let the Dev's try out as many radical and unusual ideas such as this PvE and PvP rules separation of state, and let them collect Server data on what would be the actual effect on the GW economy, and how it is applicable to GW2.

I also propose they let out 7 heroes, and see what is the possible impact on GW word, so that they can collect even more data for their analysis work.

All this serves to benefit GW2 in the long run, as they will gain insights on what to or not to apply.

Everyone can give an opinion and foresight on what the future is like. ( Heard of the phrase, "give a million monkeys a typewriter, and eventually one would write the works of shakespheare" ? )

But Hard server data collected by impacting drastic changes can be evaluated and analysed, allowing the Dev's to improve on what they are doing.

Remember, numbers don't lie, only people do.

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

The idea now with the separation of PVE from PVP should be to make more regular skills MORE POWERFUL in the same light as UB as to make MORE VIABLE choices on what skills to play. So yeah making old skills they nerfed to oblivion back the way they were could easily make UB just another skill instead of THE SKILL. Gemme back my 30+ minions and I won't think UB is all that anymore.

Remove the sacrifice % when healing minions as well and bring SR back to what it used to be and it will make UB look like a noobs toy.

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Just remove the cap on elite skills and be done with it.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Just remove the cap on elite skills and be done with it.

Thats one radical idea, wonder what would the possible effect on GW world would it be ?

On a side note, why shouldn't Dev's try to increase the cap to 2, and see whats the possible impact ?

I am all for change, although I am uncertain what is the end consequence, I am intrigued by the uncertainty.

Lagg · May 10, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

This update only makes sense if it's made for all skills, not just a select few that Anet deems buffworthy.

Otherwise it'll just look like a hackjob.