Curse

skanvak · May 10, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

I will not repeat the argument developped elsewhere why this update is bad.

I would like to know why peopole think that making GW 2 separate game, that separating the 2 communauty is good?

The good solution would have been no nerf at all. That would have meant that Anet do a good job laytesting their skills. But the only way to stop the whining would have been a commitement from Anet to NEVER change skilled once introduced in the game (except bug that allow thousands of damage in a second, but whe had only one or two). Nerf (and this is true for pve or pvp) only punish people for understanding the game.

I prefer equity over balance (it is ok to have uber powerful skill if it is uber difficult to get them). This get down to a matter of taste may be.

Regular change of skill as lead to a disaster : the difinite splitting of the communauty. That is sad. The proposed update will only increased that and damaged AB.

Yes AB was very close to pve setting, I could use AoE spell in AB very effectively including against players. Why? because 12 vs 12 in a bridge get a congestion that is effecient. Someting that dont't appen in an arena. All thouse thing are normal. You won't use an artillery gun to fight in a box ring...
That does not make the artilery gun imbalance, and surely god won't change the way artillery gun woked even if imbalance. Well DN were imbalanced at their time, this does not bother anyone, they just all build DN.

MMOG need to have stable rules that don't change every year.

Gli · May 10, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanvak

I would like to know why peopole think that making GW 2 separate game, that separating the 2 communauty is good?

Because with but a minority of exceptions it has been like that from day 1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanvak

MMOG need to have stable rules that don't change every year.

Changes can be for the better, and when they are, they can rekindle interest in the game from lapsed (or about to lapse) players.

Angelic Upstart · May 10, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Now that we'll be having more overpowered skills, ANet should finally kill ursan. I'd rather have a bunch of overpowered skills than one super overpowered skill that lets any player clear any location.

if they don't kill ursan, this is wasted effort, because a majorty of PvErs are still going to be running ursan.

Agreed.

This is a shake up, and bloody good job too, it may just inject some fun into the game again.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

If skills have to be better to fight monsters than to fight players (which is, as players are on both sides, the idea of balance), then you know the skills for PvE only are going to be stronger. Otherwise they wouldn't need restriction.

The real question is why is ANet making PvE easier?.

More skills aimed at PvE aren't needed. Better design is to reduce externalities from PvP updates. Making PvE-specific skills is just going to degrade PvE into a purely loot/time oriented game even further.

When was the last time tactics were even needed to clear an area? We don't need no tactics, we're just gonna PVENUKE these noobz!

Bad change for good reasons, overall. Not that PvE has had any depth or been interesting in the last year, though, so nothing of value will be lost.

frojack · May 10, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If skills have to be better to fight monsters than to fight players (which is, as players are on both sides, the idea of balance), then you know the skills for PvE only are going to be stronger. Otherwise they wouldn't need restriction.

The real question is why is ANet making PvE easier?.

More skills aimed at PvE aren't needed. Better design is to reduce externalities from PvP updates. Making PvE-specific skills is just going to degrade PvE into a purely loot/time oriented game even further.

When was the last time tactics were even needed to clear an area? We don't need no tactics, we're just gonna PVENUKE these noobz!

Bad change for good reasons, overall. Not that PvE has had any depth or been interesting in the last year, though, so nothing of value will be lost.

Far enough, but consider that there are people who just suck at the game. Period. Also having a few stronger skills doesn't change the fact that PvE isn't that interesting in terms play, since it has zero dynamism.

Weakening skills so it requires some good play (or rather mere attention) just makes it more dull for everyone. Fighting dumb bots with weak skills...

Nemesis of God · May 10, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

They done it only to calm down about Zaishen title. Still nice update.

Thierry2 · May 10, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If skills have to be better to fight monsters than to fight players (which is, as players are on both sides, the idea of balance), then you know the skills for PvE only are going to be stronger. Otherwise they wouldn't need restriction.

The real question is why is ANet making PvE easier?.

More skills aimed at PvE aren't needed. Better design is to reduce externalities from PvP updates. Making PvE-specific skills is just going to degrade PvE into a purely loot/time oriented game even further.

When was the last time tactics were even needed to clear an area? We don't need no tactics, we're just gonna PVENUKE these noobz!

Bad change for good reasons, overall. Not that PvE has had any depth or been interesting in the last year, though, so nothing of value will be lost.

I agree that they're making PvE even easier, but maybe people will finally stop playing ursan everywhere now.. even if it doesn't get nerfed.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry2

I agree that they're making PvE even easier, but maybe people will finally stop playing ursan everywhere now.. even if it doesn't get nerfed.

That's true. Personally I prefer players actually forming skillbars rather than letting the game do it for them. It at least generates more variety.

N1ghtstalker · May 10, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

now PvE will not suffer the consequenses of PvP
lets nerf [escape] now

Hyper Cutter · May 10, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

Most of them are overpowered and linked to grindranks.

On the contrary, it seems to me that outside a few major offenders (Ursan, TNTF, SY, and a handful of others) that most PVE skills are mediocre at best...

bel unbreakable · May 10, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

totaly crap even

netniwk · May 10, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

On the contrary, it seems to me that outside a few major offenders (Ursan, TNTF, SY, and a handful of others) that most PVE skills are mediocre at best...

add pain inverter to that list, and wile that may not be a long list,all of them are massively overpowered and (imo) gamebreaking.

tre_peter · May 10, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The real question is why is ANet making PvE easier?.

I think by changing the skills we already have, they arent making it easier but faster. Surely no-one could have a problem with that, in taking away the 'slog-fest' nature of the game to some extent.

It works both ways. The foes get the buff too, so you will still need to pick the right skills, or you'll only die faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

When was the last time tactics were even needed to clear an area? We don't need no tactics, we're just gonna PVENUKE these noobz!

So you're saying there wont be a loss in tactical preparation (as none exists)? If it's not there now, whats the harm in this update?

Plus, nuking is fun! I remember the old days of laying down meteor shower and firestorm and thinking I was the bee's knees.

Ah, I can see the game returning to that old state, where you could get away with being a noob, making your own inventive, fun builds that seemed effective (as opposed to being at a disadvantaged for not using the cookie cutters). I remember my firestorm/lava font warrior

Akolo · May 10, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

who said foes are getting buffed? who said skills are getting buffed?

anyway i am both for and against this, depending on how Anet handles it :S

Woop Shotty · May 10, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Wow! Anet used to be very serious about keeping all skills balanced, that is to say same, for both PvE and PvP. I think it's a surprise, and I don't like it. I guess they got tired of trying to make skills viable in both areas.

Why are you guys gobbling this up as good news? There are 1235 skills. I'm sure they're not going to have an alternate for every one of them, but I think it's a bad idea to create so much confusion...

RyXXed · May 10, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry2

I agree that they're making PvE even easier, but maybe people will finally stop playing ursan everywhere now.. even if it doesn't get nerfed.

They're probably making it easier so everyone can do elite areas without cookie cutter builds, and also, having one good bar in PvE for a class is just ridiculous.

Not to mention almost one skill - one bar players.

distilledwill · May 10, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I have to say, im not too keen on the idea. However, what has to be done, has to be done.

Lalita · May 10, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Sweet! I have a wish list a mile long of skills nerfed over the last couple years.

Would LOVE it if they would take away the 10 minion cap, minion armies ftw!

Elena · May 10, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

hmm now i'm not sure but i thought the cap came cause minion masters dominated too much in pve

Nyree · May 10, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If skills have to be better to fight monsters than to fight players (which is, as players are on both sides, the idea of balance), then you know the skills for PvE only are going to be stronger. Otherwise they wouldn't need restriction.

The real question is why is ANet making PvE easier?.

More skills aimed at PvE aren't needed. Better design is to reduce externalities from PvP updates. Making PvE-specific skills is just going to degrade PvE into a purely loot/time oriented game even further.

How come leaving the skill the way they are now or changing to the way they were before is making PVE easier?, maybe the changes we had in the skills made things harder, but changing to the way the were before is not making things easier. I think you're jumping into conclusions here, we don't know exactly what they will do and they didn't said that they are making pve specific skills, maybe they will just chage some skills to their original design. What i see is they changing skills to balance PVP without touching skills that didn't needed any change for PVE, and not they buffing PVE skill to make PVE easier...

Quote:

When was the last time tactics were even needed to clear an area? We don't need no tactics, we're just gonna PVENUKE these noobz!

IMO nuking is a tactic. The tank aggro the enemies and try to have all of them attacking him, the nukers try not to break the aggro and nuke everything, what is wrong about it? You may be using the AI in your favor here but, i don't see any noobish here...