Curse

Tyla · May 10, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Do you not know the meaning of the word EVERYONE? If just one person doesnt' use it than the statement is false, and a lot more than one do not use it. Troll elsewhere.

EDIT: Just went to ToA on your suggestion. About half the groups forming were NON Ursan.

Maybe you're right about it being a little misleading.

But about the edit: Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Let's try and keep things back on topic anyhow.

cellardweller · May 10, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

It was a bad idea when it was first suggested and its a bad idea now. PvE relies on pvp to keep skill power levels in check. We're going to end up with broken PvE with countless "I win" buttons rather than just the 5-6 "I win" buttons we currently have.

All the existing separation in the form of PvE skills and Consumables should have been removed instead.

LifeInfusion · May 10, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

...and the divide between PvE and PvP becomes wider. Simply put, it's sad that it has come to this.

it widened with luxon/kurzick skills, then sunspear skills, then eotn as a whole. Now it is a canyon not a simple line.

P.S. if the PVE skillset is different keep in mind the same skills players use in PVE the MOBS USE also.

mrmango · May 10, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Oh well. More opportunity to show who gets Anet attention, that whining works, who whines, etc.

Yay for easier PVE titles.

angmar_nite · May 10, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Yay. PVE pugs can LOD their ursans now!

Jk, this is a great idea! Late maybe, but better than never.

Trub · May 10, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

P.S. if the PVE skillset is different keep in mind the same skills players use in PVE the MOBS USE also.

I would be ever so pleased if all my skills were reverted back to their original form...and the mobs I fight have the same level playing field...like the old days.
THAT is what made the game exciting for me.

darkknightkain · May 10, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

It's about time.

Using skills balanced for PvE won't work for PvP and same goes for using skills balanced for PvP won't work for PvE. They are fundamentally entirely different games. Unless the game only has one PvPvE mode to balance to, balancing one and expect it to work at the other is just asking for disaster.

It's seriously disconcerning when enemy mobs suddently out of no reason start using skills at ZERO attribute thanks to the skill changes, or that time even a mission BOSS like Drought got nerfed to a PUSHOVER in one night thanks to the pvp whining.

Well, with this hopefully the game can finally be reverted back to the way it was actually designed.

Alex the Great · May 10, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Red Engine Gored Engine Gored Engine Gored Engine Going

Finally

Hell Esyes

I agree, but unfortunately the HARDCORE PvE audience can't take it when their PARAGON becomes useless (even though they are still the most broken class after countless nerfs....) or when their Necromancer somehow becomes "useless" after Soul Reaping got nerfed (hint: still the best primary attribute).

Unfortunately, those guys BRING IN THE MONEY so they need to cater to them as a business. So this way, they can cater to them and not break PvP.

it sucks, but I'm happy. Anything that'll stop the WAAAbulance.

EDIT #2:
of course, these same people are going to cry when they realize that Izzy really doesn't give 2 shits about PvE (hello Ursan), and won't be doing any balances for it.

LOL

I'm so motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing tierd of all these shots and generalities aimed at those who play pve. Everyone uses the whining whammo as a generality of all pve players, and that is complete bull. People don't quit over skill nerfs, and people ddidn't pay less money when *insert random nerf here* got smacked. I've played on both sides of this game (currently pveing however), and this annimosity towards those who CHOOSE A DIFFERENT GAME MODE THAN YOU is making my gaming less enjoyable.

so in conclusion, STFU whiners on both sides, and lets just play what we want to play and get along.

Ben-A-BoO · May 10, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

It is sooo late in the games evolution that it hardly matters anymore in my opinion (aka. overpowered pve-only skills / no balance system for consumables).

I think it is more a test run for GW2 then anything else.

I am playing PvE and PvP and I am concerned ... we'll see how 'hard' it will be in the end to keep track.

I am curious.

Burst Cancel · May 10, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

I've never been able to figure out Anet's various strategies.

I thought the entire point of PvE skills was to prevent PvP skill nerfs from unduly affecting the casual crowd's ability to enjoy the game with overpowered skills. Ditto with consumables. What, then, is the point of now separating PvP and PvE skill balance?

It seems to me that the solution should be one or the other, not one and the other.

lyra_song · May 10, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I've never been able to figure out Anet's various strategies.

Cause they try to listen to everyone. They try to please everyone.

But they are bad with implementations and generally please nobody.

Oh and the community is hostile as hell.

So you end up with a cycle of disappointment.

Trub · May 10, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

I thought the entire point of PvE skills was to prevent PvP skill nerfs from unduly affecting the casual crowd's ability to enjoy the game with overpowered skills. Ditto with consumables. What, then, is the point of now separating PvP and PvE skill balance?

Because there is still a very large group of players that want the 'old ways' of REAL proffesion skills over PvE (faction based) 'skills'.

Yes, there are still players that play the game without 'imba buffs'.

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

As long as the majority are happy (pve-ers) then it doesn't matter about the minority disappointment. We've needed this separation for a long time. Persistance does payoff sometimes. But, I don't think it will work for the 7 heroes debate.

Vilaptca · May 10, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

It is sooo late in the games evolution that it hardly matters anymore in my opinion (aka. overpowered pve-only skills / no balance system for consumables).

I think it is more a test run for GW2 then anything else.

I am playing PvE and PvP and I am concerned ... we'll see how 'hard' it will be in the end to keep track.

I am curious.

I agree.

This is a test for GW2. Same as the EotN thing that makes you lvl 20 but not.

I think its just different ideas that they have for GW2 and they want to see how they'll work out. We're like alpha testing GW2 ideas kind of.

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Sonya. I'm not a pvp player. I'm a pve player.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, I can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Do you think that:

1: Nothing in this game, PvE-wise, should be a challenge?

2: Anything that presents a challenge should be easily circumvented by purchasable or craftable upgrades?

This is where we're at with the present state of affairs. The real culprit here is Ursan Blessing, which has even removed the need for 95% of all Guild Wars players to create a working build, or even copy one.

SY! and the rest are still crazy skills, but at least they require you to 1: Put them on the bar, 2: Bring skills complementing your Super Elites in a reasonable way.

Welp here is my opinion on that. Everybody paid THIER money to play the game and I think EVERYBODY should be able to get to ALL PARTS of the game no matter what it takes for them to get there. Challenge isn't an issue as you can create your own challenge individually. Challenge shouldn't be something that is "forced" on every player, team, group or whatever. If they want to use URSANS and whatever else that's great I'm all for it. It doesn't effect MY GAME PLAY at all. As far as challenge I can take 7 henchies only and find all the challenge I want in hard mode.

It's just a perspective thing, but, the way one person plays or finds challenge doesn't mean every other person should have to play that way either. There are too many options. Find a guild, get some friends play solo or QUIT. No one is forcing anyone to continue to play this game if they can't find any challenge. I personally find my challenge playing PVP, I play PVE for FUN as that is what it's intended to be played for FUN & ENTERTAINMENT....but, some want total challenge, well play hard mode solo and I mean solo by yourself and see how far you can get before you die.

There's plenty of challenge left in GW's without taking away things that make the game fun for others like Ursans Blessing.

Mainly I think most people gripe just to hear themselves gripe and hope Anet changes things that pisses people off. I see it too much everyday here and heck I have to include myself cause there's some things I want to see in GW2 that I know several people can't stand, but, welp everyone is different and it's like a boxing match, sticking and moving and hoping Anet listens to me before they listen to others. Just human nature and life really.

I will always be for the little guy who can only play an hour or so. I've always questioned every mmorpg (and left them) because they didn't make them EASIER to at least solo and get to the phatt loot content. Everyone paid their $50 or whatever and everyone deserves to get there by more means than elitist grouping types. I'm even more for total solo which GW2 pledges to be. No one should be forced to group and no one should have to play against the challenge level beyond rediculous as I see from some who play this game too much.

Inde · May 10, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I will always be for the little guy who can only play an hour or so. I've always questioned every mmorpg (and left them) because they didn't make them EASIER to at least solo and get to the phatt loot content. Everyone paid their $50 or whatever and everyone deserves to get there by more means than elitist grouping types. I'm even more for total solo which GW2 pledges to be. No one should be forced to group and no one should have to play against the challenge level beyond rediculous as I see from some who play this game too much.

Red Sonya, while I understand your perspective... this doesn't make for a good game. If everything can be obtained in only playing an hour or so a day/week/whatever then what appeal does that have for anyone else who actually wants to play the game more??? There's just no way to make something easily obtainable while still maintaining a playerbase that keeps the game running. And this is a massive multi-player online game. There are plenty of games out there that are solo... MMOG's are community driven by their nature. Which means interacting and actually grouping. This is a genre of games, there are plenty of other genre's out there from strategy to FPS that appeal to the solo player. MMOG's are not solo games.

snaek · May 10, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Do you not know the meaning of the word EVERYONE? If just one person doesnt' use it than the statement is false, and a lot more than one do not use it. Troll elsewhere.

EDIT: Just went to ToA on your suggestion. About half the groups forming were NON Ursan.

do u not know the meaning of the word exaggeration?

obviously not 'everyone' uses it...
do lvl 6s use it? no
do pvp'rs who dun pve use it? no
do ppl who dun even own eotn use it? no

but 'everyone' uses it

Makkert · May 10, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Red Sonya, while I understand your perspective... this doesn't make for a good game. If everything can be obtained in only playing an hour or so a day/week/whatever then what appeal does that have for anyone else who actually wants to play the game more??? There's just no way to make something easily obtainable while still maintaining a playerbase that keeps the game running. And this is a massive multi-player online game. There are plenty of games out there that are solo... MMOG's are community driven by their nature. Which means interacting and actually grouping. This is a genre of games, there are plenty of other genre's out there from strategy to FPS that appeal to the solo player. MMOG's are not solo games.

This is I <3 Inde.
Inde knows how to build up an argumentation, with words the 1337-speaker has no clue about.
Such a rare quality unfortunately.

Hollow Gein · May 10, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quite pleased with this solution. Now just give me back my minion army and I'll give you a cookie A-Net.

snaek · May 10, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Red Sonya, while I understand your perspective... this doesn't make for a good game. If everything can be obtained in only playing an hour or so a day/week/whatever then what appeal does that have for anyone else who actually wants to play the game more??? There's just no way to make something easily obtainable while still maintaining a playerbase that keeps the game running. And this is a massive multi-player online game. There are plenty of games out there that are solo... MMOG's are community driven by their nature. Which means interacting and actually grouping. This is a genre of games, there are plenty of other genre's out there from strategy to FPS that appeal to the solo player. MMOG's are not solo games.

actually theres plenty of reason to keep playing a game
good gameplay and playin wit other ppl bein 2 of the better reasons

unfortunately, the reason that u mention that makes ppl want to play more,
is far from a good reason
when titles first came out, i was like yay sumptin to work towards
until i found myself getting titles jus for the sake of getting em
it became boring and tiresome

sure u feel good once u achieve it or obtain it
but y cant u feel good by havin a fun time playin all the time?
(not jus after u achieve sumptin big)

im not sayin that there shouldnt be a challenge
but the challenge needs to be fun, not a grind
grinding is nuthin more than the "nicotine" or "crack" of gaming