Curse

Hyper.nl · May 07, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

My vote goes to No level cap but with significant less benefit for higher levels after a certain point.

GenericWasDanny · May 07, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

level cap ftw

arena net have stated that there will be a level cap of around 150, but it will take the same amount of time to get to 150 as it does for us to get to 20

dont worry about it

Gattocheese · May 07, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

It wouldnt matter to me if the lvl cap was 50 or infinite. I enjoy lvling my character as long as there are benefits to it. Its a part of content that i enjoy. One of the only few drawbacks about GW1 for me.

As far as the post skill>time bs. Its not true. The only ones whom have any skill are the ones that actually take time to do their own builds. Mostly everyone you see in PvP, Halls ect.. use premade builds on their bars. Whom ever can spam this skill or that skill first or fastest wins. That doesnt sound like too much skill to me. I would say it takes a lil more effort than skill to learn the skill bar or how to use it. Which equates to skill=time. Fanboi's use the excuse of CO-MMO or skill>time thing to try to seperate this game from WoW or every other MMO out there. Plain and simple fact is that the majority of online players like character developement and Anet wants more of a crowd then us few still lingering in GW.

prism2525 · May 07, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Ok this may sound silly/absurd but I'll give it a shot:

What about no lvl cap but your lv 500 'almighty' powers are reduced to a certain 'max' lvl when playing with others.

Of course it would have to be done as it would not be a mission impossible for groups or a walk in the park for uber soloists. Then there's the farming aspect to it but if Anet act smart and make mixed group that do random things which cannot be handled by bots it should help.

I say this because while I understand the need for teams and balance, I'd love to be able to go out and "stare-kill" mobs once in a while or blast them to smithereens with a finger flick.

Angelica · May 07, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

lvl cap 20 ftw!

zwei2stein · May 07, 2008, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

I say this because while I understand the need for teams and balance, I'd love to be able to go out and "stare-kill" mobs once in a while or blast them to smithereens with a finger flick.

You can do that in newbie areas, you know.

Riot Narita · May 07, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattocheese

Plain and simple fact is that the majority of online players like character developement

Uh-huh. And your source of this "fact"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattocheese

As far as the post skill>time bs. Its not true. The only ones whom have any skill are the ones that actually take time to do their own builds. Mostly everyone you see in PvP, Halls ect.. use premade builds on their bars.

The skill>time might be bs like you say... but your view is the SAME bs. Yes, people use cookie-cutter builds in PvP, but they also use cookie-cutter builds in PvE... and I would fully expect them to use those cookie-cutter builds to reach the level cap, whatever it is.

People who make their own builds will continue to do so, those that can't will use cookie-cutters. Makes no difference if the level cap is large or small.

JR · May 07, 2008, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baratus

Just a note, but half the people I have talked to left GW for WoW due to the cap. I am talking hundreds of players adding to the WoW population that I have spoken to, and God only knows how many others there are.

...and how many people were initially attracted Guild Wars because it was less grind inducing than WoW? I'd say a significant portion of the player base. Guild Wars is not, and never has been, a "WoW killer". ArenaNet should know that trying to tackle Blizzard is fairly futile, so appealing to a different kind of player is a more profitable route.

Personally I don't see the need for a higher level cap at all.

Starting at level 1 and working up is essentially how games of this type introduce a learning curve. If you were to start WoW with a level 60 Warlock (for example) it would probably feel a bit overwhelming and confusing. That is the main reason and basis behind the 'level' mechanic.

I'd say by the time you hit level 20 you have a fairly good basic understanding of the game. Possibly this could be increased to 30, but it has increasingly diminishing returns in terms of what the mechanic is actually trying to achieve.

People seem to be under the impression that higher level caps mean more content. Quite the opposite. Difficulty scales with level. At level 10 your are playing content designed roughly for your level, at level 50 your are playing content designed roughly for your level, at level 10000 you are still doing content designed for your level. With a high level cap (where you get benefits for going up in level) there is more content that you can't do because it is designed for other levels.

Level systems are just an illusion, essentially just a title that says "I have managed to get this much experience". Yet another title for people to discriminate by. People who farm endlessly with that one build (whatever is the GW2 version of the '55 Monk') will level up faster than most other players, and will have a massive advantage in getting into PuG groups despite it having little reflection on talent. To put it in simpler terms, if Guild Wars had no level cap them gold farming bots would be outstripping all but the most hardcore in terms of level.

The other downside to not having a level cap (as I explained in another thread) is it's like a title you can't ever max. The very hardcore players, say the top 0.1%, will love it. They have the time and the dedication to reach higher levels than anyone else and obtain the prestige that comes with that. The rest will feel like a donkey chasing a carrot on a stick; you know you will never actually get the carrot so what is the point in trying? It removes that incentive to max out.

Then there is alt characters. Why would you ever roll an alt when you may aswell play on that one high level toon you have to keep up with everyone else so you can still get into pug groups?

TLDR: Level caps are just an illusion that achieve very little in terms of adding to the gameplay. A level cap of 20 (in Guild Wars terms) fulfilled the goal of adding a learning curve, and that is all it ever needed to do.

Riot Narita · May 07, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Good post, JR

Jongo River · May 07, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I'd be happy to stick with 20 levels, but I wouldn't cry too much if it went up to 100, so long as the work required getting there is proportional to that of GW now. Getting to 20 only takes a few days (OK, hours for some), so getting to 100 should still be under a month. If maxing the character becomes the sole point of the game, though, I'd be pretty unimpressed.

I would also be concerned about artificial XP based higher levels, even if they don't add much (or any) power, because I doubt ANet will manage to balance farming across all classes and some will doubtless get cheap and easy ways to amass XP. For example my ele has done almost nothing of merit, but has almost as much XP as my main, because she's used for Raptor farming. I've only been doing that farm run on and off for a month - I imagine, by the end of the year, that she'll have several million more XP than characters I actually use for more respectable and varied activites. If there was a title or level for that, it would look like I was an experienced elementalist, when actually, nothing could be further from the truth.

Alex the Great · May 07, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

i voted for a level cap, because I like getting the sense that I "completed" the character. none of us know how long it will take to level up, so regardless of the level cap they pick, I am hopeing it takes a max of 50-80 hours played to reach it. as it stands now it takes 5-10 hours.

Alex Dimitri · May 07, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

This is MMO and it should have longevity (minimum lvl100), for those that say that`s too much i just ask WHY u suposed to play this game for LONG time what`s the use in reaching max lvl in few hours ??? It`s better to have 3 chars at lvl100 that are not finished game, then 8-12 chars lvl20 that have finished game (hope u understand me on this one) !
I`m more afraid for some other aspects of game, i would like the game world to be HUGE, much much bigger than it is now.I want to invest my TIME to discover it step by step NOT TO DO IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!!

A lot of people mentioned time and how some people don`t have life, why should you envy people who don`t have life and have max "everything" in game, maybe that`s their escape.Enjoy your RL and play the game for fun in free time and let people enjoy in whatever is fun for THEM !!!
So what if someone has max lvl of xxx and max armor so hard to obtain why should be i bothered with that. I play THE GAME for myself and the way i do it is my WAY (no mater if i invest 8 hrs or 30 min daily)!
In my humble opinion is better to INVEST 8 hours in something you LOVE then 2 hours in something u HATE !!!
What we do in our RL is personal thing, and if u want it like that in RL there`s a differences MUCH BIGGER than in any GAME, and they are much more unfair !!!

zwei2stein · May 07, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Dimitri

This is MMO and it should have longevity (minimum lvl100), for those that say that`s too much i just ask WHY u suposed to play this game for LONG time what`s the use in reaching max lvl in few hours ??? It`s better to have 3 chars at lvl100 that are not finished game, then 8-12 chars lvl20 that have finished game (hope u understand me on this one) !
I`m more afraid for some other aspects of game, i would like the game world to be HUGE, much much bigger than it is now.I want to invest my TIME to discover it step by step NOT TO DO IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!!

A lot of people mentioned time and how some people don`t have life, why should you envy people who don`t have life and have max "everything" in game, maybe that`s their escape.Enjoy your RL and play the game for fun in free time and let people enjoy in whatever is fun for THEM !!!
So what if someone has max lvl of xxx and max armor so hard to obtain why should be i bothered with that. I play THE GAME for myself and the way i do it is my WAY (no mater if i invest 8 hrs or 30 min daily)!
In my humble opinion is better to INVEST 8 hours in something you LOVE then 2 hours in something u HATE !!!
What we do in our RL is personal thing, and if u want it like that in RL there`s a differences MUCH BIGGER than in any GAME, and they are much more unfair !!!

Question: why do you play gw with such anti-gw mindset?

I mean, you are practically opposite of person this game was designed to. Why do you play game you hate instead of game you would like and which already exists?

Xugumad · May 07, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Levels 1-20/1-30 or so should be as GW 1. After that, it just keeps going up, and you get skill points as with GW 1, but it doesn't fundamentally change your character. So a level 20/30 can take on a level 100 as long as they're more skilled than the level 100.

Dropper · May 07, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Keep the level cap at 20.

PS. JR speaks the truth.

Xugumad · May 07, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Dimitri

This is MMO and it should have longevity (minimum lvl100), for those that say that`s too much i just ask WHY u suposed to play this game for LONG time what`s the use in reaching max lvl in few hours ??? It`s better to have 3 chars at lvl100 that are not finished game, then 8-12 chars lvl20 that have finished game (hope u understand me on this one) !

If all you seek from your entertainment is numbers going up, have you considered a digital calendar?

xmancho1 · May 07, 2008, 10:57 AM // 10:57

if GW2 will be PvP oriented then there should be a lvl cap ( 30,40 , 50 max ).
what i really enjoy in the game is that u dont have to wait like month or two to enter the high-end pve zones, and the pvp chars makes pvp entering something u wont bother with ure low lvl pve char. i have a very good idea about the lvl cap - make gaining lvls after u reached the max be like a title ,allowing ppl to turn it on and off when the wont , meaning that u can show off with ure lvl 118 but will not have difference with lvl 40 char in gear and stats.

pumpkin pie · May 07, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

my opinion is that our character's level will continue to rise. but there will be no benefit/effect, only shows that you've advance in level. at what level is the max will be decided by Arena Net.

example:
say the level cap is at 60. (i like 6) once our character reach 60, you don't get anymore attribute points, your skill damage/effect will stay at level 60 and what not, but our level will still continue to advance in numbers only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

maybe arena net is planning someting else for us, different level caps for doing different thing

excerpt
"It's meant to be a learn-by-doing sort of situation--rather than have overly complex skills that take an excessive amount of brain matter to understand, players will learn less complicated skills that they will be encouraged to test out in any situation they can think of. What happens if you use this skill while jumping, or that one while surrounded by monsters? Who knows? Give it a whirl and find out! Strain referred to it as "emergent complexity," and if it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket."

your poll is not complete therefore I cannot vote, if it was up to me it is a yes and no, read my self quote and if it was up to Arena Net I think it is different cap level for doing different thing.

Mr. Undisclosed · May 07, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

I agree with JR, lvl 20 cap sounds just fine to me.

Phoenix Tears · May 07, 2008, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothlorian Sassun

I think there should be a Cap on Attributes or how powerful you can become certainly. Lets say level 80 is as powerful as you can be but you can reach level 81 and so on. So if you see a Level 300 and a Level 80 you will know they are at the same power level but level 300 would simply have more exp.

that would be exactly the same shit, we have now, only with defined higher max level numbers, where in GW1 is no defined max level number and where you level infinite, but the level number stays ever at 20.

My main character for example has ~840 Skill Points earned yet minus the amount of Sp you get from quests lets say it are 830. This woldtheoretically mean, my main Character would be level 830, but shown gets only lvl 20. its really only the same crap...

No, GW2 needs to receive a real Gameplay Difference over GW1. There is more, than just reaching Level 100. like it has ben written her by others. Leveling IS FUN, as long you play normally the game and receive never the feeling of having to do excessive grinding to reach the next level.
But what anet did with GW1 was simple ridiculous. Reaching max level charas in under 1 day is retarded. Especially really when the game offers then after that nearly no content anymore, other than only stuff, that has to do with excessive grind and farming to offer long lerm motivation, which gets very quick boring and so does become the game then so too.

Leveling a character with a high level cap is one of the most best standart ways to give a game good long term motivation, when done the gameplay system very good and when the experience gain got very good balanced, so that leveling a character to max level doesn't mean to grind for an eternity.
1 and a half to 3 months of playing is no grind, a half year, thats the point, where steroetypical grind a la RO begins and from that has also GW enough in form of titles, enough of them in the game, which require way to much time to get maxed. So much time, that casual players have nearly no hope to get them ever maxed, or which are simple unreachable in a humanous tiem effort, when you have chosen for PvE titles for example, try now as pve player to get any pvp title maxed, before GW2 will come out.. impossible, especially with hero, where you must work on over 3 years, and we have still no single player, which maxed it -.- Hero title is the best example how to put into a game insane grind. Titles for online addicted base dwellers and no lifes... ya thats sure not the way, how a game like GW should be, nor hopefulyl not again GW2.

However, back to the point, that i realy wanted to point at:

When GW2 doesn't receive anythign new for its Character Development, that makes the game better over GW1, where is then there please the reason for the making of GW2 huh? Copy and paste everythign and converting from GW1 to GW2 simple makes no new better game >.< Then we could say direct, that GW2 will be only a stupid Remake with better graphics -.-

I personally really miss for the RPG flair about Leveling and training our characters the System, what is it about, why leveling a character with high cap makes so much fun. Leveling a character with cap of 100 makes sure not so much fun only, because it takes you longer time to work at and you see, how the level number raises lol

No, its the fact, that you as player will see, slowly, how your character becomes mightier and mightier, evolves with more trainign from a Nobody into a fearsome famous hero, and that you can make your character one day so strong, that you become more and more independend over party playing, because parties are something for weaklings. really strogn heroes fight alone a la Superman. its the feeling of being proud of your effort, when you created in a game with high level cap a strogn hero chara, that is able to solo nearly anywhere, except the very high end elite eras, which are made for maxed characters, where exists monsters, that are so strong, that even maxed characters have to party to stand over longer time a chance against the hordes of monsters.

The attribute System alone is way too boring and needs an serious improvement, not only because the game has too less attributes for their professions. Yet the only thign that GW's 2 class system with this attribute system is mostly able to provide us palyers are in the end only Wannabe professions, which don't look, don't move, nor don't really act like that, what we wanted to create exactly.
Also the attribute System alone offers not the fun of leveling a character, as logn the gainage of Attribut points is LIMITED for PvE, letting players be unable to max for their characters all their attributes, because the limitation of maximum 8 Skills for your Skill Bar is balancing enough, there's no reason for limited attribute points, when your SKill bar is limited to a max amount of 8 Skills.

Also I hope GW2 receives beneath an advanced better attribute system, that Gw2 will have a traditional Stat System.
because this system is it exactly, what makes leveling a character with high level cap so much fun.

Getttign with EACH level more Stat Points, that the player is free to choose to where put them at, be it your Strength Stat, your Vitality, Intelligence, Wisdom, Luck, Agility, Courage or whatever.

Because Stat systems are it, which allow players to create really unique individual Characters, not such silly Attribute Systems. Stat Systems are much more a kind of Character Fine Tuning, than anything else, because the player can decide, if he'she strengthens more the strengths of his/her charact,er or if you decide yourself to work a bit on the characters weaknesses so that they become with training no so strong, that they will stay dangerous for your character, when you meet on enemies, that will know your character's weak point. Somethign I ever missed in GW. Characters in GW are all the same, no one has real specific pros or cons. When you fight agaisnt an other players, you can#t find there on your foe weak points, to deal more damage agaisnt them or so, other the stereotypical knowledge, that you will know, that you will do with elemental damage more damage against certain professions.
But that are only profession based pros and cons, no individual character stat based ones
The basic problem of older MMORPGs with Stat systems was only , that the devs of thsoe games made ever the same failure with it, about making the decisions, a player made with Stat Points not resetable, and when, then you got ever forced to pay an increadible high amount of ingame money, or even real money, what is much worser, only therefore ,that you could get a Stat reset -.-
No, theres GW's system much better. its no problem to give GW2 a character based individual Stat System, AS LONG YOUR STAT POINTS ARE EVER RESETABLE, LIKE YOUR ATTRIBUTES !!!.

Because then players will have no regret and it will be not crucial, if you "miss-skilled" your Character in Stat Points, then you just reset them, and put the points new, which would be able to do say once every week for no fee and only when you change it more often, than once in a week, than you have to pay a little fee of say 1 Platin. I think thats a system, peopel can live with.

@arcane: wtf cares about, if you read my posts, or not, I do care a shit about it, if you do, or not ... stop the trolling, It gets annoying.