Curse

Dylananimus · May 14, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

He is talking griffon farming. I dont think he played any time recently.

Anyone mentioning grind in GW would go for reputation titles to showcase grind.

I guess articles could be rewritten like this:

Long time ago i tried GWs. First, I tried that PvP thingie and was getting owned seriously. All i remember is loosin heluva hp while being snared. Clearly, It was imba and you had to grind a lot to become imba like that too (cuz you need to grind to get power in every game .. gw cant be different, right?).

Sins you cant get better throught leveling, it must be items, so you hafta farm them!

So i went to farm stuff. It was boring, but reaaaallly needed to do that, y know. And uw was not open so i sat there for hour waiting for it to open. That was pretty grindy.

I also faintly remember doing missions and hoping for good drops. Guess that was grind too. Because like ... doing mission didnt give me drops so i though i hafat to moar of them. So i like ... did. Grind!

PS: i might have not figured out that i can equip unlocked items on pvp character, because i think that i can only get runes for it with gold.

---

Author seems to be totally clueless.

LOL...I think you hit it spot on

BlackSephir · May 14, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

If one can find fun in it, so no it's not grinding for him(though I doubt anyone could). And your point is?

Let compare the concept of grinding to happiness, and you'll get a better picture.

The point is simple- the fact that you're having fun by flagging heroes in the same place, using the same build, doing the same quest which takes even almost the same amount of time doesn't change the fact that it's grind.

El Presidente · May 14, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I laughed, sighed and stopped reading after this part. If I missed anything after it worth reading, let me know.

You didn't miss anything...

The Meth · May 14, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I laughed, sighed and stopped reading after this part. If I missed anything after it worth reading, let me know.

There was quite a bit more laughing to be had.

doudou_steve · May 14, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Wow, the author seems to be frustrated because he lost vs a mursaat casting spectral agony on him.

If only he knew what Infused Armor is.

Btw, what's bad about grinding? In gw, it dosent affect the gameplay( beside ursans), and you do not need to GRIND to be the best!

The Meth · May 14, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

Wow, the author seems to be frustrated because he lost vs a mursaat casting spectral agony on him.

If only he knew what Infused Armor is.

Btw, what's bad about grinding? In gw, it dosent affect the gameplay( beside ursans), and you do not need to GRIND to be the best!

Now we just have to figure out which tricky bastard managed to use that skill in PvP, then get the method to do so out of him!

Good job finding the actual skill the writer was describing, I thought he was just 100% BS, now I know the writer is only 99% BS along with being too stupid to be able to distinguish PvE from PvP.

I Can Cure Cancer · May 14, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Lol, he doesn't play Guildwars at all. He obviously doesn't know that getting items and equipment takes no time at all unless you buy the game and start out trying to HA before you've even gotten off noob-island. He never even went into titles or ursan which is what most GW players view as grind. Compare the GW weapongrind to that of WoW. At least we don't have uberswords of uberleetpwnageofuberleetness like WoW does.

enter_the_zone · May 14, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralgha

PvE Guild Wars is nothing but grind. Think about it, there is only one thing to do in PvE Guild Wars, KILL MOBS. That's it. There is nothing else. Crafting you say? All crafing is, is collecting a bunch of materials (by KILLING MOBS), and then handing them to a crafter, who hands you your item. Some of these crafters you can't even get to unless you, wait for it, KILL MOBS.

Titles? Same thing. Cartographer, you kill mobs, or run from mobs trying to kill you if you really want to get particular. Vanqush, that's whole point is killing mobs. Skill capper? Kill specific mobs. Missions? Kill mobs, to get to a point, which requires you to kill mobs.

Hell you can't even travel without killing mobs. Want to go do a dungeon? Well with a few exceptions, you gotta kill mobs to get to it, or run from mobs trying to kill you. Once you get to the dungeon, what do you do there? Kill mobs.

Want to go look at some of the scenery? Gotta kill mobs first. Open some chests? Gotta kill mobs to get there, or run from mobs trying to kill you.

I've mostly left GW behind and moved on to EVE, because EVE has things to do besides kill mobs.

I really laughed at that. You moved from GW to the most grind based game in the World (EVE), and you complain about GW having grind. Priceless.

Free Runner · May 14, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Now we just have to figure out which tricky bastard managed to use that skill in PvP, then get the method to do so out of him!

Its probably the same tricky bastard who is convincing him Prophecies is still the only game in the series,titles and the PvP Equipment window dont exist and griffon farming is worth it.

Mewcatus · May 14, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I am surprised actually, at how shallow many players have become, just because someone writes something bad about their pet game.

1st off. The writers definition of Grinding:

It means constantly repeating something in order to reach your goal, of which the most common instance is repetitively pressing a button or clicking the mouse in order to kill monsters, all in hopes of leveling up and getting more powerful and access to more of the games content.

2nd: The wiki definition of Grinding:
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind_%28gaming%29

Grinding is a term used in computer gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game... ... .

Base definition:

To Grind means to do one task the most efficient way possible in a repetitious manner.

That being said. If noticed, that by Wiki's definition, the writer isn't actually isn't so far off.

Many people fail to see that, he is simply drawing up a case that even in a apparently low grind game like GWs, grind still exists.

Granted that the writer is indeed somewhat backdated and negative in his perspective of the GW games, and was mentioning old features. But try this: Assume that the game as it was when he wrote it ( When game was still in Prophecies, without Factions / Night Fall / EotN ) and how much of it, can you actually say is not true, at that point in time.

I noticed that a majority of the posters here failed to actually take the whole article, read it, and try to digest the main factors he is trying to put out.

So, to all of those who are still wearing those coloured shades. I will put forth what the writer is trying to get at:

1. "You just can't eliminate a grind."

Going by the Wiki and base definition. This is actually true. But Grind can also be fun too. Some people actually like to a particular activity over and over again.

This is almost true for all games. ( Hell, if you do want to get better a game, you would repeat doing it until you can do it well, right ? ).

Remember, even simple games like tetris, minesweeper can be grinds. You are just simply doing it over again and again, when you want to do it well. Whether you enjoy it, is another matter.

You know those games on facebook ? They can actually be considered a grind too, if you find yourself doing it repetivitivly over and over again.

If the writer also bothered to show case other simple examples like the games above, I mentioned above, you might find what he has written more digestable. ( He did mention a racing game though, but I guess he gave huge referential weightage over to GWs as his main point ).

2. " ... ... game developers attempt to hide the grind. They don't want you to know it's there, not because it's a secret, but because anytime that the grind is so obvious you can detect it without having to think at all the game is going to get boring and old, quickly."

This is another main point. Take a step back, and look at how the writer described GWs. Without taking the negativity of the article too personally. You would just about see that, he is actually quite on the ball.

Here is his summary take on why grind exists in GWs.

" In games like Guild Wars however, they hide it and have you do challenging missions to distract you, missions gamers will enjoy. These keep your mind off of the fact is, all you're doing is killing monsters in order to get items. But once you get to the end and find yourself repeating missions for items and achievements, you'll understand that the grind is still certainly there. "

Finally, his end argument :

" So stop dreading the grind, start embracing it. It'll make gaming a lot easier so you're not switching games every two weeks. "

His end statement is actually quite off, he should instead be saying: " Look for a game which has grind which is pleasurable/acceptable to the you. "

That would have played alot better in his reinforcing the points he initally set out to state.

P.S. That being said, I am somewhat puzzled by how some of the posters here attack Asian gamers, with regards to grind.

If they actually don't realise it, they are really no different from the so called hard core gamers. Slightly cleaner pots calling the kettles black.

Just because you have different levels of tolerance for grind, doesn't mean you can go around calling others extreme.

Case in point : By the base definition, even studying can be a grind. How do you intend to bridge the divide between students who are just academically gifted and those who studied hard to attain their dreams ?

Balan Makki · May 14, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

That is the stupidest article this forum has ever directed me too. Utterly clueless. Obviously playing the game for a few days qualifies this knucklehead to waist bandwidth.

. . . someone else finish it for me, I couldn't get past the broken grammar on the first page.

yum · May 15, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

The point is simple- the fact that you're having fun by flagging heroes in the same place, using the same build, doing the same quest which takes even almost the same amount of time doesn't change the fact that it's grind.

Grinding = a mental state, so yes it does.

Malice Black · May 15, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

This says it all http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Guild_Wars

dread pirate fargus · May 15, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

guild wars never has and never will force you to grind in order to play the game and enjoy it. titles and vanity items are there for hardcore gamers who like grind. collector weapons and 1k armour are there for those who just want to play through the game.

never anywhere is guildwars are you required to grind in order to finish the game. i have finished nightfall on a character who has only lvl 1-2 lightbringer, un-runed armour, and an uncustomised 3k chor's axe. paid for everything including armour just from merching drops and even had money leftover to buy a minipet. in factions you get your 10k 'befriending' lux or kurz faction just from doing a couple of easy and short quests. hell when i first did prophecies i didnt even have an elite skill. back then i was a casual player and never once did i feel i had to grind to play the game normally. then when i got more into guild wars i ended up getting things like LDoA and a few sets of fow armour, and i didnt mind because i wanted something to distinguish me as a very active and truthfully non-casual gamer.

Edit* and reading that article makes me cringe. he is an idiot

Nevin · May 15, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

When you're using a base skill that does 30 damage on your opponent and he's attacking back with a skill that freezes you for five seconds, and drains fifty health a second for ten seconds with a seven second recharge time, how the hell can skill help you out there? It can't.

He has no idea what he's talking about. He sound like he logged in, joined an AB match and rushed into a mob...

Liberations · May 15, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

That person hasn't played Guild Wars much if he/she doesn't know what faction is or titles are.. And they spoke so matter-of-factly. People who haven't played a game through should never judge them like that.

50 damage a second for 10 seconds as well as freezing you for a 7 second recharge... what the hell? So your saying you can have a single skill that you can spam that deals 500 damage and use it again shortly after your opponent was able to move again... idiot. Pfff some characters don't even have 500 health at level 20.

lyra_song · May 15, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Breathing is such a grind.

Boondocksaints · May 15, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

GW has minimal grind if you don't want to do it. Getting some elite skills you need is hardly "grind." Likewise, if you want grind, there's plenty of it- titles, tormented weapons, etc.

lyra_song · May 15, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The writer is saying...that the game itself....missions, quests, etc. are grinds.
Which, if you break it down to this simple definition, then the game is a grind.
Every game is a grind if you use this definition.

Pacman is a grind. EAT dots.
Streetfighter is a grind. KO the other guy
Team Fortress 2 is a grind. Kill the other guy, capture the flag/point.
Any sports game is a grind.
Any racing game is a grind.

Thats really not such a bad thing, since its enjoyable. And at the very least, you get to see the storyline.

I think its just dumb to look at it with such a simple definition, when its not the individual action itself that makes the gameplay fun, but also graphics, story, interaction, etc.

Operative 14 · May 15, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

<snip>
But try this: Assume that the game as it was when he wrote it ( When game was still in Prophecies, without Factions / Night Fall / EotN )
<snip>

As far as we know, this was written quite recently since it was published yesterday.

You bring up good points in your post, but I think that the majority of players are commenting on the fact that the author picked obscure or obtuse areas to draw examples from, while leaving the rest of the game alone. No one here, I have seen, is down casting the author simply because he is attacking GW, but because he seems to make examples and conjectures based upon seemingly very little experience in the game.