Curse

Mewcatus · May 13, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

I doubt most people actually complained about PvE and PvP using the same skillset, but those who did were certainly the loudest and most obnoxious to make Anet force their hand.

Without taking sides.

The opposite end can also throw the same accusation back, and eventually, it just turns out to be a full fledged flinging mud session.

Red Sonya · May 13, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Splitting PVE from PVP was the best thing they've ever done. I'm so glad it's finally here and going to be in GW2 as well. Yes, this does prove Anet listens to those they should listen to. Sometimes it takes time, but, welp patience is a virtue.

Bront · May 13, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

note why hard mode improved enemy hp/lvl/casting time/few skills/etc, but it didn't improve enemy AI.

Actualy, they improved the scattering AI, and some monsters have a better AI in HM (the dopleganger is a particular example)

Before panicing, should we perhaps wait and see how many skills will get this treatment? I don't think it's going to be every skill will have a PvP and PvE version, only a select few.

Artisan Archer · May 13, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

everything in PvE will be buffed not nerfed...

Oh? You can look into the future? (Or do you completely understand Anet's actions)

Alicendre · May 13, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Well, they sure listen to the community more than most companies.

Not sure whether this is good or bad... But I've always wanted this update. So yeah...

Cab Tastic · May 13, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Yes, my first thought was that this was the correct thing to do. We will see in the coming months how much of an effect this has on the people who play both PVE and PvP(like myself). It could be a bit confusing but I am sure it will not be that hard to get used to.

One post earlier mentioned that to Anet, PVE pays the bills. I don't know what the proportion is but it in my estimation it must be over 90% play PVE only. Its just bad business to consistently annoy your biggest customers

C2K · May 13, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Oh? You can look into the future? (Or do you completely understand Anet's actions)

Well, they didn't want to keep the last skill update(which was awesome) because they were afraid it would ruin "PvE Balance".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Without taking sides.

The opposite end can also throw the same accusation back, and eventually, it just turns out to be a full fledged flinging mud session.

The opposite end never started hundreds of threads in Riverside and Sardelac saying "PvE and PvP should never be separated". So, one thing learned out of all of this, if you spam Elite fansites about your gripes and complaints long enough, Anet buckles.

So, maybe if a thousand topics saying "PvE and PvP shouldn't be separated" were created across all the fansites, they'll reverse their decision. It all depends is the people who care actually care enough to do it, or if they rather just leave it alone and play another game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

.

One post earlier mentioned that to Anet, PVE pays the bills. I don't know what the proportion is but it in my estimation it must be over 90% play PVE only. Its just bad business to consistently annoy your biggest customers

Its probably close to:

5% PvE only
5% PvP only
90% Both

Turbobusa · May 13, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Oh? You can look into the future? (Or do you completely understand Anet's actions)

Simple:

PvE:
-Nerf: ZOMG dey nurft mai build i quitz!
-Buff: Yay i luvz Anet you guyz

PvP:
-Nerf: Yay finally but nao dis is too late
-Buff: ZOMG evrissing is imba nao

You want to please both, what do you do? split em, buff for pve, nerf for pvp.

\o/

wilkinscs1 · May 13, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Anet was just trying to please the majority. There is a lot more people that ONLY play PvE or ONLY play PvP and not as many people who play both actively.

Mewcatus · May 13, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

We would probably seeing the 1st of this changes very soon. Guess its lab rat time. We are all gonna end up as human-behaviour test monkeys for the next couple of weeks. As long as they don't gas us, we should live through it.

Avarre · May 13, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

But for me it gives me a sense of comfort knowing that Anet have considered our opinion faithfully.

It gives me a sense of dread that ANet listens to the average player for game-shaping decisions rather than the players with extensive experience with how the game works.

Then again, considering how they handled the Alpha, I'm not surprised.

Mewcatus · May 13, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It gives me a sense of dread that ANet listens to the average player for game-shaping decisions rather than the players with extensive experience with how the game works.

Then again, considering how they handled the Alpha, I'm not surprised.

How many players are there in the average department ? How many players are there in the extensive experience department ?

Which of the the groups should they satisfy ? Who do you think pays the pays the larger proportion of the revenue ?

Once you answer all these questions, you will very soon realise that from their perspective, it is the correct way to do things.

Avarre · May 13, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Once you answer all these questions, you will very soon realise that from their perspective, it is the correct way to do things.

The problem is most players don't know what they want. Most of the changes suggested by players give a very slight superficial gratification and in the long run would wreck the game.

There is a reason some people are game devs and others are not.

Turbobusa · May 13, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

It's business vs gameplay.

DarkNecrid · May 13, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Oh? You can look into the future? (Or do you completely understand Anet's actions)

no, look at Soul Reaping, Splinter Weapon, and Paragons. When SR was nerfed, people said they were gonna delete their Necros in PvE. SR still is the best e-management / primary attribute in the game. When SW was nerfed, Rangers said they were gonna delete their char, when the DPS was BARELY lowered. Every single Para nerf is "omg my para is useless" nevermind the fact they are still the most IMBA class in the game.

Mewcatus · May 13, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The problem is most players don't know what they want. Most of the changes suggested by players give a very slight superficial gratification and in the long run would wreck the game.

There is a reason some people are game devs and others are not.

Like Turbobusa sums it up nicely.

Business vs Gameplay.

Anywayz, GW is reaching to the end of its active product cycle life. Anet has already milked its profits.

They are see no harm if they turn GW into a experimental lab for changes. Even if all hell breaks loose, the most is, all the old GW players quit.

Then at the time, probably GW 2 starts, and they would have learned alot and know how far they can afford to stretch players. Even in this case, they have scored an advantage.

Reduced overall Bandwidth utility for the original GW, can only be advantegeous to Anet cost wise.

Plus, given that the promise was made that new GW 2 players will not be disadvantaged, game play wise compared to players who migrated from GW, will have the potential to create a new fanbase, if the old decides to go.

So, even in the worst case scenario for them, in a warped sort of way, they still win.

That is why, I say, prepare for a hell alot of drastic things to come in this final chapter of GW's product cycle life.

Eru Valenehtar · May 13, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Awesome, another topic on this. And I see many of the same faces from the others. You guys know, everything seems bad when it's not here yet. I say you keep, atleast the strong oppinions of this change subdued until it is actually released. I'm sure we'll learn to live with it.

Avarre · May 13, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Like Turbobusa sums it up nicely.

Business vs Gameplay.

That's well known, and it's entirely the problem. The more mainstream ANet forces its game, the more competition it will run into from every other identical online RPG, and the more irrelevant it will become.

I'd imagine if ANet stuck with their original plan and developed it, the mass exposure from competitive play/subsequent sponsor support could have gotten a fair profit for them. However, the risk-free mainstream PvE game was apparently more appealing.

The game has been in decline since the end of the GWWCs.

Magikarp · May 13, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

They listened to you, not me. I wouldn't shut up about how bad an idea it is.

what this guy said..

mafia cyborg · May 13, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

they just listened to a vocal minority that congragates on this site.
the balance of skills can only happen in pvp where skills are compared vs each other. pve players should not be concerned with pvp balance changes.
what u witness in pve is the effectiveness of a skill towards the current AI.
if the AI changes or composition of mobs changes.....even the pve balance changes.
example: mobs scattering on aoe made aoe spells not as broken as they were before .
if they made Ai even more advanced detecting and avoiding traps, a very strong pve speciality like trapping would turn into very weak without no change to the actual skills.
and the composition of mobs ....usually just a numerous gang ....a piled up mess of mobs .....which turns pve into "how many mobs can i hit at once" and aoe fest which leave classes like mesmers disadvantaged for not havin great aoe damage. it would be much different if u were facing off mobs groups resembling a proper pvp team.
AI and mob composition determin the pve balance. some ppl understand it....most not and whine about skill balances.