Curse

Haskell · May 24, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

This is a capitulation.

Well okay, there is always a decision to be made. Either you make a really good game or you make a game for the stupid masses. Anet/NCSoft has decided for the latter. Can't blame them tough, - EA does it all the time.

It's still sad.

Musei Karasu · May 24, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

(57 assuming 6 rezzes).

You run a rez on your flagger or something? Cuz' I only count 5 rezzes on almost all teams.

Avarre · May 24, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Again I remind you of the HUGE amounts of gold you'd make from winning halls. Just about every old-school GvG player was born in tombs, because guilds were born in tombs, and sigils sold for A LOT; if Kaon happened to read this section, I'm sure he'd share just how much gold he and his friends made in the past.
Then there's also people that made millions out of exploiting the first price reset, that dropped 40k/ea runes to 100g/ea and was never rolled back. And then there's people that made a living out of scamming (hi vanq).

What I'm saying is, PvP players are masters at abusing stuff: any "hardcore" PvPer that made money, made it in the shortest possible way. I consider "playing PvE" as actually going through the game yourself, without getting your toons boosted by guildies or spending your time between GvGs in UW with your 55 monk.

I have no idea how to respond to this because at this point it's clear you have no actual information and are inventing facts to suit yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rift

It would be suicide not to cater to the majority of "bad" players -- they are the cash-cow of this industry. Veterans like us generate very little revenu, especially since there are no monthly fees.

True, but I'd place a veteran as a much more valuable asset to the game. Veterans can make more valuable suggestions, and are the core of the playerbase itself.

Anet definitely needs to make the game inviting to newer players, but they can do that by adjusting the learning curve - dropping the bar of skill for the entire game, including areas designed for veteran players, is a poor method. Anet doesn't need to alienate the most devoted part of its playerbase to cater to the rest.

Mewcatus · May 24, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I have no idea how to respond to this because at this point it's clear you have no actual information and are inventing facts to suit yourself.

True, but I'd place a veteran as a much more valuable asset to the game. Veterans can make more valuable suggestions, and are the core of the playerbase itself.

Anet definitely needs to make the game inviting to newer players, but they can do that by adjusting the learning curve - dropping the bar of skill for the entire game, including areas designed for veteran players, is a poor method. Anet doesn't need to alienate the most devoted part of its playerbase to cater to the rest.

In a warped way, alienating them is actually good. Getting rid of old blood, helps to create a new generation of players, those who are willing to accept newly made changes.

History does matter, but the world changes as time goes on. What some Veterans know, may not be applicable as time passes on. They are too far in their own world to come out to admit they may be wrong.

New players and casual ones on the other hand, especially those who do not come to the forums, might have a huge different opinion, and might be willing to accept changes more willingly.

And it is this group they should focus on. They represent the majority, those are rarely heard and may never be. Anet would do a much better job, asking the Devs and Gms to speak to the players playing within the game itself, rather then refer to the ones who come here.

Listening to the vocal forum posters, is actually a bad choice, especially just listening to a core group. They remind me of nothing more then a bunch of elitist hell bend that their mentality and methodology is the only way to go.

Let Anet do their own things. So many doomsday prophets, so much fanfare, from a molehill.

Avarre · May 24, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

In a warped way, alienating them is actually good. Getting rid of old blood, helps to create a new generation of players, those who are willing to accept newly made changes.

Are you really saying that ANet getting rid of players that understand what makes their game good is a good idea, so that they can freely make their game suck?

Godwin's law is straining to show itself here.

Quote:

Let Anet do their own things.

I think we've seen where that leads.

Lopezus · May 24, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

What i don't understand is why so many people are considering pve being ruined by current updates, or any previous pve orientated updates (introducing heros, pve skills ,consumables etc). Can someone logically explain to me how these changes affects ones gameplay ? The way i see it there is no connection between my gameplay and other people's gameplay. So there are ursan gruops all over the place for like 8 or 9 months and really i havn't experienced any change in the way i play GW.

zwei2stein · May 24, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Are you really saying that ANet getting rid of players that understand what makes their game good is a good idea, so that they can freely make their game suck?

Thats all about POV. Those people can THINK they are improving game. It is classical chain:

Its too hard -> gimma imba power to overcome it -> Its booooring, i did everything already, this game sucks -> gib me enemis imba power so that i can feel challenged -> zomg zomg, i cant beat em. Its too hard -> gimma imba power to overcome it ...

Over and over again. People dont know what is good for game but they think they know it, so this happens. Either game is unplayably hard or damn too easy. Both makes people quit and/or complain. And devs always overreact and push stuff way too far.

Anyway, i think new players are not problem. Hell, they are usually totally confused by most of stuff and have no idea what game is about so of course they will accept any new stuff ... because they have no idea what it is to being with because it will likely take months before it starts to matter to them.

Problem are veterans: entitlement. People who played for X years feel entitled to be succesfull in elites/hm. For them stuff like ursan is godsend because it makes "i played 3 years, i deserve full uw clear" possible. Other problem is that some veterans are simply bored of good old gw and want changes ... any changes, instead of seeking new game. And then we have returning veterans who were playing other mmos in meantime and started to think that some stuff should be in gw because it worked in other games. Those people are on forums and make themselves heard.

Age · May 24, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

The majority of PvPers do not use PvP-only editions.

Get that silly concept out of your empty heads. Go on observer mode for once, what do you see?

Crystalline swords, Tormented Weapons, FoW armor, EotN armor, Voltaic Spears, et RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing cetera. A lot HA for it, but a lot PvE for it. Where do they get the money for it? They must pve at some point. And to get the armor, they have to pve to get to the crafter.

Really, don't throw that bullshit fallacy into the argument, you're quite honestly being retarded.

The ones I know don't PvE at all but they don't post on these boards and they get that stuff by selling what is in HoH chest or Z. Keys.I know a lot who hate PvE and they don't do it because of the grind oh they may have 1 or 2 PvE toons around but they hardly use them.They aren't on these boards though.

DutchSmurf · May 24, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

New players and casual ones on the other hand, especially those who do not come to the forums, might have a huge different opinion, and might be willing to accept changes more willingly.

And it is this group they should focus on. They represent the majority, those are rarely heard and may never be. Anet would do a much better job, asking the Devs and Gms to speak to the players playing within the game itself, rather then refer to the ones who come here.

Problem with those majority is that they are never heard. So it is impossible to know what they want. Making it impossible to focus on them. Not sure what your idea behind it was, but I don't see how you can focus on something you can't see.

On the other hand forums can be a nice tool to get information, as long as you filter out all clueless people. Which is very easy to do and should be part of the community manager(s). That doesn't mean that the post left are always 'right', but if you filter correctly you are left with the people making a good argument.
Over the last year, many people have made those great arguments. But Anet always ignored them. Or did listen, but in a way that made it only worse. I think anyone here can think of examples of that. Anyway, I'm not saying they should listen to the forums. I think they should listen to the few good posts that still show up from time to time, no matter who made them.

DreamWind · May 24, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

C'mon guys. Quit hanging your elitism on a peg, you're making it too easy.

The more you do it, the less the game makers will pay attention.

The game makers clearly already aren't paying attention. The "elitists" are simply the people who have realized this and actually criticize terrible updates to the game. But since they never hear us anyways, we are all talking to ourselves here.

Rift · May 24, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

True, but I'd place a veteran as a much more valuable asset to the game. Veterans can make more valuable suggestions, and are the core of the playerbase itself.

Anet definitely needs to make the game inviting to newer players, but they can do that by adjusting the learning curve - dropping the bar of skill for the entire game, including areas designed for veteran players, is a poor method. Anet doesn't need to alienate the most devoted part of its playerbase to cater to the rest.

Again from a purely business standpoint, veterans are more of a liability than an asset. They've already got their money's worth (calculate your investment, divide by the hours you've played) but still consume CPU cycles and bandwidth, and have developed a strong sense of entitlement when dealing with change.

Unfortunately, GW1 was not designed with the Veteran PVEer in mind. Once you reached a certain skill level, the original design prescribed that you would turn to PVP for new challenges. As we know this is not how things turned out, and Anet has tried many formulas and patches to attempt to accomodate this playerbase. However, with the flaw being in the design itself, the optimal fix becomes too costly to properly implement without starting with a new slate.

samifly · May 26, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Vets may be a valuable asset in some games, but in GW, from a strictly financial perspective, you've make the same amount of money from a enthused newbie and a experienced vet, and the vet has been using up your server.