Curse

Abedeus · May 25, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

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Yes, they are. Period. If you don't think so, why use them? Or is it just: "Oh, well they're better than all the other skills the Imbago... I mean Paragon has, but they ain't no Ursan!" Well, can't argue with that logic! Keep abusi... mean using it. No, you're not being hypocritical.

Because paragon's have so many ways of being useful in PvE. Defensive Anthem, Stunning Strike... and... um... Eeee... Imbagon.
Plus, it's one build. Ursan is one skill better than Imbagon. And 6 ursans are better than 6 imbagons. Oh, and I think that since I'm a hypocrite, I'm going to start playing the old school - Mesmer/Necro minion master/illusion/domination/blood magic or Ranger/Elem with fire storm and glyph + point blank shot + pet. That'll be awesome!

And if you REALLY want to know the difference between Diablo 2 and an RPG game - ask around the net. Go to ANY HnS/RPG forum and people will tell you the difference. Very simple:
- RPG - main focus on roleplaying and dialogs.
- HnS - SLASH THE HELL OUT OF ANYTHING!! TONS AND TONS OF IMBA MONSTERS THAT 1 PERSON CAN KILL! Sometimes more than one, but yeah.

Don't see the difference? Guess that's why you don't see GW is getting worse and worse.

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Of course, except that the features I mentioned earlier (character progression, loot, dungeons, and random hit and damage calculations) must all be present in order to be considered an RPG (though dungeons are optional). Other features include quests, plot, etc. Do any of those games have all these features? Does Diablo or Guild Wars? There's you're answer.

Yeah, most of them have quests and a complicated plot. Few examples for quests (because almost all games have plot, except for Tetris and pingpong):

Crysis - Clear the village, then find hostage and secure the position.
Assassin's Creed - All investigations are quests. All. One is kill a target, other is find/protect the informer, and some are pickpocket missions.
Rune - Well, that's a pure hack and slash, so the main point is to go and kill everything on the way. One quest - avenge your tribe.
Hitman - Each mission has few quests, then you escape/mission ends in older games.
Gears of War - every few minutes you finish a quest and end one too. They are linear, but so are quests in Diablo 2 - you can't finish Act 3 quests before you end Act 1. I mean you can with cheats and if you finish the last quest in the act... but that's like cheating anyway.
Psi-Ops - same, for example, plant a bomb, solve a puzzle.
Rayman 3 - hm, first few quests can be like, looking for your arms (lol, the game's great, rly), then stopping the main foe, then taking your friend to few doctors, defeating bosses (IN THEIR DUNGEONS!!!)

Even in sport and race games you have quests. No? xd

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Attributes in numeric value is a defining factor? The bars you see are simply visual representations of numeric values. You're kidding yourself if you think that is sooo much different to warrant even mentioning.

There is also something about different systems that RPGs use (and some cRPGs, since you don't see the difference), like dices. In Diablo 2 the only thing you care about is how much health you got and how big damage you deal. Everything else is (except for PvP, where you need to think a bit) not important.

Eh. And since HnS = RPG, then I guess that a tractor = car? But car = new lamborgini. See the difference? No? Then go back to your tractor, I mean car.

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If you don't like GW anymore. Then please stop posting here.

If you don't like your country anymore, please emigrate somewhere else.

Antheus · May 25, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Compter RPGs in general depend on dice rolls. Action games rely on twitch.

Diablo is a merge between the two. It's a hack'n'slash with strong RPG elements. While at pure mechanical level the outcome is dice based, actual combat is twitch based.

WoW or LotR are pure RPGs. Every action is determined by dice roll. While for some actions position matters, it's just an extra condition.

Gears of War is an FPS. Point-and-shoot. There's tactical and strategic elements, and each level has some form of a quest/mission/story structure. While not as elaborate, it's the same model as one used by Wolfenstein 3D.

All FPS today have assimilated some minor RPG elements. COD, Gears, and all others. But ultimately, they are still FPS.

There's a hybrid genre within *Shock series. System Shock popularized a strongly story-driven, RPG based FPS hybrid. Within this niche genre, all three elements are represented equally strong. As such, the *Shock series doesn't fit into any (Deus Ex is also an example). They can all be played in diverse way, and while point-and-shoot is always present, without exception the choice of encounters is very diverse.

*All* RPG games however are video-game versions of DnD model. While some elements (xp, level, skill, dice, armor, strength, ....) are ubiquitous to computer games of all types today, they were formally defined for pen-and-paper DnD games.

Since the number crunching model was so suitable for computers, SSI was first to offer 1-to-1 conversion of those games to computers. MUDs did the same online games. As technology advanced, these concepts were distilled into a broad range of RPG-like games, including all of today's MMORPGs.

The keyword for today is "blending". As we move into increasingly larger productions, blending of genres and styles is the key to future. X-Box Live had great success, WoW had another.

The near future will soon bring "X-Box live" for entire game market. Where each player transitions between games, between playstyles, where achievements are shared and where social networking plays huge role.

This will be the next paradigm shift in online gaming. Until then, it's all just EQ and Diablo legacy, and nothing more, no matter how it's called.

1 up and 2 down · May 25, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

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Originally Posted by Abedeus

If you don't like your country anymore, please emigrate somewhere else.

There is a difference between having to leave your country because you hate it. And not posting on a forum anymore because you don't like the game.

The difference is, I don't have to listen to everyone that hates their country. But on this forum, I have to try and wade through everyones moronic posts about why they hate GW; just so I can find a post that is constructive and not the usual whiny post.

Abedeus · May 25, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

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Originally Posted by Antheus

a lot of things

Agree, although the point is that some people don't see the difference between TRUE RPG's and hack'n'slashes.

And that the main point of the thread is ,,GW is still a King?''. And the answer is, no matter if we look at it as HnS, RPG or just Online-only game, no, it's not a king. For a year it was, then WoW was at least as good, but after Factions and Nightfall it became worse. Yeah, add-ons make sometimes the game worse if people MUST have them to do something other people can. They don't buy, they can't play with other players. And they have harder time.

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The difference is, I don't have to listen to everyone that hates their country. But on this forum, I have to try and wade through everyones moronic posts about why they hate GW; just so I can find a post that is constructive and not the usual whiny post.

Sorry, I love to chew gum and give wise answers. But I have only gum left, used all answers. I gave many reasons, why GWEN made GW much, much worse. And I don't HATE this game. I wouldn't log on at least every day to a game I hate. It's just like an old car - you bought a new engine, but it turns out that car is slower, fuel to it costs a lot more and there are better ways to move around.

Red Sonya · May 25, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

They all grow boring over time that's nothing new, and the only reason GW is a draw to come back to is because it has "no monthly fee". But, it's still the same boring game once it becomes boring. Nothing really to do unless you want to play the grind wars game of it. Once the story and all the missions and quests are done it's like any other offline rpg like a Diablo 2 or Neverwinter Nights except NWN's has over 3000 other stories and adventures you can play and GW dies at four (prop, fac, nf and gwen). That's the one I find myself playing most lately. I recently purchased the "Titan Quest Gold" edition for $10 and I'm playing through that, for those that are loot RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs Titan Quest is definitely the game for you I find myself having to go back to town to sell stuff almost after every battle definitely get your moneys worth in loot to play around with though it suffers from the same problem GW suffers from not enough loot storage space.

Oh and as far as "King" goes as always WOW is the King and has been for several years now. It has sold more copies (10 million and growing) AND has a substantial subscriber population paying an additional $15 a MONTH on top of those sales. I doubt any game will ever topple WOW from those types of figures Blizzard has proven what people want and who the real KING of MMORPG is.

Abedeus · May 25, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

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Originally Posted by RedNova88

wall of garbage

Hm, dunno why I missed this piece of junk. So wait, you don't like people that got bored with GW because it's bad since EotN, yet you admit you are bored too? So, like, you hate yourself for being bored with the game?

Wow, you should go see a doctor. A leg doctor, too late for a head doctor.

enter_the_zone · May 25, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

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Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

The fact that it's subscription free is the only reason you are coming back to GW.

If it required subs, i can't think of 1 good reason why another MMO out there wouldn't be a better choice.

I can, so I did

EVE Online : You need to care far too much about depth to play this with any success. Also, one of the grindiest games in the world

WoW : Cartoon animation, flawed pvp, griefing and again grind

There are plenty of others out there, like Matrix Online, Flyff and Starwars Galaxies. Would you seriously choose all of those over Guild Wars?

Personally, I can't stand pointless grind. Guild Wars grind is mostly optional, it isn't seriously required to progress the story, it's there to provide a method of public masturbation for those with insecurities about the size of their e-peen.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 25, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Lmao, That made me LOL IRL! Nice!

Guildwars has some nice things but the game is seriously lacking in too many areas to even compete with anything else. I'v had more fun playing d2 lod lately. I agree that if GW had a monthly fee it wouldn't have survived the first year.

Spike · May 25, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

If GW was a paid for game and wow was free I would still play GW. In fact I would still play GW even if wow paid you to play. Thats how bad wow is. Oh and wow does NOT have 10 million paid for accounts.

visitor · May 25, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Well just because GW has sold less copies than WoW doesn´t mean it´s worse.
Let´s all remember that almost everything posted here is one person´s OPINION.
I think that GW is better than WoW. Grinding for no reason at all? No thanks.

Jenn · May 25, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I love AoC, great game, and will probably semi-drop GW for it.

But GW is still the best damn game out there. So innovative, and has a massive amount of friendly features that no other games have out there.

I hope GW2 doesn't stray too far from the current model, at least feature-wise. The interface is so simple, yet allows you to do complex things to coordinate or communicate with other folk. Target calling? Trading? Partying? Customizable Interface? Easily used chat chanels? Less traditional armor/wep system? IMO those are all great features of GW that I hope they don't abandon. The idea of henchies was also great.

Vinraith · May 25, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

GW is still the only multiplayer online game worth playing, IMO. I guess that makes it king of that particular roost.

Fee based MMO's are really a different beast entirely, and a crappy one at that. Show me a game with a fee that isn't designed around its fee and we'll talk. I for one don't enjoy games that are principally designed to waste as much of my time as possible.

Risus · May 25, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I've recently become very addicted with WARCRAFT III. DOTA is soo addicting... But Guild Wars is like any other MMO. You get bordom struts and you play other games until you arn't bored with GW anymore.

I'm not sure what it is about Warcraft. Maybe that in DOTA after ten kills zero deaths (very hard to do) the game interface plays the voice file HOLY SHIIIIIT! in a very taunting way to the other team.

zwei2stein · May 25, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

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Originally Posted by Vinraith

Fee based MMO's are really a different beast entirely, and a crappy one at that.

But players seem to love that design. They demand to have more of that timewasting even in GW.

Fee Based MMOs succesfully maintain illusion that their timewasting mechanics are cool. Most of playerbase was succesfully convinced that good mmo must have 50+ Levels which take at least 3 month to level for very active player and then all the thing that accompany this kind of design.

Molock · May 25, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

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Originally Posted by Abedeus

But really - the main point ANYONE plays GW is because it's f2p after buying it once. If it was $12-$15, people would play so many other games... Lineage 2, WoW, RO, DR, AoC...

WoW: was too grindy, played it quite a bit
Lineage 2: Played trial, was merely ok
RO: haven't heard much about that
AoC: played it, not a fan
GW: still playing after 3 years, and when I say "playing" I mean playing a lot! This game still provides for me, honestly I don't why you automatically say people would play other games if it wasn't f2p. $15 a month is a joke to me and I am willing to spend that money if a game that isn't grind based/gank based came along that was decent enough. If GW was to hire more competent employees to balance the game and they would add more small content once in a while I would willingly throw $15 a month to anet.

RedNova88 · May 25, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I was hoping you guys would come to understand it by now but seriously... Abedeus is trolling you guys so far under the bridge it's not even funny. If he's not trolling than that just makes it even more pathetic because he's serious. Oh and if GW had a monthly fee I'd still pay/play because generally when you give a game company more money they make the game better. Cryptic and NCsoft are good examples of this. And considering Anet and Cryptic both work/ed (cryptic is now working on a successor to City of Heroes, it's called Champion Online I think) for NCsoft, I'm pretty sure that the game would be much larger and enjoyable if it did actually have a regular fee. We're lucky we get anything from Anet anymore considering all the whiny little teenagers that plague the forums.

On another note, this thread is depressing. I'm going to go play GW and enjoy myself. Oh, one more thing... Abedeus, it's easier to leave a video game than a country... You know... Just in case you didn't already know...

Abedeus · May 25, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

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Originally Posted by visitor

Well just because GW has sold less copies than WoW doesn´t mean it´s worse.
Let´s all remember that almost everything posted here is one person´s OPINION.
I think that GW is better than WoW. Grinding for no reason at all? No thanks.

Uhm, actually, if something was sold in better amount, it is better. Same as why someone smart will get higher grades than a stupid person and same why person with high IQ is more intelligent than person with lower IQ at almost same age.

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Oh and wow does NOT have 10 million paid for accounts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

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World of Warcraft currently holds 62% of the MMOG market at 10 million subscribers. The current subscriber base for all MMOGs is 16 million.

O rly?

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more RedNova88 garbage

Because trying to discuss = trolling and calling everyone a troll after 1-2 posts = mature discussion. And Matrix: Revolutions was a good sequel and a movie. And J. K. Rowling is an unknown author of books about voodoo.

Snow Bunny · May 25, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

If you dislike GW, why do you post here?

Abedeus · May 25, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Eh. Already said - because I hope, that A.Net will realize their mistakes and fix them.

AND AGAIN - I NEVER SAID, I DISLIKE GW. God... why do I bother to read your posts, if you don't bother to read mine?

RedNova88 · May 25, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

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Originally Posted by Abedeus

Eh. Already said - because I hope, that A.Net will realize their mistakes and fix them.

AND AGAIN - I NEVER SAID, I DISLIKE GW. God... why do I bother to read your posts, if you don't bother to read mine?

You haven't said it, but it's implied in almost every one of your posts here in this thread. And I wouldn't go so far as to say you're discussing much, it seems like you're just shooting down anyone that enjoys GW, and condemning them if they would pay2play it. And if you want Anet to realize their mistakes it would be far more efficient to compile a list of complaints and form some sort of petition.