Curse

Lakdav · Jun 06, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I always thought that monks who stands alone at the end of the battle mostly failed. They were unable to keep the team alive, but were able to keep themselves alive. It ruins the illusion of the generous, selfless, rightous monk profession. If that 1 remaining monk have res, preferably rebirth, then Halleluja, all is well. If not, its like a warrior using Frenzy just before healing signet with Rust on him. But then again, that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation. A crazy circle...

kobey · Jun 06, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

that 1 skillslot wasted on res could have saved the whole team from annihilation.

Thats a bit exaggerated

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

I always thought that monks who stands alone at the end of the battle mostly failed.

I disagree. As a monk, you're usually the one furthest back from the action (unless the warrior extends you forward) and you're also the most attentive during battle to the condition of the party as a whole and the positioning of the party and threats. You're moving to avoid any threats while healing and/or protting. When you're the last one standing you have to question what the other backline casters were doing to not read some of the same things and survive themselves. I always ping when energy starts to become a problem, if it does, in a prolonged fight, and warn when we should fall back. Does anyone listen? Depends on the group.

As for a res, typically a monk should not be bringing a res in an all-human group. There's plenty of room among the other classes to bring a couple resses where its not going to affect the efficiency of their builds as much as it does a monk. The monk should never be casting a res during battle and if the midliners are doing their jobs and paying attention, the monk isnt going to be the only one standing in the event something goes wrong or you need to fall back.

I used to PUG all the time (prior to Nightfall and heroes) and most groups were largely successful. Got all my Protectors titles on all characters solely in PUGs and a few characters I even PUGged a number of the quests. They were far more successful than we seem to remember provided you recruited or joined a forming party with some sense. Tons of fun too since you get elements in group play that you dont get playing with AI. The game used to be played largely with all-human groups, lest we forget, since henchmen were less successful prior to updates (although you could do all the missions just fine using only henchmen). Players used to be more skilled in playing with others in PvE. Those who still are rarely tend never play in groups anymore, sadly. Indeed PUGs are the horror now. Depressing to think about really, as playing with heroes just got boring for me and I dont care at all to heal AI and direct AI for all activities I do in game, nor will I group with anyone using the unnamed skill.

Molock · Jun 06, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

PuG's have always been pretty bad.. they only seems worse now because we are more experienced and probably have become used to a certain degree of knowledge about the game.

I noticed that for the first week of a games release (Factions, NF, EotN) the pugs aren't as bad, I beat all the campaigns with pugs(first time around). Anyway, you can come accross good Pugs once in a while.

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 06, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Sorry if I missed it. But which one is you?

Best post in a "PUGs suck" thread ever!!!!

zelgadissan · Jun 06, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

Sorry if I missed it. But which one is you?

Owned. PUGs suck, the good players don't need a PUG so you're never going to see them in it.

Anyway, my two cents on the res: resing is for most midliners. That means Me, Rt, R, N, E, and a non-Imbagon P (if those are even still run) could legitimately be asked to carry a hard res. W, D, and A shouldn't have to deal with it - if the party's getting wiped and they're the ones left alive, you have a problem. Mo shouldn't have to deal with it because if somebody's dead they obviously need to start/continue healing/proting.

Darkobra · Jun 06, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Yes. My wife should be topless making me dinner in the kitchen. But somehow I don't think she agrees with me as I get slapped every time I suggest it

Yours makes dinner? You beat me.

Artisan Archer · Jun 06, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

This thread explains why Monks will always be yelled at, no matter what they do.

Malice Black · Jun 06, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

The fanbase got worse in general.

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

This thread explains why Monks will always be yelled at, no matter what they do.

There's some truth in that.

Still, in all my time in PUGs and PvP as a monk I can count all the times someone went off on me on one hand. There were actually more times I simply raised my hand and said "yeah, that was my fault" and we all moved on. I've had great times as a monk. So few negative experiences that its rather odd actually. Again I think it has to do with choosing your groups wisely, or having a bit of sixth sense about it.

BlackSephir · Jun 06, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Breaking news: pugs suck. More after this.
That was new in 1997...

Malice Black · Jun 06, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Not all pugs suck, just 99.999% of them

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Not all pugs suck, just 99.999% of them

I dont think its that high. I doubt my ability to have successfully navigated that .001% as frequently as I did. If you mean in the here and now though, yeah, I'd say that's about accurate, Ursan PUGs included.

RiKio · Jun 06, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

PuGs.....

Oh, Olias, Livia and Jurah, I love you so much........

Miska Bow · Jun 06, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Was refreshing my memory last nite by doing Bloodstone Fen in NM before going in HM. I see someone asking for help on how to do bonus. I get myself invited and we start. At the first druid, before dropping the seed witch spawns the druid; I take the time to explain what the bonus is about. We must in NOT ARM THE GUARDIAN IN ANYWAY. (i used cap in party chat just to make sure). I also advise them to put all heroes on "do not attack" mode.

First guardian we encounter, noob ranger kills its, bonus fail for them. Said nothing and just mapped back to the outpost.

adaml83 · Jun 06, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I think on average, PUGs have gotten worse. However it's still possible to find a good group. Or at least a determined group, that's willing to learn from their mistakes.

Then again a good, helpful guild is a good counter to forming groups at outposts.

Damian979 · Jun 06, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

pugs always seem to be a nightmare til you get a good one

When I monk it's res scrolls b/c if the party's dead and I'm the monk, then I wasn't quick enough and it should cost me a little

[Vengeance] if frequent "spike" deaths are expected

[Rebirth] very situational and seldom brought as it leaves you with one less dead person and two very useless people (one being the monk)

Tyla · Jun 06, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?

I was going to agree 100%, but this just made me lol.

Antheus · Jun 06, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

Resurrection should be done after the fight is over, and even if its during it doesnt take long to res someone. I can understand the logic but monks suck anyways, so they might as well bring a needed skill, otherwise they fail. And monks who use res sig fail anyways because when they don't have a bonus they can't res.

And this is why PUGs fail.

Rez early, rez fast.

If your monk has time and energy to rez, then the monk isn't needed, and nobody should is dying anyway. Replace the monk with damage dealer.

If monk has time to stop for 5-10 seconds to rez someone, then even more people will die, or that monk is not needed again.

The second someone dies, there should be spam in group chat "'non-monk' is using 'ressurection skill' on ...". Not at the end, not after 10 seconds, but ASAP.

If you need wipe recovery on a monk, there's rez scrolls.

Same thing applies to RA. You have people dying one by one, until all that's left is a lone ranger. After 2 minutes of running around, they come next to the monk (remember, monks have no rez), and they start rezzing them using dodge or whatever stance they're using. They succeed just in time, ranger dies, and monk is alive with 10% health, no energy and no rez.

toastgodsupreme · Jun 06, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

They are getting worse.

And it doesn't stop at just bad player bars. The bad players INSIST on bringing shitty heroes too.

Today in Rilohn some sin thought it would be a great idea to have just one monk and with the following build:

[Light of Deliverance][mending][purge conditions][healing touch][orison of healing][healing seed][heal party][resurrect]

To which I replied "lol oh hell no". Not to mention the sin himself had some monk heals on his own bar.

Am I the weird one for not bringing heals on my bar at all in pve? I mean, my job is to kill shit, I'll leave the healing and whatnot to the monks and N/Rt's.

But yeah, I'm at the point where I refuse to play with warriors AT ALL. Don't care if you're a W/Mo or not. The only exception to the rule is obby tanks for elite areas and dslash godmode wars who announce they are.

I miss the days when it was just Prophecies. If you sucked, your entire team would say "f u" and bail on your ass at the beginning of a mission. So all the bad players had to get somewhat decent to get through the game.

Now with heroes picking up the slack, that's not the case anymore.

PuGs are just terrible now. But I still do it so that I get to see how bad people really are and that way I appreciate my heroes that much more.