Curse

Inger · Dec 20, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Imo the most "challenging" areas to play through is the elite missions in factions, particularly The Deeps. Its certainly not the hardest in terms of strongest hitting enemies but I found it the most challenging. The reason I found it the most challenging is simply because of the co-ordination and co-operation required in your team to complete the mission. Your team has to work together to clear the mission, you can't just blindly go in and kill everything in sight. This level of co-operation makes the mission very fun everyone relies on each other and it becomes really enjoyable.

Once you've become experienced in the area and are going with a knowledgable team the area becomes much easier but if its your first time going there then it definately makes the area a challenge. Of course if its also you're first time going there it'll likely take around 4-5hrs to clear and thats after many wipes.

In terms of hardest area just in terms of chaos and mob strength I'd definately have to save DoA is hardest.

TaCktiX · Dec 20, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Most imbalanced areas for no really good reason:

Tyria: Pretty much any area with Stone Summit has more than one uber-mob that can only be taken on with a straight tank corner-blocking or massive consumable use. Ex: Tasca's Demise, Dreadnought's Drift, Icedome, Frozen Forest, Spearhead Peak when approached from Granite Citadel. Amazingly, Grenth's Footprint doesn't have this problem.

Charr mobs in Diessa Lowlands are a little bit vicious for a 4 player party. When you have mesmers with Power Block and necromancers with Lingering Curse, plus overpowered melee, you can't tank with any amount of prot without having super-amazing monks with instant hex-removal.

I do find it ironic that most areas with Titan quests are easier to vanquish with the quest up.

Cantha: Some Jade Brotherhood mobs are a little bit large considering how much damage they can cause. Maybe drop the numbers in some of the larger mobs. Ex. Bukdek Byway, Xaquang Skyway.

Combinations of mobs in the Jade Sea. It's way too easy to get a 3-mob pileup without meaning to in the first place. Sometimes this can't even be fixed with proper longbowing of the mob. Ex. Silent Surf, Archipelagos.

Wardens in Echovald. Sure, the amazing mob size was justifiable in NM when they were under-level, but in HM, it's just large mobs that patrol into more large mobs, and cause massive damage into your face. Ex. Arborstone.

Tahnnakai in HM. It can only be easily Mastered with a MM in NM, the same follows with TWO MMs in HM, and only two in case one of them bites the dust you don't lose all of your minions and get killed by the over-mobs of Afflicted.

Elona: The Forms bosses have mobs bigger than they deserve. I know with the Forms you were trying to play up the "assaulting a held Kournan fortress" thing, but having to take on 3 mobs worth of folks and then the double-damage scythe-wielding boss? Seriously, that's ridiculous. Make the mobs separate so you can pull one at a time.

DoA. I know Ursan Blessing has fixed a lot of this, but the fact that there is nearly no way to enter this area without one dedicated tank, 3 monks, and the rest pure damage is rather ridiculous. There's a difference between Elite area, where you are challenged by the mobs and have to think out ways to handle them, and then Cookiecutter area, where there is One Build To Rule Them All. I thought LOTRO had the market on Ring-verse already.

Clobimon · Dec 20, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Interesting thread. In fact, it's really useful to the designers.

Could you include some notes about what makes the area/quest/mission difficult, and whether you think it's too difficult, or just nicely challenging?

I have LV and have vanquished 10 of the zones in GW:EN. Just for my playing enjoyment I'd say much of GW:EN HM is beyond "nicely challenging." Charr in explorable areas are insane, Simians, dinosaurs, Heket... I'll do the areas for completion sake, but they don't make me say "fun! I want to do that again." That doesn't seem like a good thing

btw, /gloat by the Charr makes one upset when they're struggling with something. I don't think they even need that skill in HM - or menders and prophets

Vinraith · Dec 20, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Charr mobs in Diessa Lowlands are a little bit vicious for a 4 player party. When you have mesmers with Power Block and necromancers with Lingering Curse, plus overpowered melee, you can't tank with any amount of prot without having super-amazing monks with instant hex-removal.

Monks and tanks are the wrong things to be taking in those areas (actually, tanks are virtually always the wrong thing to be taking in this game, period). Try three necros, works much better. Failing that, try a paragon.

A lot of the "hard areas" talked about in this thread seem to be a result of folks not thinking outside the box as far as party configuration. The holy trinity ain't so holy, sometimes a party of, say, 8 necros (and I don't mean MM's) works better.

Arturius · Dec 20, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

I find that anywhere with multi-monk/multi-nuker mobs becomes ridiculously overpowered in HM. So generally areas with Kournan patrols, Jade Brotherhood, Charr areas of gwen, Skree Griffin mobs etc, those sorts of places can be bad. Yet other hard mode maps that don't contain these types of mobs are really no harder than normal mode. I guess the game mechanics break down when you just keep adding attributes levels to certain classes more so than others. Just my experience anyway.

arcanemacabre · Dec 20, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clobimon

I have LV and have vanquished 10 of the zones in GW:EN. Just for my playing enjoyment I'd say much of GW:EN HM is beyond "nicely challenging." Charr in explorable areas are insane, Simians, dinosaurs, Heket... I'll do the areas for completion sake, but they don't make me say "fun! I want to do that again." That doesn't seem like a good thing

I dunno, I mean the only section in GW:EN I have vanquished so far are all the Asura areas, and they aren't that bad. I actually found them quite fun. Particularly the heavy-hitting Ceratadons. Haven't tried the Charr areas, though I'm betting that because most of the Charr groups have mobs with res skills, bringing Frozen Soil might be the way to go.

Oh yeah, there is one area in Varajar Fells, where there is a group of Modniir with two priests, who both have Word of Healing. That group, without sufficient interrupts/dazed, is a major pain in HM. It took my group about 5 minutes to take one of the priests out, and when we finally did, it took only about 10 seconds to take the rest out. Thanks to the update on WoH, yeah, they are a force to be reckoned with.

pumpkin pie · Dec 20, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Call to the Torment << That is one irritating skill that makes night fallen area difficult.

Yes the charrs in hard mode Dalada Uplands.... i have nothing to say. i don't even want to go there in HM anymore.

Danax · Dec 20, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

All areas apply to Hardmode and Normalmode

Tyria:

Ice Dome - Because the spawn is so messed up because when you die, you respawn on top of a mob.

Cantha - Nothing too hard really.. If I had to pick i'd say the Unwaking Waters parts with Saltspray Dragons.

Elona - Joko's Domain can be hard without shutdown with the enemy mob's interrupts and resses. Hard mode is harder because of the amount of Undead and faster resses.

GW:EN - Shards of Orr is way too hard because of the big, dense mobs. IN hardmode it is hell. Suggestion: Tone down the mob size atleast.

AND, Charr areas in Hardmode in GWen (Ex. Dalada Uplands)

The charr mobs are broken. 2 Monks, 1 warder, 1 nuker, 1 warrior, a necromancer, and a ritualist all in 1 Mob in hardmode? That's freaking broken. PLus, Fast casting resses. Not everyone has frozen soil o_o and you have to kill something first between warders/monks.

odly · Dec 20, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

I have to admit that Shards of Orr really made me struggle. I have still to tackle is in HM. I understand Anet was kind off paying us back our own coockie cutter build idea with enough melee to hold our aggro, enough aoe damage to outdamage our healers and a couple healers to keep them alive.

I think this goes beyond being fun.

Zeek Aran · Dec 20, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

In my experience, nothing is too hard. Yet my alliance still uses almost nothing but Ursan and it hurts.

bifter · Dec 20, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Hench Vloxen in HM. The total inability of AI to kite without aggroing additional groups makes the start of level 2 near impossible.

sterbenx2 · Dec 20, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

The Hard Mode battle that will end your love of the game begins in Camp Rankor. The amount of time it takes to vanquish Snake Dance, Dreadnoughts Drift and Lonars pass is asdounding. the Drift has HUGE groups that include Dolyak Masters, often more than one. Attempting this from anywhere but the Camp Rankor is just NOT an option.

There should be an outpost or SOMETHING between these maps. Designers say that the game isn't balanced for 7 heroes but uhm, wow.. Have they tried this!?!? lol, I doubt it. I think some redesign is needed for these maps in Hard Mode. Just Hard Mode though. Oh, and just to clarify. I love these same maps in Normal Mode. I like the challenge of Dreadnoughts.

Akaraxle · Dec 20, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Underworld with a balanced 8 man pug. Fissure too if they're stupid enough.

BigT · Dec 20, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Personaly I consider Sacnoth Valley to be one of the hardest vanquishes in GW:EN. Specifically the Burning Forrest. Dungeon Wise, I would agree with the others about Shards of Orr, NM or HM it sucks, and slavers, heh, my few experiences so far in there have sucked.

Fidelity · Dec 20, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Domain of Pain is always fun for a run through on HM to get to the treasure chest at the end. Crossing the first bridge and encountering 3 mobs and a boss bunched up in the archway makes for a tough challenge.

Zeek Aran · Dec 20, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

The Hard Mode battle that will end your love of the game begins in Camp Rankor. The amount of time it takes to vanquish Snake Dance, Dreadnoughts Drift and Lonars pass is asdounding. the Drift has HUGE groups that include Dolyak Masters, often more than one. Attempting this from anywhere but the Camp Rankor is just NOT an option.

I vanqd Snake and Drift with a friend and heroes. No consumables. If our DP piled up [which it did, once] we bribed the hell out of Grenth. We only had issues with one group with three dolyaks, and we drained their e or distracted them from healing one target, I don't remember, but it really wasn't that hard.

Brian Fellow · Dec 20, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Dreadnaught's Drift - multiple dolyak master group in a gigantic mob
Shards of Orr - multiple shock wizards
Morostav Trail - has 1 gigantic warden mob with 1 or 2 bosses.

Estic · Dec 20, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

I vanqd Snake and Drift with a friend and heroes. No consumables. If our DP piled up [which it did, once] we bribed the hell out of Grenth. We only had issues with one group with three dolyaks, and we drained their e or distracted them from healing one target, I don't remember, but it really wasn't that hard.

Better yet, without consumables, scrolls and with only H/H. Did Dread's and Lornar's in one sitting. The only wipe was with the big group of Stone summit at the southeast part of Lornar's because I didn't expect them there (it had been a while since the last time I was there).

Phoenix Tears · Dec 20, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

theres lot of stuff, which really needs to be changed to decrease the insane difficulty of certain areas in HM...

Tyria NM/HM:

Reduce the amount of Ice Imps, Dolyak Healers per Group, and Mursaat...
Even when your armor is impregnated...the sheer sum of Mursaat and jade Armors in places like the Frost Forest or how its called in English...is somewhat of overwhelming..there helps your impregnated armor nothing...

The Ice Imps are the most annoying crap there...because they make playing H/H to a hell trip...alone 1 Ice Imp is able to easily kill your whole Caster Line with 1 combination of Mind Freeze and Maelstrom...because they tend to have ever more energy. then anyone of either the players or the H/H, redulting in ridiculous overpowered slowdowns of -90% movement speed...and then they give you easily the party wipe with 1 maelstrom, ending up you being absolutely unable to move out of it quick enough..before you got wiped...
This quickeneds epsecially naturally, when you fight vs. a huge bunch of them in hard mode...

fight 2 or more ice Imps in Hard mode at once and this means 100% a party wipe..as long your not able to interrupt quick enough all the incoming maelstorms of every single Imp....
Mind Freeze is really a Skill, that could need a nerf.... reducing the slowment from 90% to 75% and letting it only freeze...when the caster has lesser Energy, than the target..instead of more..then the target...
bwecause H/H don't look for Energy management.they simple dish out everythign they have end end up very much quicker with having no energy anymore..then a real player would have in the same moment....its clear then..that something like this area with this monsters becomes absolutely impossible to play with H/H....when your whole casters get everytime wiped, when you meet on 2 or more Ice Imps there.

Uhm...one name ...Rotscale ...this monsters is in NM ridiculous hard to kill (there it is still lvl 30) ..in HM this one is absolute insane with all his undead companions around him...vanguishing this area is a guarantee for frustration

The whole areas later in South Shiverpeaks...fightign the Stone Summits areas...which have at certain places way to much mobs in very near distances, which results very quiock in absolutely insane overaggroment..having to fight vs. ridiculous amounts of enemies..being impossible to kill anything...because the enemies there are trimmed in overwhelming easily the players..especially in HM

Vampiric Necros, Anti Melee mesmers...dolyak healers..which heal very stong and are a real annoyance..when u meet on more than 1 in a group..you can forget it..because they heal both eachother too good and when you think "yes..now i got finally one in the ass,then comes 1 damn prit spells. which heals them everytime, when they receive any damage..healing them up to max withing some seconds and they cast it so quick, hta it is impossible to interrupt it, especially in HM. where everything is 50% quicker.then in NM (as if it isnt unfair overpowered enough.that enemies in Hm get blown ALL their attributes to 20!!!!)

Not to mention, that died and revived monsters get NO Death Malus...this sucks really most...u kill a monster..it gets revived...has full health and is then as same as strong, as if nothing would have had happened before oO WTF..but when we die..we get naturally DP...and that so far..until enemies can kill us instantly with thweir farts >.> ...one kind of unfair pve unbalance,that didnt got fixed until today ....

Cantha NM/HM...

Jade jerks in the town...are in NM a real annoyance..cause of their way to big groups ..in HM they are a real oain in the ass...

warriors and ele jade jerks deal absolutely too much damage..enemy size needs really a nerf there....there is a reason..why so much people are in the opinion..why factions is the most worst campain of all...because kaineng and the overpowered masses of enemies there around are the most overpowered annoying enemies of the whole game series..not to mention the insane hordes of afflicted in certain areas and missions and their ridiculous self explodes, which can easily insta kill anyone in their neir,if too much afflicted die simultanously around you...and the players having no way to reduce this effect or to get immune to these explodes..something like the armor impregnation like vs the mursaats special spectral agony would have been really needed in Factions for the afflicted's self explodes to make this game not such an extreme annoyance in the beginning

kurzick areas..the wood wardens...they are also a pain in the ass..when too much ritualists and earth eles are in groups..making these areas a hel trip for H/H players..because the heroes and henchs get too easily wiped within seconds by them, especially by the ele. which spam their churning earth spells...and heroes being too dumb still..to move out of aoE spells >.< for every shit you have to control your heroes self..when you fight vs aoe eles -.- costing time you have to concentrate on yourself not being endign up beign spiked or standign self in those aoes

Elona NM/HM ...

some misasions/quests have really too moch mobs of either margonites or of djinns.... vanguishing the forgotten city of the djinns is pure HELL....and vanguishign certain places hm vs margonite hordes too with H/H....which you can really only vanguish..when u have 8 man with lightbringer gaze and a maxed LB title...because only then you have a chance killing those hordes quick enough, before they overwhelm you.. exmaple quesr : protect the learned....there you have to fight vs so much margonites..that the ratio is 9 Marginites per 1 ally...because 12 groups of marginites a easily 6 margonites per group start running simultanously towards you..split then up in 2 groups and run 2 different ways to kil some absolutely too weak (lvl 10) monk npcs..which these groups kill in a second, once they reach them (not the mention..that the guard npc#s there are a joke..way too less guard nocs there to give the players enough time to catch up the 2nd margonites group.

And last but not least ... the undead groups in the deserts of Elona...
way too big groups, especially with too much monsters in..which are able to ressurrect permanently and with full health ect...where <you really god damn wish..that monsters should receive also a ******** death malus....so that the fight ends up not very qwuick in an endless fight....because enemies rez quiucker..then you can kill them.
These groups in HM are only beatly..while you are in a junundu wurm..because then you have only enough attack power to kill quick enough 1 rezzer after another and even than can it happen..that a unded paragon revives someone with its signet..before you could kill them ...
but fighting such a group of 2 Acolyths...3 cavaliers ect is just ridiculous insane..when you try fight them in non wurm state
the rez signet of those paragons needs really a longer cast time..therfore that you can use it permanently and the size of these groups must be reduced at places..where you are in non wurm state....because they are balanced only for wurm fights..but when you fight these groups normally..they are overpowered

GW:EN...

anythign in HM is overpowered there..I dunno,. where to start ...

Dinosaurs..most overpowered of all imo .... with their ridiculous Monster Skills

Angorodons...Ferothrax, Raptors, Tyrannos, Ceratodons..they al are in their own ways massively overpowered....

Angorodons, Ferothrax and Tyrranos are massively overpowere by their Snake Bite Monsterskill. which does way to much damage...
Raptors are a pain in their ass with their monk focusing wipe attacks..which in group goal on perma interrupting anything
And Ceratodons deal too much damage with their earth aoe Shockwave.. alone 1 is in HM easily able to wipe your whole party..2 and more are extreme hard to handle and at those places you easily overaggro with these much of raptors running around....get ceratodons and raptors aggroed and your wiped for sure

next monsters.... Storm Cloud Incubus'es...get a bunch of them spawn in HM and they spike wipe your hwole party down within seconds..and just when you want to kill them..they fly away >.< appear then again and spike you again with their too quick shocks which deal together too much damage..these spawns need really to be reduced....
a spawn of like 10 of these incubus at one ways is way to unbalanced...as long they are only 3-4..they are handleable..anything above is overpowered and leads only into too massive shock spikes that insta kill anything...

wind rider groups need realy to be reduced...they interrupt with their cry of frustions way to hard and too quick the whole party...u nearly get nothing through..because of of them really cries ever..exact in the moment u start usign your skill -.-

In GW:En you get nearly nothing done without playing this group build:

1 obsi Tank
1-2 Splitter Barrager
1 SS Necro
2-3 SF Eles or SH Eles
2 Monks..one as Bonder for the Tank and 1 Group Healer with Healers Boon and Heal Party.

this has become very wuick 1 out of 2 ways you can play only anything in HM in EotN...the other way is ursan group ....

with other builds without an obsi tank you simple stand absolutely no chance in EotN HM...and that maskes the game boring...when the game forces you to play only certain group builds..to have a chance doing something
===========

Dungeons in HM..there are some in..which are ridiculous overpowered....vloxen Excavations for example..the imo only real Elite Dungeon..because it its much harder as anything HM from Slavers....self HM Shards of Orr is miuch more an elite dungeon..then Slavers..because of its difficulty (ok..the only difficulty that is a real on in Shards is the end boss,,the undeads itself are easy with right group build)

However..the end of stage 2 and the whole stage 3 of vloxen is somewhat of ridiculous overpowered with its lvl 30 perma rezz all 2 minutes monsters....where it takes way longer to kill any group there, than 2 minutes
the player has no chance to stop somehow these perma rez... what this stage of this dungeon should realy receive..a way to stop these perma rez of the undeads...something like laying any holy items on the ground with a area affect that lets no undeads get perma rezzed anymore in the area of effect of this drop item.... and to receive this drop item..players have to kill a boss... this would be a great help to make this dungeon more balanced and not such a big annoyance...because you simple come there not further..u kill some stuff...rush a bit further..then you meet direct on a next group..which takes longer than 2 minutes to kill..the first killed get rezzed and rush also too you instandly >.<
There needs only one ally to be killed..and you lose direct vwery important time..because u have to rez someone..which lies in the middle of the rezzed undeads...and when you get wiped..u get NATURALLY kicked back to the absolute end of where you have started..because theres no rez shrine in the middle as save point..so that you get forced to fight all rezzed undeads again >.>

this place is way beyond insanity...this stage makes people ready for the madhouse

Blazin_Rasin · Dec 20, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Wow my post compared to Phoenix Tears is giong to be nothing lol, but I think that one of the most challenging things in GW is, The Four Horseman quest, and that quest is found in the Chaos Planes of the Underworld. I have only beat it once on normal mode, and belive me I tryed that quest a lot, for all the old timers of GW, my guild and I use to farm the spawning pools 4 or 5 times a night because rumor had it that the Terror Sheild droped down there, and the only way to get to the spawning pools is to travel through the caos planes, so I was there a lot! So The Four Horseman Quest is the hardest thing in GW in my oppion, second would probably have to be the Ice Dome. GL