Curse

Abedeus · May 04, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

How can you play UW/DoA/FoW if people look ONLY for ursans r10, in DoA you need max lightbringer? Sure you can try to solo, but you will waste 5 times more time than people that grind. Maybe with obsi tank... Wrong! People don't waste time on a obsi + nukers + bip + healers team. 5 ursans + 3 monks is faster ;o

SOMETIMES you will meet a team forming without pve-only skills. But also sometimes you find 100 ecto for you on UW run. Like once per 1000 billions runs. Maybe before double weekends you could find a team without ursans, but now you can't. Grind Norn points or don't do hard mode/vanquish/elite areas.

Malice Black · May 04, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Having a decent guild means plenty of Elite runs. Ursan isn't an issue then. Trying to get in one of these guilds, then getting into the 'core' of the guild is the truly hard bit.

Chestnut · May 04, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I think guild wars + factions was fine..

NF killed Guild wars imho.

well mostly it was Inscriptions for me.. made stuff much less rare.. and like "OMG I got a max weapon drop" now every weaopn that drops in Eye and NF is max no matter what, you can slap 15^50 on anything you want.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 04, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chestnut

I think guild wars + factions was fine..

NF killed Guild wars imho.

well mostly it was Inscriptions for me.. made stuff much less rare.. and like "OMG I got a max weapon drop" now every weaopn that drops in Eye and NF is max no matter what, you can slap 15^50 on anything you want.

I wish everything that drops is max. Sadly it is not in my case, I get more non max crap than a diaper recycling center.

Also NF doesnt kill anything, Grinding doesnt kill the game, unless ofcourse you spend 4-8 hours a day on GW, then I can see grinding becoming a waking nightmare.

Personally I dont mind grinding, It doesnt even take that long to get Max titles from NF or EoTn.

MasterSasori · May 04, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chestnut

I think guild wars + factions was fine..

NF killed Guild wars imho.

well mostly it was Inscriptions for me.. made stuff much less rare.. and like "OMG I got a max weapon drop" now every weaopn that drops in Eye and NF is max no matter what, you can slap 15^50 on anything you want.

NF didn't kill anything. The continuation of title grinding starting from the very beginning of GW was what was killing it.

ANet promotes the Skill>Grind but in reality this is not practical for ANet as a company. To hold Skill>Grind to its highest ideal means less players because they don't play as much and that definitely isn't good for ANet.

People who grind kinda hit the wrong aspect of GW. They may find it more worthwhile to play WoW and other games that reward for grind more than GW.

MithranArkanere · May 04, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

The problem is not 'grind'. Making missions and quests with various characters, getting one title maxed, leveling up various characters getting skills with various characters...

You could consider all that grind.

The problem is 'grind of grind', like when you have to get plot non-achievement titles maxed again, and again, and again, like with Wisdom, Treasure Hunter, Promotion/Reputation titles, etc...

Those should get at least eased the more characters made them.

Mocisme · May 04, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

it's only "grind wars" if you make it so. most of the grinding is title related which isnt really necessary to advance or finish the game (cept r1 friend of luxons/kurz, a realy low sunspear rank, and maybe 1 or 2 more). Now, if it was necessary to grind every single title just to beat the game, there would be a reason complain.

yes, i know, the more titles, the more stuff for GW2, but again, thats only if you want to do so.

Abedeus · May 04, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Mocisme, you didn't even read last page.

You don't need titles to finish the campaign. But to get into PuGs and do elite areas, vanquish and all the other shit I mentioned before, you need to max your norn and lightbringer. On all characters, so if, for example, I have 6 characters:

Only two have r4 lightbringer
Only one has r7 norn
Only one has access to ALL high-end pve, DoA, Deep and Urgoz
Monk has access only to UW/FoW
One has FoW monument, one has UW, neither of them is my main character (-.-)

And if I want to get something, I have to grind r10 norn and r8 lightbringer on ALL of them? God, please no, I'd rather go to WoW and do an intelligent grind. Well, maybe not that intelligent, just a bit more challenging than in GW.

Not that I will go to WoW, it's boring without friends and a guild.

Longasc · May 04, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

The problem is 'grind of grind', like when you have to get plot non-achievement titles maxed again, and again, and again, like with Wisdom, Treasure Hunter, Promotion/Reputation titles, etc...

I think this sums it up very well.

GW is fun and has not really much if any grind, but once you are "through", all you can do is repetitive grind of the worst kind.

I am already in that phase, and I am not really in the mood to do something that actually is not grind, bringing my other chars through EOTN, too. I think I brought 3 through and I am not keen on doing it again.

Maybe they get the idea of having a team designing dynamic content, things called "EVENTS", but that all costs time and money... the same applies for new content.

Unfortunately they do not seem to be able to offer a lot of quality content (more of the same actually, but still) every half a year as they planned, which is a pity.

@Abedeus: You are also in a shitty position if your friends are constantly riding heroic instances where your gear is not considered good enough to take part in!

against · May 04, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

GW doesn't force you to grind. It gives you the option, but you don't need to grind for anything necessary.

MithranArkanere · May 04, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by against

GW doesn't force you to grind. It gives you the option, but you don't need to grind for anything necessary.

Yeah, we know, yet still, if you choose to grind once, you have to grind again, and again and again.

In PvP nothing stops you from changing characters. Why to stop people from changing in PvE?

Esan · May 04, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

[T]o get into PuGs and do elite areas, vanquish and all the other shit I mentioned before, you need to max your norn and lightbringer.

Have you considered not joining ursanway pugs? It is possible to vanquish everything, (almost) get legendary guardian, and finish every dungeon in hard mode with just heroes and hench. If you don't like playing by yourself, find yourself a guild of non-idiots (might be the hardest thing you do in GW), and you don't have to grind a single minute.

cellardweller · May 04, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by against

GW doesn't force you to grind. It gives you the option, but you don't need to grind for anything necessary.

... except for any form of competitive pve.

Gregslot · May 04, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

In PvP nothing stops you from changing characters. Why to stop people from changing in PvE?

"oops!"

Thats what devs will say reading this.

R_Frost · May 05, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

HAHAHAHHA OHOOHOHO BUAHHHA God, best damn joke I've ever heard. Eye of the North: Maximum grind - you need it for better skills, getting reskinned armor/weapons/consumables, access to those things, getting into Pugs, vanquishing, DoA... Same goes for Nightfall - don't have r8/monk? Gtfo grind 10 hours mindlessly.
/facepalm

EoTN isnt maximum grind. on 2 characters i hit rank 5 to get Norn and monument armor just playing once through the game and making sure i picked up my hunting bonus at the rez shrines. that was just turning in 1 full hero book for each character. the PvE skills arent needed to play the game at all nor are consumables. all it does is make an already easy PvE game easier and missons or title grinding faster. there was a time before PvE skills and consumables that the elite areas were done without problems, they just took more time to do them.

PvE skills would never had been needed if Anet could actually ballance the game. HM is retarded with its over powered monsters so in turn Anet gave us what at first was a counter with PvE skills that people later bitched were over powered and later got nerfed. who cares PvE skills are over powered, its PvE. EoTN on the other hand, whoever came up with the grouping of the monsters and their builds should be fired. using old lame PvP builds, yeah that was a great idea. just shows how little thought actually went into EoTN. its more like the design team sat in a room, had a little meeting, realized nightfall really screwed up the GW1 franchise so instead of giving us chapter 4 we got a piss poor so called expansion while Anet tries to figure out how to unscrew what they screwed up before GW2 hits the market. then add in grind titles thinking it would keep the player base interested til sometime 2009 or early 2010 when GW2 hits the shelves. mean while everyone in GW1 is now a beta tester while skill changes are made then later undone because whoever is doing the ballance is clueless or the gameis so far from ballance they just dont know what direction to go to actually make a difference without knocking other skills out of ballance.

Phineas · May 05, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

No one is arguing that grind is required to play through a campaign (or add-on) so we can put that one to bed. The point is, beyond completing the campaigns, grind is all that is left in some form or other.

Esan · May 05, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

No one is arguing that grind is required to play through a campaign (or add-on) so we can put that one to bed. The point is, beyond completing the campaigns, grind is all that is left in some form or other.

Who's chained your feet to your computer desk, forcing you to continue playing endlessly? After you've defeated the Lich, Shiro, Abby and G Dog, you've won the game. You can stop playing then if you want.

Phineas · May 05, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Who's chained your feet to your computer desk, forcing you to continue playing endlessly? After you've defeated the Lich, Shiro, Abby and G Dog, you've won the game. You can stop playing then if you want.

I posted a page or so back that I have done exactly that.

Uber Mass · May 05, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

How can you play UW/DoA/FoW if people look ONLY for ursans r10, in DoA you need max lightbringer? Sure you can try to solo, but you will waste 5 times more time than people that grind. Maybe with obsi tank... Wrong! People don't waste time on a obsi + nukers + bip + healers team. 5 ursans + 3 monks is faster ;o

SOMETIMES you will meet a team forming without pve-only skills. But also sometimes you find 100 ecto for you on UW run. Like once per 1000 billions runs. Maybe before double weekends you could find a team without ursans, but now you can't. Grind Norn points or don't do hard mode/vanquish/elite areas.

Ofc you can.... Its called running with a decent guild/friends and people who aren't narrowminded... i know these groups are rare but they are out there

MithranArkanere · May 05, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

No one is arguing that grind is required to play through a campaign (or add-on) so we can put that one to bed. The point is, beyond completing the campaigns, grind is all that is left in some form or other.

I see it as a reason for NOT to keep playing.

Once I finish a campaign with once character, I make other things, vanquish, protector, guardian, mission quests, elite areas, and with other characters.

Thanks to grind titles and the HoM, the time spent playing mostly counts in the character that you play the most with.

The effort is spread if you choose to play with more than one character.

IF you favor a single character, and has the rest as mules, you have no problem. Grind is easy, and fast, and once you unlock all areas playing is smooth.
But if you like all professions, you are halted anytime you switch.