Curse

Tromador · Feb 27, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

But there can be a middle ground where we all can agree.

I hope so

Tempy · Feb 27, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

I hope so

Me Too! It would be a nice change.

lyra_song · Feb 27, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

Once again for the 50th time this is NOT about NEW characters.

The op's post is about unlocking stuff after beating the game. I will clarify that when i said "new characters" i mean "those made after beating the game once".

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

I posit this for that middle ground - if you have an endgame character who is ascended or weh no sue, then why fight through the weenie bad guys? Jedi Masters do not have to wade through stormtroopers to get to the bosses. They have flack to do that, because they are bosses themselves.

But only the characters that have beaten the game actually achived that status. All your new characters are still babies.

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Yes we do need a middle ground.

TabascoSauce · Feb 27, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

It appears that we all are in agreement.

Recap:

Non-ascended characters have to start near the beginning, particularly if they go to another campaign. The current entry points built in now seem appropriate.

Ascended characters unlock cities/mission points/etc but not explorable areas on all campaigns as soon as they ascend. The point where the unlock ends would seem to be right after the ascension points in each campaign. Basically everything up to Droknar's Forge, Tahnakhi Temple, and Gate of Desolation.

We can quibble about exactly where the unlocks end, but the song remains the same. Ascended warriors should not have to do FedEx missions.

Sound good?

Thx!
TabascoSauce

Winterclaw · Feb 27, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Has anyone suggested letting people change primaries? Another option is other PCs as heroes so you can unlock new places with up to 4 PCs at a time.

To me the real question is how long does it take to finish a campaign per character and how long do you want people spending in each campaign doing the same thing? For example if I want to get my el Searing Flames or my warrior primeval armor, I'm going to have to play through NF... that's at least 15-30 hours (more if I dawdle) there.

Winterclaw · Feb 27, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Ascended characters unlock cities/mission points/etc but not explorable areas on all campaigns as soon as they ascend. The point where the unlock ends would seem to be right after the ascension points in each campaign. Basically everything up to Droknar's Forge, Tahnakhi Temple, and Gate of Desolation.

In NF you are "ascended" once you have the sunspear sancturary. And you'd be in Senji's Corner in factions.

BryanM · Feb 27, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Has anyone suggested letting people change primaries?

Think I did. It's not viable since the character art varies drastically between them. If your entire appearance and body shape doesn't magically change, the different class armor would probably have graphic issues. Managing the armor sets would also make storage even more painful.

It would also trivialize the value of character slots to a good degree.

Tempy · Feb 27, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

How about instead of ascension or age...character must have completed at least one campaign, to be able to take advantage of unlocked areas/skills?

Str0b0 · Feb 27, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

It's not that bad really. I mean it can get a little annoying but I have 3 accounts with 12 slots per account for a total of 36 characters. Of those 36, 30 have finished Prophecies and Factions but only 2 have finished all three campaigns. The other 6 are mules.

Zonzai · Feb 28, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I agree that in GW it is a royal pain in the butt to make more than a few good PvE characters. Being a casual gamer, I only have two PvE charcters that aren't just used for storage. And they are both prophecies characters.

I don't know what approach A.Net could possibly take to altering this or if they ever will.

coydeleon · Feb 28, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Perhaps a reincarnation quest by the ascended character that will allow new characters (if the user chooses to do so) to have those outposts unlocked? Maybe make it a mission wherein the rewards vary in percentages that will be unlocked depending on how well you did the mission? I'd say 80% being the max would be good just to make it more interesting.

Legendary Shiz · Feb 28, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Account based PvE titles is a bad, bad joke.

BryanM · Feb 28, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I mean it can get a little annoying but I have 3 accounts with 12 slots per account for a total of 36 characters. Of those 36, 30 have finished Prophecies and Factions but only 2 have finished all three campaigns. The other 6 are mules.

Whew, you is the hardest of the core. Have any sets of fissure armors on any of them?

Tromador · Feb 28, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Account based PvE titles is a bad, bad joke.

Arguably, the same could be said for PvP. You might be the most uber monk in HA, doesn't mean you can tank for toffee, but you still get the rank/fame etc on your noob warrior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempy

How about instead of ascension or age...character must have completed at least one campaign, to be able to take advantage of unlocked areas/skills?

That's pretty much what I'm leaning towards. If you complete a campaign, I think it's fair to assume you've learned to play that character class effectively enough to put in a good show on any mission - especially as you must have already completed that mission with another character just to get it unlocked.

It would also be a good incentive for finishing stuff up. I've one or two characters just to Ember Light for the skills who I really must get finished sometime...

cthulhu reborn · Feb 28, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

It's not that bad really. I mean it can get a little annoying but I have 3 accounts with 12 slots per account for a total of 36 characters. Of those 36, 30 have finished Prophecies and Factions but only 2 have finished all three campaigns. The other 6 are mules.

Hehe I thought I was doing pretty good with 12 characters...

It's a funny thing really....if you would make it easier like people are suggesting you'd be done playing the game in no time. Then there would be nothing to do....and guess what? the same people who are now complaining it is too much work to get all locations all over again will be the same people that will then complain that they find the game boring cause there is nothing to do...

How to solve the problem of people who want to be given everything right away and want to be entertained constantly at the same time? Ignore them?

arcanemacabre · Feb 28, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

How about instead of ascension or age...character must have completed at least one campaign, to be able to take advantage of unlocked areas/skills?

^^ Agree with Tromador, this is a really good idea, actually. I've got my ranger to Gate of Madness in Elona, Cavalon in Cantha, and Amnoon Oasis in Tyria. If it were like this, I would have no problem going right for Abaddon's throat to save me a lot of time in the other two continents. As it is now, I'm just kinda, meh. I have no real desire to really go any further, for the umpteenth time in all three continents.

The real issue with the unlocking of mappage here isn't a matter of laziness - it's really a matter of: What's gonna happen with Chapter 4, 5, 6...? That's a crapload of mappage we're going to have to go through with 8+ characters, and more when new classes come out and we want to try those, too.

...yeah, it's going to suck real bad, real soon.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 28, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

It's all about choice...you can do one of two things...get all characters through all area's and keep getting more characters...or limit your number of characters yourself...you don't have to have 8+ characters.

Or I guess you could be patient and do a mission here and a mission there...a good option is to help others go through a mission as you have all this experience doing it....give it a different purpose and help yourself in the process...

I just go crazy on one continent for a while and then when I have had enough I go back to another and do the same...the more continents there are the more variation there is...things are looking good

Tromador · Feb 28, 2007, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

guess what? the same people who are now complaining it is too much work to get all locations all over again will be the same people that will then complain that they find the game boring cause there is nothing to do...

That's a big assumption. Thankyou for putting words into my mouth. I'm sure that everyone else is equally grateful for being told how they will think too.

Everyone does the same stuff over and over already. Before heroes took some of the burden, monks were in great demand. I've lost count of how many times I've run monk on THK for my friends/guildies/allies to help them along. If the maps were unlocked for my other characters, where's the difference - at that rate it's still the same old same old. Actually it adds to the variety, because now I can run other classes through old content, straight to the missions I really like and skipping the ones which bore or frustrate me.

Stuff to do? Of course there will be. Working to the consensus that a goal (such as completing a campaign) is required before the unlocks apply to that character means that you still have to work characters. My assassin is now at Shiro, once I've killed him, it would be nice to be able to skip straight into the level 20 Tyrian areas, without paying a runner and without going through all the 6 player mid-level Krytan and Maguuma missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Or I guess you could be patient and do a mission here and a mission there...a good option is to help others go through a mission as you have all this experience doing it...

I hope you aren't implying that people like myself don't help others. I'll assume not.

In any event, come down from your ivory tower and face reality. Even though Chapter 4 has been delayed, ANet have stated a policy of new expansions every 6 months. There simply won't be time to get all characters through all campaigns. One could concentrate on just a few, however it would be nice to have the option to experience all aspects of the game - variety is the spice of life and what keeps the game new. It is in fact the nature of the beast that playing the same class over and over is what will make it dull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

It's all about choice... ...things are looking good

It is all about choice. If you want to play it all out, you can. Things are looking good, no doubt. More choice would make things better, though.

derrtyboy69 · Feb 28, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

How about this: After ascension (or whatever is equal in the other CH) your character gets any non-elite skills youve unlocked on youre account. After completing a campaign, he gains alll elite skills youve unlocked so far.

Tromador · Feb 28, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

All unlocked non-elites are already available for all characters from the skill trainers.

Do you mean they should be immediately available to the new character (ie not require spending of gold & skill points) to acquire? If so I would disagree.

Under any system of unlocks I would still expect to have to pay my 1 plat + 1 skill point to a trainer to access elites capped on other characters.